Hot Topic Will Elijah Hollands get another gig at Carlton?

[Aphrodite]

No speculating on alleged 'rumours'

Thanks all!

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There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.
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Thanks all!

 

[teddy-hopkins]

16:40 in. Steps onto his non-preferred. 45m to a player on the run moving with the flight. Hits the target who doesn't have to break stride.

As it stands we do not have a player on the list who can do that - most not even with their preferred foot.

Everyone can waffle on for as long as they want. If this guy gets his off field stuff in order over the next 2 months he is playing AFL.

 

[Opium]

For what it's worth this discussion came up this morning with the contacts I have within the club and the answer was 'still to be determined'. Which makes sense, a final decision does not have to be made for a while yet.

I don't think believe they would allow him to train for the pre season if they had no intention of keeping him in some capacity next season. It wouldn't be great for the culture. If they wanted to cut ties with him this should've been done at the conclusion of trade period imo.

 

[Soapy V]

As it stands we do not have a player on the list who can do that - most not even with their preferred foot.

Moir?

 

[gab213]

I don't think believe they would allow him to train for the pre season if they had no intention of keeping him in some capacity next season. It wouldn't be great for the culture. If they wanted to cut ties with him this should've been done at the conclusion of trade period imo.

I think it's a matter of the club keeping its options open, and I'm comfortable with it leaving an announcement to the last possible day.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

STOP TWISTING

1. He does need to earn back trust of group. Most know that
2. The CEO was keen to move him on but let LM make final decision. Not unusal
3. Again, NO ONE has said we are not considering him for list spot. Comments have been "unlikely at this stage" or "not guaranteed" or "as it stands today" or "is coming from a long way back". People (including me) have said they think it's unlikely. A personal opinion is not what club will do

I just ignore the caveats people like to put around things. The "at this stage" and "as it stands" stuff is just so you can't be held accountable for it later. I thought everyone knew that? Just indicates the info is shaky to start off with and you know it.

Anyway, I'll leave it there. I think EH is putting his best foot forward on the track and hopefully getting his life in order.

We can't ask for more than that. Time will tell if he ends up on the list.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Moir?

It's a solid point. He's definitely the closest we have.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Only 1 session but a pretty unanimous standout today at training from multiple sources.

 

[LemmingMaster]

His ability is never the real question, it is the off field issues.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Moir?

Yeah nah.

Teddy said that "Lij steps onto his non-preferred. 45m to a player on the run moving with the flight. Hits the target who doesn't have to break stride. As it stands we do not have a player on the list who can do that."

He's absolutely correct. Show me one bit of vision where Moir has executed that. He's an exceptional talent on both sides, but I've yet to see it - although I'll qualify it by saying that Moir plays closer to goal, so doesn't have those opportunities.

Personally I'd love to see Moir and Lij line up as our half forwards. Being able to go on either side equally as proficient is extremely underrated. Having one is an advantage, having two is a weapon.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Yeah nah.

Teddy said that "Lij steps onto his non-preferred. 45m to a player on the run moving with the flight. Hits the target who doesn't have to break stride. As it stands we do not have a player on the list who can do that."

He's absolutely correct. Show me one bit of vision where Moir has executed that. He's an exceptional talent on both sides, but I've yet to see it - although I'll qualify it by saying that Moir plays closer to goal, so doesn't have those opportunities.

Personally I'd love to see Moir and Lij line up as our half forwards. Being able to go on either side equally as proficient is extremely underrated. Having one is an advantage, having two is a weapon.

The only problem with Moir is nobody knows which is his non-preferred!! I do rate him highly but as you point out smaller sample size.

Love watching Ison kick the ball. That smooth low action - very impressed. Seems very one sided though.

There was a bit of vision of Acres missing his target on a 20m kick by about 20m.... it wasn't even in a contested drill. If we can't join the dots between watching that and our horror f50 entries then we've got bigger issues.

Acres is a lovely bloke.

Provides the contrast to EH.

 

[DZ4]

His ability is never the real question, it is the off field issues.

It is still so baffling to me that these off field issues were bad enough to see him delisted with a year left to go on his contract (despite his talent), but not bad enough for him to be kicked out of the club completely. He is still training, still reportedly living with a few of the players, plenty more of them associate with him outside of footy.

The rumours of him still being a long way off a list spot despite his training efforts makes me think it’s a massive and unforgivable dispute between Lij and a coach/staff member, and the decision to allow him to train for a spot is merely one to appease the players who have no issue with him. He has obviously had other issues in the past, some may still be present, but I don’t think any of those issues warrant this handling of the situation. It just doesn’t make sense.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

It is still so baffling to me that these off field issues were bad enough to see him delisted with a year left to go on his contract (despite his talent), but not bad enough for him to be kicked out of the club completely. He is still training, still reportedly living with a few of the players, plenty more of them associate with him outside of footy.

The rumours of him still being a long way off a list spot despite his training efforts makes me think it’s a massive and unforgivable dispute between Lij and a coach/staff member, and the decision to allow him to train for a spot is merely one to appease the players who have no issue with him. He has obviously had other issues in the past, some may still be present, but I don’t think any of those issues warrant this handling of the situation. It just doesn’t make sense.

I think the club being desperate for list spots also played a part.

I don't disagree with the clubs handling of the situation though. It needs to sink in with Elijah that he can't take his career for granted. He should never be signed to more than a 1 year contract ever again.

 

[marcmurphy3]

I think the club being desperate for list spots also played a part.

I don't disagree with the clubs handling of the situation though. It needs to sink in with Elijah that he can't take his career for granted. He should never be signed to more than a 1 year contract ever again.

Thats not really realistic. If he has a good year he'll get 3-4 year offers from other clubs. There is 0 chance he will be on 1-year contracts for the rest of his career.

 

[The Bighouse]

The only problem with Moir is nobody knows which is his non-preferred!! I do rate him highly but as you point out smaller sample size.

Love watching Ison kick the ball. That smooth low action - very impressed. Seems very one sided though.

There was a bit of vision of Acres missing his target on a 20m kick by about 20m.... it wasn't even in a contested drill. If we can't join the dots between watching that and our horror f50 entries then we've got bigger issues.

Acres is a lovely bloke.

Provides the contrast to EH.

BA was dropping the 3’s in hoops on the training camp. Equate that to your kicking please.

We have to be prioritising kicking ability this season to stop the momentum killers with our ball use. EH a welcome addition.

 

[MPH78]

BA was dropping the 3’s in hoops on the training camp. Equate that to your kicking please.

We have to be prioritising kicking ability this season to stop the momentum killers with our ball use. EH a welcome addition.

I saw that too and thought the exact same thing! Draining 3s but butchers the footy.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Lol. What a take. Elijah right now is the perfect example of what it looks like when natural talent can’t cover for all the other critically important things that go into a footy career (or any career, for that matter).

White’s game against Hawthorn late in the season alone was enough to get me genuinely interested in what he can become.

What’s actually a joke is how many people are willing to gloss over the merits of EH being at the club purely because of his talent. How the **** are you supposed to build a strong culture when you give blokes a free pass on the fundamentals just because they’re talented?

I’m happy to see EH get another go if he earns it but why does his pathway back have to be through the AFL? So what if he had a year in the twos so both he and the club can see if there’s something to work with moving forward.

Talent means nothing if it’s not underpinned by the important stuff.

On White:

If he gets another spot, the odds are very high that the outcome is 15-25 senior games over the next 3 years and then he's delisted again and nobody batts an eye. He is handy depth, with probably something in the 1-5% range chance of becoming a long term starting 23 player. That still puts him in the top 1% or whatever of footy players in the country. He's not a hack or a spud or any of that nonsense. But he is not a standout amongst that elite group who make it onto an AFL list, and if you're not a standout then you're expendable for the next standout 18yo that bobs up, simple as that.

On Lij:

Hope nobody is getting too excited about training highlights of clean hands, sidesteps and bullet passes. We all know he can do those things. The club certainly does too. Doing them on the training track this summer proves nothing. A decision on Lij is much more likely to come down to the feedback from coaches, teammates, high performance (insofar as the mental preparedness) and the like. He's going to need to demonstrate not only that he can steer clear of historical pitfalls, but probably also that his general routine and attitude have had an adjustment for the better.

3-4 months is not a great sample size on that front. It might be enough if he makes major changes - living arrangements, the people he assosciates with, what he does in his time away from the club etc.

A VFL contract would absolutely be a viable option. It does, however, come with risk. If we leave him in the VFL and force him to walk the straight and narrow for 12 months or two years, then there is every chance another club comes to the table and offers him a DFA or SSP or MSD spot. The sooner we sign him, the greater the risk that he's not actually ready for it. The longer we wait, the greater the risk someone sees what we're also waiting to see and grabs him from under our noses.

I don't think we'll get any hints on which way the club are gonna go until they release the statement on who has been signed. Track form is effectively irrelevant.

My gut feel is that we'll give Lij the nod, as long as he doesn't screw it up between here and February. The reality now is that he could slip up any time from here on out.

We could give him two years in the VFL, he could be a model citizen that whole time, and then screw the pooch right after we re-sign him. Or he could spend 5 years on the senior list without an incident and then relapse in whatever fashion.

The "risk" is never going away. If we're "considering" him, as we clearly are, do it with him on the list on rolling one-year deals that are heavily incentive-based. He slips again, he's gone and we move on. If we, or he, are not prepared to do that now, then we may as well never be, and it would be better for both parties to just call it a day.

 

[DollarsandSense]

This will be an interesting 8 weeks or so until there is an answer.
We'll go around and around in circles as the 'ones who know' or the 'ones who have heard' can't or won't actually inform the rest of us what has happened, for us to then make an informed judgment.... so the rest will back him in, and the 'ones' will still state that there's not much chance...
Until there is actually any real information as to what has actually happened. We'll go around and around.

I for one - not knowing anything about the situation, would love him in the team on ability alone.

 

[Treesloth]

On White:

If he gets another spot, the odds are very high that the outcome is 15-25 senior games over the next 3 years and then he's delisted again and nobody batts an eye. He is handy depth, with probably something in the 1-5% range chance of becoming a long term starting 23 player. That still puts him in the top 1% or whatever of footy players in the country. He's not a hack or a spud or any of that nonsense. But he is not a standout amongst that elite group who make it onto an AFL list, and if you're not a standout then you're expendable for the next standout 18yo that bobs up, simple as that.

On Lij:

Hope nobody is getting too excited about training highlights of clean hands, sidesteps and bullet passes. We all know he can do those things. The club certainly does too. Doing them on the training track this summer proves nothing. A decision on Lij is much more likely to come down to the feedback from coaches, teammates, high performance (insofar as the mental preparedness) and the like. He's going to need to demonstrate not only that he can steer clear of historical pitfalls, but probably also that his general routine and attitude have had an adjustment for the better.

3-4 months is not a great sample size on that front. It might be enough if he makes major changes - living arrangements, the people he assosciates with, what he does in his time away from the club etc.

A VFL contract would absolutely be a viable option. It does, however, come with risk. If we leave him in the VFL and force him to walk the straight and narrow for 12 months or two years, then there is every chance another club comes to the table and offers him a DFA or SSP or MSD spot. The sooner we sign him, the greater the risk that he's not actually ready for it. The longer we wait, the greater the risk someone sees what we're also waiting to see and grabs him from under our noses.

I don't think we'll get any hints on which way the club are gonna go until they release the statement on who has been signed. Track form is effectively irrelevant.

My gut feel is that we'll give Lij the nod, as long as he doesn't screw it up between here and February. Ultimately, he could slip up any time from here on out. We could give him two years in the VFL, he could be a model citizen that whole time, and then screw the pooch right after we re-sign him. Or he could spend 5 years on the senior list without an incident and then relapse in whatever fashion.

The "risk" is never going away. If we're "considering" him, as we clearly are, do it with him on the list on rolling one-year deals that are heavily incentive-based. He slips again, he's gone and we move on. If we, or he, are not prepared to do that now, then we may as well never be, and it would be better for both parties to just call it a day.

Agree with everything you’re saying here, however, list spots are precious things and we can’t have afford to have them used up by guys who aren’t reliable. Whether that be form, fitness, other factors.

I just don’t reckon we’re a robust enough culture right now to hold too many over for guys who aren’t reliable commodities, regardless of the talent.

 

[GoBlues!]

Thats not really realistic. If he has a good year he'll get 3-4 year offers from other clubs. There is 0 chance he will be on 1-year contracts for the rest of his career.

If EH gets through () I think it will be on the basis of short contract periods and very tight conditions under GW watch.

Might be a while before we have to worry about 3-4 year contract offers.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Now that he is a FA, wouldn’t be at all surprised if a StKilda or Collingwood came after him.

 

[GoBlues!]

On Lij:

A VFL contract would absolutely be a viable option. It does, however, come with risk. If we leave him in the VFL and force him to walk the straight and narrow for 12 months or two years, then there is every chance another club comes to the table and offers him a DFA or SSP or MSD spot. The sooner we sign him, the greater the risk that he's not actually ready for it. The longer we wait, the greater the risk someone sees what we're also waiting to see and grabs him from under our noses.

I don’t see this as a great risk BB.

His next contract with us, if it happens, will be his 3rd with the club in the space of two years. He’s stuffed up big time - he knows it, everyone knows it.

I think his best chance of progressing his playing career, is working hard with the club to get on top of his issues. I think there’s also something about repaying the club that’s invested a fair bit into him for little return to date.

If he did get an offer of a DFA or SSP spot I think he would give the club the courtesy of knowing and a chance to match if it came to that.

 

[marcmurphy3]

If EH gets through () I think it will be on the basis of short contract periods and very tight conditions under GW watch.

Might be a while before we have to worry about 3-4 contract offers.

If he gets the SPP spot and blitzes it for 10-12 rounds he will 100% get 3-4 years offers as soon as next year. AFL clubs have short memories for gun players. We won't be able to keep him if we want to keep him on 1 year offers. Plus, hes a free agent for life so no club will have to give anything for him.

Though I suppose that would be a good problem to have. Still a long way to go before we have to worry about it.

 

[Bee Vee]

I don't think believe they would allow him to train for the pre season if they had no intention of keeping him in some capacity next season. It wouldn't be great for the culture. If they wanted to cut ties with him this should've been done at the conclusion of trade period imo.

You can believe whatever you want but The Blueseum has more quality contacts within the club than anyone else here. If they've made the comment that it's yet to be determined, then that's the reality.

 

[GoBlues!]

If he gets the SPP spot and blitzes it for 10-12 rounds he will 100% get 3-4 years offers as soon as next year. AFL clubs have short memories for gun players. We won't be able to keep him if we want to keep him on 1 year offers. Plus, hes a free agent for life so no club will have to give anything for him.

Though I suppose that would be a good problem to have. Still a long way to go before we have to worry about it.

Yep, if that happens it would be a great sign that he’s come good and the club’s approach has helped.

 

[Sector 7G]

Yeah nah.

Teddy said that "Lij steps onto his non-preferred. 45m to a player on the run moving with the flight. Hits the target who doesn't have to break stride. As it stands we do not have a player on the list who can do that."

He's absolutely correct. Show me one bit of vision where Moir has executed that. He's an exceptional talent on both sides, but I've yet to see it - although I'll qualify it by saying that Moir plays closer to goal, so doesn't have those opportunities.

Personally I'd love to see Moir and Lij line up as our half forwards. Being able to go on either side equally as proficient is extremely underrated. Having one is an advantage, having two is a weapon.

VFL Highlights: Northern Bullants v Carlton

The Bullants and Blues clash in round 12

www.afl.com.au

The bull ants game this year.40 seconds in.
Moir won the clearance and streamed forward and hits a vfl list player running back towards goal without him breaking stride