Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[spinynorman]

It's just a piece of ham. I think they'll get over it.

It's threatening behaviour, people showing clearly that they know where they live.

I know many conservatives are extremely dumb about this (last two words are superlatives I know) and the great Zohran response to someone sending him a picture of bacon "That's not garlic and I'm not a vampire", but I think there's a clear inherent threat in how the family's been treated by some of the general public.

 

[spinynorman]

This is nonsense. Not one person has said this on this forum.

They're complaining about women being in parliament upthread, it's fair to just ignore some people.

 

[Saint]

No, universities adopting the IHRA definition of antisemitism could've avoided this from happening, somehow.

For two years an anti-racist movement has been attacked as anti-semitic from all sorts of elements in the ruling class of this country. Perhaps if they'd spent more time looking elsewhere at actual antisemitism we'd be in a better place. Alas, Segal and Netanyahu's comments show where the priorities of some still are.

Can you imagine if we adopted that thinking across every country and can no longer conduct foreign policy because any criticism of any other country would be classed as racism?

Criticise Iran? Sorry, off to court for you, racist against Persians, you see. Criticism of PNG rugby team? Sorry, that's a paddling.

 

[Del203211]

They're complaining about women being in parliament upthread, it's fair to just ignore some people.

Trust me, I can see who is outraged by the event, and who is here purely for points scoring.

 

[kalex6251]

Posters like you and Gough are yet to condemn the shootings or show any outrage about it. The only thing you’ve wanted to post about in here, is about political point scoring or going after the opposition or PM.
You have literally chosen a shocking event like this to occur so you can have at it (again).

You are all tainted with the same brush and are literally doing the same thing as your so called “RWNJs”.

Right vs left, labour vs liberal. It’d all the same shit with idiots like you.

How can you not see this?
It’s staggering.

ill acknowledge and pay my respects to those have have suffered from this tragedy in my own way

i dont need to follow or adhere to a purity test of condolence because your hypocritic virtue signalling idiocy demands it

the point about conservative media using/abusing this tragedy to push their own political agenda was valid

pull ya head in numbnuts

 

[Saint]

It's threatening behaviour, people showing clearly that they know where they live.

I know many conservatives are extremely dumb about this (last two words are superlatives I know) and the great Zohran response to someone sending him a picture of bacon "That's not garlic and I'm not a vampire", but I think there's a clear inherent threat in how the family's been treated by some of the general public.

I reckon this family's life has already been turned upside down and the last thing she'd be thinking about is the haram nature of the Christmas ham which was turned around at her door. I'm struggling to find sympathy for her. And if anyone attacks her, that would show them to be as bad as her family members.

And if you think she knew nothing about it, that would stretch credulity to some pretty extreme lengths.

 

[Del203211]

ill acknowledge and pay my respects to those have have suffered from this tragedy in my own way

i dont need to follow or adhere to a purity test of condolence because your hypocritic virtue signalling idiocy demands it

the point about conservative media using/abusing this tragedy to push their own political agenda was valid

pull ya head numbnuts

How many points did you jag today by attempting to troll more people on this forum over murder?
You spit out the same shit across every thread. You’re embarrassing.

 

[Gavin Excell]

"In general, Australian's don't like hearing about their social problems."
True, that's how we ended up with the Adam Goodes booing situation. Self reflection is too hard for some and it's a lot easier to ignore or undermine someone's experience of pain.

This isn't a left/right thing, I think on that we can agree. It's about respect across the board and setting standards of human decency. Anonymous social media posts and in person mob mentality encourages a lot of horrible behaviour.

I do like the idea of more education out there to humanise the impact of antisemitism has on people. My wife organised a trip for her class to go to the Holocaust Museum recently and it was an experience that stayed with them.

I was re reading the envoys recommendations yesterday and one of them is to have the Holocaust covered at schools. I hadn't initially thought this necessary until realising there is a good % of the population who seemingly have limited or nil knowledge.

 

[kalex6251]

How many points did you jag today by attempting to troll more people on this forum over murder?
You spit out the same shit across every thread. You’re embarrassing.

right back at ya slick

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Hey man, you quoted me talking about something specific and asked for context.

Cheers, but my day is over. I'll try to have a good night. You have a good one too.

All the best; you know I'm no troll.

 

[Del203211]

right back at ya slick

One is posting about the event, one is trying to suck people in by using terms “glass jaws”.
I think that’s enough said.
Good luck with the points.

 

[bzparkes]

Including only sovereign countries we get Jamaica, Ecuador, South Africa, Haiti, Trinidad, Lesotho, Honduras, a lot of micro states, then all the way down to Nigeria at #20 with the first Muslim majority state. And then only 2 majority Muslim states in the top 50. The rest, including Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Peru and Ethiopia, are all majority Christian.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This doesn't include deaths through armed conflicts, FYI, simply 'intentional homicides'(which reads like a double-entendre), so I guess that boils down to how we define 'most violent'.

Certainly Latin America would feature heavily in this list, with all the drug violence.

The data on that list would be incomplete if a country such as Yemen sits at 58 on the list though, despite the Houthis having instilled an ISIS like system and legalised slavery. I doubt any of that would go reported.

Ditto Afghanistan somehow being 84th on the list.

I also think South Africa is probably under-reported, if anything, despite being so high on the list. Massive problems there, especially a lot of issues along the border between neighboring traditional tribes, as well as the farm murders(white and black) that the government seems to deny is happening.

Realistically, any country that's isolated, underdeveloped or has internal strife would be massively under-represented numbers-wise but having Latin-America dominate the top of the list makes sense.

 

[schneebly111]

I was re reading the envoys recommendations yesterday and one of them is to have the Holocaust covered at schools. I hadn't initially thought this necessary until realising there is a good % of the population who seemingly have limited or nil knowledge.

It’s necessary to teach about the specifics of how governments and influential figures use racism and demonisation of groups to achieve their political goals. Maybe that would also shine a light onto some of Australia’s past actions towards its Indigenous people and other groups and be a bit too uncomfortable for a lot of people.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I think commenting exclusively about antisemitism is fine considering the thread subject: a deadly attack on a Chanukkah festival.

Fine, I agree. But I also think it's fine to widen the discussion to another utterly horrific attack on religious believers in our neigbourhood, without in any way diminishing the horror of last Sunday.

 

[Gavin Excell]

It’s necessary to teach about the specifics of how governments and influential figures use racism and demonisation of groups to achieve their political goals. Maybe that would also shine a light onto some of Australia’s past actions towards its Indigenous people and other groups and be a bit too uncomfortable for a lot of people.

Hasn't there been efforts recently Australian education to recognise indigenous history ?

 

[_Cerberus_]

The road to stamping out anti-semitism was railroaded by the Anti-semitism envoy who misused her position to protect the State of Israel and conflated anti-Israeli sentiment with Anti-semitism. None of her recommendations could be adopted because they were counter-intuitive.

Then it turns out her family gives money to Advance Australia who are not very dissimilar to those conducting the nazi marches.

The Anti-semitism envoy is the one who de-railed action on real actual anti-semitism and did her best to conflate anti-semitism with criticism of genocide/Israel and then tried to imply anti-semitism was a unique problem and they should have special treatment.

I find it funny though. Segal says anti antisemitism is out of control, yet refuses to denounce the NSN who are one of the worst drivers of it. Members of the AJA even called the NSN patriots for wanting Muslims removed from Aus, and offered to march with them. Despite the fact that the NSN are anti Jewish.

The AJA call antisemtism an issue, yet post on their page almost daily, Islamophobic content, Palestinian history erasure. Which makes the whole thing entirely hypocritical.

So it makes me ask, is it really an anti antisemitism issue to them? Or a anti Muslim/silence critics of war crimes issue? There are already laws in place to combat antisemitism, in the same way they exist to combat homophobia, racism, etc

I stand with actual Jewish groups who called out antisemitism, Islamophobia, and criticize the leadership of their government and want to unite Australia. Not that Zionist lobby group that is funded to be Netanyahu's mouthpiece, and funded by leading Aussie conservatives, who do not want to unite the country. They have silenced and stopped other Jews from having a voice in this whole debate. Being pushed out by Murdoch Media.

The leading cause of antisemitism world wide, is the guy who has resisted every peace attempt in the middle east, the man who is a key suspect in the assassination of a former Israeli leader who wanted to bring peace to the region in the 90s, the guy facing corruption charges in his own country, who has killed 70,000 to a few hundred thousand innocent civilians in their own homes, whilst bombing multiple other countries in the region, they guy who runs an administration of people not even born in Israel, who openly gloat about exterminating all of Palestine and raping people . If people put him in his place years ago, none of this would have happened. Instead they hide behind the antisemitism label, and try silence anti genocide protestors, by twisting it into meaning something else. Or hang on to a couple of bag eggs to try and paint a whole group of people negatively.

Netnyahu is secretly loving what happened. He has history of throwing his own people under the bus to avoid jail himself, or push division or violent acts. Australia was one of the last countries who didn't buy into his serial lying and lack of humanity. Now he has something that he can weaponize it to try and divide us.

 

[schneebly111]

Realistically, any country that's isolated, underdeveloped or has internal strife would be massively under-represented numbers-wise but having Latin-America dominate the top of the list makes sense.

I think the point was about violent nations and someone disputing that Christian nations were at the top of the list, but majority Christian Latin America and sub Saharan Africa dominate the list of highest homicide rates.

You’ll be safer in Dubai than Brazil but not Iraq over Norway. What it basically shows is the type of religion dominant in a a country is not really an indicator of how violent a place is. Although I think there is a correlation between the level of religious observance and violence (the more secular and irreligious a nation the less violent it is likely to be) but that’s independent of the kind of religion that is dominant.

 

[Bloods86]

you don't see any reason not too?


holy guacomole batman

Can you tell me which crimes or behaviour should lead to the deportation of the family, assuming they aren't citizens?

 

[CM86]

This doesn't include deaths through armed conflicts, FYI, simply 'intentional homicides'(which reads like a double-entendre), so I guess that boils down to how we define 'most violent'.

Certainly Latin America would feature heavily in this list, with all the drug violence.

The data on that list would be incomplete if a country such as Yemen sits at 58 on the list though, despite the Houthis having instilled an ISIS like system and legalised slavery. I doubt any of that would go reported.

Ditto Afghanistan somehow being 84th on the list.

I also think South Africa is probably under-reported, if anything, despite being so high on the list. Massive problems there, especially a lot of issues along the border between neighboring traditional tribes, as well as the farm murders(white and black) that the government seems to deny is happening.

Realistically, any country that's isolated, underdeveloped or has internal strife would be massively under-represented numbers-wise but having Latin-America dominate the top of the list makes sense.

Stop looking for excuses for your position.

It's OK for some of your beliefs and fears, without needing them to be the #1.

 

[bzparkes]

I think the point was about violent nations and someone disputing that Christian nations were at the top of the list, but majority Christian Latin America and sub Saharan Africa dominate the list of highest homicide rates.

You’ll be safer in Dubai than Brazil but not Iraq over Norway. What it basically shows is the type of religion dominant in a a country is not really an indicator of how violent a place is. Although I think there is a correlation between the level of religious observance and violence (the more secular and irreligious a nation the less violent it is likely to be) but that’s independent of the kind of religion that is dominant.

Oh I absolutely agree.

Poverty and poor education is the biggest denominator and they usually go hand in hand.

 

[faible]

I also think South Africa is probably under-reported, if anything, despite being so high on the list. Massive problems there, especially a lot of issues along the border between neighboring traditional tribes, as well as the farm murders(white and black) that the government seems to deny is happening.

South Africa doesn't hide from their problems with violence. The government has at no point denied it, Trump and Musk just keep making shit up.

 

[Saint]

I was re reading the envoys recommendations yesterday and one of them is to have the Holocaust covered at schools. I hadn't initially thought this necessary until realising there is a good % of the population who seemingly have limited or nil knowledge.

They also wanted to train Home Affairs staff in anti-semitism.

The first recommendation is that criticism of Israel is anti-semitic and that they would spend all their time making sure that was conveyed at every level of Government. It stopped being a serious document after that.

Everything else was just about more anti-semitism training and awareness, but the definition of anti-semitism was flawed from the start.

They were basically going into every Govt department and institution to tell them that criticism of Israel is forbidden and if you disagree we'll cancel your funding.

If they changed it from anti-semitism to anti-racism and got rid of the conflation of foreign countries with diaspora, then I could get behind them, but it would just be more anti-racism training for everyone.

 

[schneebly111]

Hasn't there been efforts recently Australian education to recognise indigenous history ?

When I was in school, sort of but not really. I was taught in vague terms about the stolen generation but it was only after school that I learnt about the Frontier wars and the organised massacres of Indigenous people by governments and private citizens.

It was only a few months ago the WA Governor first issued an apology for the actions of the first WA Governor James Stirling in perpetrating the Pinjarra massacre.

 

[Del203211]

Jesus Christ. No wonder the country and world is so full of hatred and anger.

predictably ..... bolt and the rest of the murdoch hate hyenas are all over this like flies on a dungheap

id happily ban the unhinged newscorp reactionaries using [abusing] this tragedy to further their RWNJ agenda

Apparently that observation annoys right leaning posters in here

will cause RWNJ delicate doilies to recoil in horror

this point was made yesterday but a few resident RWNJs took umbrage

but sensitive glass jawed RWNJs think otherwise

 

[bzparkes]

South Africa doesn't hide from their problems with violence. The government has at no point denied it, Trump and Musk just keep making shit up.

I'd say it's more of an issue with being able to track the crimes to begin with, due to lack of reporting, poor support for local law enforcement, corruption, etc rather than any deliberate effort to cover them up.