List Mgmt. 2025 List Management III 📃

[JJBagger]

Tenacious's post will be an interesting watch, considering our new arrivals + Jagger.
Ollie on the bench is a worthy position...form not favourites has to be Voss's approach.

Can't wait to see of any change in the coach's philosophy.

What’s to suggest Ollie is one of Vossy’s favourites?

 

[Soapy V]

It's ok you rate him and I dont soapy. Well i do rate him as an honest battler. But moreso...I rate Pies counterattack plan which makes average forwards look good in their side.

You rate Mihoceks workrate and self sacrifice. I get it. That workrate...is that the club culture thing you talk about or is it Mihocek's individual trait?

My opinion but I see him more than workrate and self sacrifice. Just a smart footballer. If McKay had his positioning, cleanliness and mental strength he be a genuine star

 

[marcmurphy3]

I think Ollie should focus on trying to become the best wingman in the league. Hes always reminded me alot of Ed Langdon

15

Ed Langdon

Age

29

Ht

182cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.0

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.3

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

20.3

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

7.5

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

0.8

1star

CL

1.8

4star

D

13.0

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

. Has alot of the right qualities. Should really own that position.

He'd obviously like to be an onballer. I think the move to half-back was about giving him a role where he could be more of a play maker, to appease him. But ultimately, he doesn't have the qualities to be great in those roles. Lacks the polish, physicality and ability to accumulate. He could be ok, but he could be an exceptional winger.

 

[DZ4]

Not all turnovers are the same. The problem with Ollie is that his turnovers always seem to cost us goals or momentum when they happen. An intercepted long kick into the forward half where we’ve had time to set up is not equal to a missed short kick off a back flank that ends up in the oppositions hands.

I like him as a player and he continues to get better which is more than a lot of them can say. He will play 250 very good games for us, but he is not without flaws. I do prefer him off a wing pushing on ball but understand the experiment in defence. Hard not to see a bit of Simmo in him.

 

[sweethoney]

He’s 33 before start of season. Brought over to help develop younger forwards. Great move IMO and doesn’t change my opinion of him and what he did at Pies

Was hoping we tried to get him to help fill the hole Charlie will leave

 

[sweethoney]

I think Ollie should focus on trying to become the best wingman in the league. Hes always reminded me alot of Ed Langdon. Has alot of the right qualities. Should really own that position.

He'd obviously like to be an onballer. I think the move to half-back was about giving him a role where he could be more of a play maker, to appease him. But ultimately, he doesn't have the qualities to be great in those roles. Lacks the polish, physicality and ability to accumulate. He could be ok, but he could be an exceptional winger.

I like Ollie on the wing. Especially the way he pushes back to help the backline out. Will never forget that spoil on lynch in his debut game

 

[Soapy V]

Not all turnovers are the same. The problem with Ollie is that his turnovers always seem to cost us goals or momentum when they happen. An intercepted long kick into the forward half where we’ve had time to set up is not equal to a missed short kick off a back flank that ends up in the oppositions hands.

I like him as a player and he continues to get better which is more than a lot of them can say. He will play 250 very good games for us, but he is not without flaws. I do prefer him off a wing pushing on ball but understand the experiment in defence. Hard not to see a bit of Simmo in him.

Maybe next year he will able to look up and have teammates making space to kick to?

 

[Stamos]

He also seems very average overhead.

Terrific runner, but only fringe 23 sadly.

Yeah, a fringe player who at 21 just finished 7th in our B&F…

 

[DZ4]

Maybe next year he will able to look up and have teammates making space to kick to?

He has never been an elite user, but that will help.

 

[Tommy Alvin]

Maybe next year he will able to look up and have teammates making space to kick to?

This.

The gut running and link work through half forward in 2025 was terrible and not up to AFL standard.

Not only did it put huge amounts of pressure on Harry and CC but it made our forward entries slow and easy to read.

I think we will see a much more dynamic F50 in 2026 with our new recruits and improved structure.

TA

 

[JJBagger]

He has never been an elite user, but that will help.

Rory Laird was an All Australian half back while being one of the worst kicks in the league. Having teammates that create space helps a lot

 

[Soapy V]

He has never been an elite user, but that will help.

Needs to work on ball drop and taking first option. Hoping that our improved development will help

 

[The Bighouse]

It’s going to the major “watch” for me come Rd One or even in pre season

We have made a lot of changes in last month or so. On the outside they look great. I’m impressed

However, the key will be can Voss change a number of key things.

Will he bring in a more modern running, possession game plan? Will he step up and set the standards for all and treat everyone the same? Will he trust all players and not focus on stars?

It’s going to need a big change in Philosophy. I hope he does

There’s a lot based on the players actually showing composure with ball in hand and then executing by hand & foot. Our skill sessions need to be comprehensive.
A few more running types added helps.
Newman returning also helps.

Maybe next year he will able to look up and have teammates making space to kick to?

A functioning forward line will go a long way to ridding our wasteful efforts in going forward. Hopefully our goal kicking is on point as well, some real botched efforts & momentum killers last season.

 

[BlueNath]

I think Ollie should focus on trying to become the best wingman in the league. Hes always reminded me alot of Ed Langdon. Has alot of the right qualities. Should really own that position.

He'd obviously like to be an onballer. I think the move to half-back was about giving him a role where he could be more of a play maker, to appease him. But ultimately, he doesn't have the qualities to be great in those roles. Lacks the polish, physicality and ability to accumulate. He could be ok, but he could be an exceptional winger.

Agree. Elite runner and endurance. Aces in places... wing is the role he can have the most impact.

Just on the "physicality" side of things... I actually disagree. I think for his frame size he has shown an exceptional ability to run down and hold tackles at crucial times throughout his brief career to date.

 

[Soapy V]

Be very interesting to see how we structure things during pre season.

We have so many options that could play Wing and/or HB now. Especially for younger players they need to settle in the one position.

 

[The Great Ian]

Not all turnovers are the same. The problem with Ollie is that his turnovers always seem to cost us goals or momentum when they happen. An intercepted long kick into the forward half where we’ve had time to set up is not equal to a missed short kick off a back flank that ends up in the oppositions hands.

I like him as a player and he continues to get better which is more than a lot of them can say. He will play 250 very good games for us, but he is not without flaws. I do prefer him off a wing pushing on ball but understand the experiment in defence. Hard not to see a bit of Simmo in him.

Played seniors too early.

With Florent and Newy back I'd be taking the pressure off Ollie and letting him develop his skills in the two's. He can eventually replace Newy perhaps.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

What’s to suggest Ollie is one of Vossy’s favourites?

I'm not anti - Ollie, but Fog and him would never have reason to complain about not being given a large block of games through out their time under Voss.

 

[JJBagger]

I'm not anti - Ollie, but Fog and him would never have reason to complain about not being given a large block of games through out their time under Voss.

Ollie was dropped for the first final, and then was sub in the semi in 23. Fog played 3 games in Voss' first year, and then we had a 19-2 record when Fog played between round 14 2023 and round 17 2024

 

[katmanblue]

Clangers are such a misleading statistic

The top 5 players for average clangers this year are Harley Reid, Nasiah Wanganeen Milera, Bailey Smith, Matt Rowell and Errol Gulden

Ollie Hollands wasn’t even in the top 10 for clangers at Carlton this year, you know who was? Cripps, De Koning and Hewett.
Ollie was our 6th highest disposal getter on average so you can’t argue that his average is lower because he gets the ball less.

Ollie was 8th for Disposal Efficiency at the club this year and 12th for kick and handball efficiency.
Statistically his weakness is that he doesn’t have an incredibly high retention rate, but I would partly attribute that to our nonexistent forward patterns, I think if we use him more in chains and improve our forward movement people will stop treating him like a whipping boy.

More disposals normally mean more clangers. A more useful stat would be clanger per disposal.

 

[katmanblue]

I think Mihochek is severely underrated. Not flashy but just very smart and efficient. Does the simple things well with a great workrate

"Simple things well" is such an underrated ability.

It's exactly what we need to improve across the the whole squad.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Be very interesting to see how we structure things during pre season.

We have so many options that could play Wing and/or HB now. Especially for younger players they need to settle in the one position.

Soapy, if you go along to preseason training and report back that they are not training skills, then i propose we start a deputation of BF posters to go and knock on Graham Wright’s door.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Extremely harsh on Ollie. He’s in our best team at the moment, and imo going forward. High IQ, an on field leader, can play just about any role in the team to a reasonable level, and isn’t as bad of a kick as “fans” like to make him out to be. Hes a solid player. Not a star, but not just depth

That’s why he is on the bench

As a team first mentality, (not he’s my favourite player). The attributes of Chesser, Cottrell, Walsh (wing) Florent, Saad, Carroll & Newman much better suit the speed and foot skills, the club stated they wanted.

Ollie is a decent player who I’d rather play as a forward/mid (he knows how to kick a goal) but as a wing/defender IMO he is in the second rotation.

I do like in most of the club videos Ollie is in the Gym working hard, which is a credit to his drive and determination.

 

[Michael Jezz]

This is where i think Carlton are going completely wrong in the current landscape of the game.

Mihocek and Membrey in 2026 show you can have potatoe forwards but be successful if you build from the back half first.

Now the dumb Dees have fallen for Mihoceks improved looking stats but dont understand it is nothing to do with Mihocek but all to do with Pies transition footy from the back half. Membrey a very similar story. Both for periods of 2025 outperforming the much more talented Curnow if you add into calculations Charlie gets so many more inside 50s directed towards him. Both Membrey and Mihocek would be complete failures in Carlton's forward line.

In todays current game, delivery from but half means you can spend a lot less on expensive forwards. It puts your salary cap in order. The new game is overlap run and isolate a free forward completely uncontested so he doesnt need the skill of Curnow.

We are spending nothing to fix this issue. We have thrown anyone back there. A DEan is simply a father son that has come along by chance. Florent another half back example of Carlton papering over what is a HUGE requirement for other top 8 clubs.

We are going nowhere.

I don't think the majority of supporters think we are "going anywhere" next year, as you put it. However, to emphasise our lack of list management in defence as opposed to attacking transition when both are important is really expecting the list management to provide a total fix over a couple of trade periods. That is not possible & I find it hard to believe that ainsworth, florent, Heyward and Chesser will not make us better when I can barely remember a Carlton wingman over the last 10 years, apart from Hollands and Acres for 1 season, spread and provide and outlet I also have no memory of a genuine small forward performance since Betts apart from Wright. I do agree Collingwood forwards are made to look good but when I watch them, I note Sidebottom & J Daicos on a wing and Hill and Elliot making the forwards look better than they are. I have always believed poor list management as our major problem and I believe, the process and outcome of the improvement in this area will bear fruit in about 2 years time

 

[Aphrodite]

Have I stumbled across the Carringbush Board

 

[BlueTongue]

Let's see how Mihocek goes in Dees setup. Light years behind the Pies.

Wish we went for him tbh. Would've been a great addition for us.

I was almost Certain Big Cox would follow him to the Dees. They have Van Rooyen but Cox would be a great FF & Ruck relief for Gawn, Leaving JVR to play CHF and Mihocek to play 3rd tall