Opinion Where do Gawn, Petracca, and Oliver rank in our all-time greats?

[danster168]

It's fine to not like a draft pick. When they have an excellent debut season and are universally highly rated, and you're still complaining about them because you don't want to be wrong, that's where people take issue.

I give him credit for having a good season. It's got nothing to do with no wanting to be wrong. I've been wrong on a bunch of players (Jefferson, Laurie etc.) But I also had question marks over Windsor and was slammed for comparing him to Jayden Hunt but the Windsor lovers when super quiet in year 2.

 

[danster168]

Don't rate Harvey, man oh man, he just had the highest rated season by a first year player in history, should have won the rising star, if he was playing at Collingwood, the media would be calling him the greatest player of all time, had a better frist year then the untouchable protected species Nick, at this rate he will be better then trac, he can do all the things that truc can do, but he can kick, and is a dead eye goal kicker.

Rhys Palmer also won the rising star. It's a nothing award. And no, Langford has the slowest speed of his entire draft class. He should in no way be compared to Trac.

Also, I didn't say I didn't rate Harvey did I? I just don't rate him as highly as others and think we should've taken Tauru.

I fully expect Xavier Lindsay to blow past Langford this year.

Anyway, happy for someone to bump this in 6 months time. Don't wanna keep going over this.

 

[schmuttt]

 

[Young Redleg]

I just reckon it's funny that I get slammed for obsessing over a 4 time bnf winner but heaven forbid I don't rate Harvey Langford as high as others. It just shows where the expectation level is at for a young player compared to established players I guess.

Well tbh you have bagged Langford while hyping up bog ordinary players like Sparrow. Langford's first season alone was far better than any season Sparrow has served up and he's been on our list for 7 years now.

You mentioned contradictions and that's a big one there.

 

[danster168]

Well tbh you have bagged Langford while hyping up bog ordinary players like Sparrow. Langford's first season alone was far better than any season Sparrow has served up and he's been on our list for 7 years now.

You mentioned contradictions and that's a big one there.

it's all relative to expectations and the position taken in the draft though. Sparrow wasn't a top 10 pick. And Sparrow has produced in big finals for us, kicking big goals and having his moments. Sure, we'd love it if he got over 20 touches a game but playing half forward and no cba's I'm content with his output given he isn't in a hunt the footy role.

If Thomas Matthews taken at pick 30 had a career of Tom Sparrow, we'd 100% take it. It's all relative to draft position.

 

[Crusty Demon]

it's all relative to expectations and the position taken in the draft though. Sparrow wasn't a top 10 pick. And Sparrow has produced in big finals for us, kicking big goals and having his moments. Sure, we'd love it if he got over 20 touches a game but playing half forward and no cba's I'm content with his output given he isn't in a hunt the footy role.

If Thomas Matthews taken at pick 30 had a career of Tom Sparrow, we'd 100% take it. It's all relative to draft position.

I'd be pretty disappointed if Matthews turned out to be Sparrow 2.0 tbh. Sparrow got a free ride through the Goody years. He'd need to give a hell of a lot more to stay in the 22 of the King era i reckon. Maybe a positional change will see some improvement.

 

[danster168]

I'd be pretty disappointed if Matthews turned out to be Sparrow 2.0 tbh. Sparrow got a free ride through the Goody years. He'd need to give a hell of a lot more to stay in the 22 of the King era i reckon. Maybe a positional change will see some improvement.

prepare to be disappointed I would say. Free ride how so? He's one of the only players on our list that runs both ways. Who else is doing that? Coz it sure as hell wasn't Trac or Clarry, or Langford, or Fritsch, or Melksham or Mcdonald, or Salem, or JVR, or Petty. or Lever or May for that matter. It's not going to be Jeffo or Laurie. We have about 4 or 5. Pickett, Chandler, Sparrow, Bowey and Viney/Steele (but will be poor defensively outside of the stoppage). You need 2 way runners in the team.

 

[SugarHealey]

lol come on redleg, is it even possible to have an obsession over a guy that won 2 x coaches votes awards and won 4 bnf's? His accolades do all of the talking.

...do you mean the guy that led us down the one deemensional pathway... beating all others because we had the safest method of playing of all time.

Goody giving votes.?????

 

[danster168]

...do you mean the guy that led us down the one deemensional pathway... beating all others because we had the safest method of playing of all time.

Goody giving votes.?????

yeah, he fluked his way to 3 AA, 4 Bnf's and 2 Coaches awards. lol. Good Lord.

 

[TheDarkDwarf]

Oliver, Gawn, and Trac are top 10 Demons all time

Gawn is in the running for the greatest. He may well be #1.

The other two could have been in the running too but Oliver dropped off badly the last two seasons and is gone, and Trac is gone too.

I would have Trac ahead of Oliver all time.

Gawn, very close, the other two, no way, not even close.

 

[Crusty Demon]

prepare to be disappointed I would say. Free ride how so? He's one of the only players on our list that runs both ways. Who else is doing that? Coz it sure as hell wasn't Trac or Clarry, or Langford, or Fritsch, or Melksham or Mcdonald, or Salem, or JVR, or Petty. or Lever or May for that matter. It's not going to be Jeffo or Laurie. We have about 4 or 5. Pickett, Chandler, Sparrow, Bowey and Viney/Steele (but will be poor defensively outside of the stoppage). You need 2 way runners in the team.

Free ride as in got given a game every week for doing sweet FA. Along with Salem and a handful of others. He's had a very ordinary bunch of years since the flag. Offers little to nothing offensively. He might run both ways, but i don't see a huge bunch of numbers that suggest he's even up to Chandler's ability. Chandler had the same amount of tackles, yet kicked 8 more goals and had 50 more disposals for the year, granted he had 1 more game. But still, Sparrow is a nothing more than a fringe player who has been lucky Goody has had his back. BUT, it will be an interesting watch seeing what King does with him. In a more attacking style, will we see a lift in stat lines and influence? I doubt it, but time will tell. McAdam, Pickett, Tholstrup, Laurie, Chandler, Culley etc all in and around his spot. No guarantees he's best 22.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Gawn, very close, the other two, no way, not even close.

Are you saying Gawn isn't even in the top 10 demons of all time? Wowee. I get we've had a lot of great players at the club, but most are from 4 or 5 generations ago. Hard to compare era's. At some stage you have to look at individual stats, and Gawn's stacks up. We possibly had 10-20 absolute guns back in the day, but not having witnessed them makes it difficult to judge. Maybe you know a lot about the golden age that suggests he's not a top 10 all time player at the club.

 

[danster168]

Free ride as in got given a game every week for doing sweet FA. Along with Salem and a handful of others. He's had a very ordinary bunch of years since the flag. Offers little to nothing offensively. He might run both ways, but i don't see a huge bunch of numbers that suggest he's even up to Chandler's ability. Chandler had the same amount of tackles, yet kicked 8 more goals and had 50 more disposals for the year, granted he had 1 more game. But still, Sparrow is a nothing more than a fringe player who has been lucky Goody has had his back. BUT, it will be an interesting watch seeing what King does with him. In a more attacking style, will we see a lift in stat lines and influence? I doubt it, but time will tell. McAdam, Pickett, Tholstrup, Laurie, Chandler, Culley etc all in and around his spot. No guarantees he's best 22.

I mean I'm a fan of chandler for the same reasons. But will you eat your words if Sparrow plays 20+ games this year. I don't think any guy is more locked into the 23 than Sparrow. But hey, if King thinks like you then you could be onto something. As you say this season is probably more open for spots than any other season.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I mean I'm a fan of chandler for the same reasons. But will you eat your words if Sparrow plays 20+ games this year. I don't think any guy is more locked into the 23 than Sparrow. But hey, if King thinks like you then you could be onto something. As you say this season is probably more open for spots than any other season.

If King is true to his word, then everyone is a chance for best 22 and everyone is a chance to miss. I'm saying
Sparrow will need to bring more than he has to be guaranteed a spot. He might be doing ok(and it's nothing more than ok) defensively, but offensively playing front of centre, he's been pretty poor. Can he find more of the footy? Can he kick more goals? Personally I'd like to see him played in the back pocket. I think that spot is very open and he has the attributes. You don't need to be flashy or find a lot of the footy. Just be defensively solid and sound with disposal which he can do.

 

[TheDarkDwarf]

Are you saying Gawn isn't even in the top 10 demons of all time? Wowee. I get we've had a lot of great players at the club, but most are from 4 or 5 generations ago. Hard to compare era's. At some stage you have to look at individual stats, and Gawn's stacks up. We possibly had 10-20 absolute guns back in the day, but not having witnessed them makes it difficult to judge. Maybe you know a lot about the golden age that suggests he's not a top 10 all time player at the club.

I'm always reticent to look at statistics as a measure of greatness when discussing who is or isn't a better player, notwithstanding that, I wouldn't argue at any length about Gawn's position in the pantheon of our greats, he has been an incredible player for us. I just think that he hasn't had to beat much from a ruckmans perspective during his career. Happy to be disabused of my perceptions.

 

[schmuttt]

I'm always reticent to look at statistics as a measure of greatness when discussing who is or isn't a better player, notwithstanding that, I wouldn't argue at any length about Gawn's position in the pantheon of our greats, he has been an incredible player for us. I just think that he hasn't had to beat much from a ruckmans perspective during his career. Happy to be disabused of my perceptions.

No but are you actually saying Gawn isn't top 10 all time at the club?

 

[Crusty Demon]

I'm always reticent to look at statistics as a measure of greatness when discussing who is or isn't a better player, notwithstanding that, I wouldn't argue at any length about Gawn's position in the pantheon of our greats, he has been an incredible player for us. I just think that he hasn't had to beat much from a ruckmans perspective during his career. Happy to be disabused of my perceptions.

Maybe. 8 jackets is hard to dismiss though. Premiership captain. Arguably the best contested mark in the game during his time. He's maybe been lucky falling inbetween the Cox, Sandilands, Goldstein, NicNat era, but plenty of decent ruckmen in the last 10 years or so he's had to compete against. And what about the golden era of the 50s and 60s? Did those players have much to compete against? Recency bias sure, and I have no doubt we had a stack of guns back in the 50's and 60s, but i feel Max has to now be in the conversation for a podium spot. At least a Mt. Rushmore spot.

 

[schmuttt]

Max already has the best resume of any Melbourne player ever, I think he's pretty undisputed at this stage.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Max already has the best resume of any Melbourne player ever, I think he's pretty undisputed at this stage.

6 flags for Barassi is hard to compete against. Legend status in the game. AFL team of the century. I can't see anyone ever surpassing him. Flower is a personal choice. Seen plenty of both Max and Robbie live, and I will always say Flower is the best Dees player I've ever seen. But I have no issues placing Max third behind those two.

 

[danster168]

Maybe. 8 jackets is hard to dismiss though. Premiership captain. Arguably the best contested mark in the game during his time. He's maybe been lucky falling inbetween the Cox, Sandilands, Goldstein, NicNat era, but plenty of decent ruckmen in the last 10 years or so he's had to compete against. And what about the golden era of the 50s and 60s? Did those players have much to compete against? Recency bias sure, and I have no doubt we had a stack of guns back in the 50's and 60s, but i feel Max has to now be in the conversation for a podium spot. At least a Mt. Rushmore spot.

Gawn played his whole career against NicNat and prime Goldstein.

 

[Topkent]

Gawn played his whole career against NicNat and prime Goldstein.

Goldstein not even a great ruck.
And not even taking this away from Gawn just no idea what your point is but Gawns entire career was completely unaffected by Natanui
Gawns AAs came from 2016-2025

Natanui did his ACL in 2016, missed 2017

Did his ACL in 2018 and barely played in 2019

His only seasons he played more than 15 games after that were 2020/21 and he shared AA with Gawn anyway then basically was forced into retirement. So there's only 2 seasons out of his 8AAs he competed with Natanui and he shared them with him anyway

Not even arguing he wasn't better but you say some stupid shit sometimes.

 

[Demon trucker1000]

Rhys Palmer also won the rising star. It's a nothing award. And no, Langford has the slowest speed of his entire draft class. He should in no way be compared to Trac.

Also, I didn't say I didn't rate Harvey did I? I just don't rate him as highly as others and think we should've taken Tauru.

I fully expect Xavier Lindsay to blow past Langford this year.

Anyway, happy for someone to bump this in 6 months time. Don't wanna keep going over this.

Not rating Harvey highly because he isn't quick, that's like saying diesel Williams wasn't really that good because he wasn't quick, foot speed means nothing if you haven't got the brains to use it, anticipation is more important than speed

 

[Proper Gander]

Excellent stuff!

 

[Demon trucker1000]

Excellent stuff!

What do you think about Langford

 

[Proper Gander]

What do you think about Langford

I think Langford is excellent