Current The Western Australian Current Trials Thread

[Kurve]

The watch was found away from the body apparently at the site.


"Jane is naked, her clothing, handbag and some jewellery items are missing. Police delay broadcasting details of the missing jewellery to prevent the killer panicking and dispoing of them.
The only piece of jewellery found, much later, is Jane's watch, a small distance from her body. The rain, relentlessly pounding her for 54 days, has turned the crime scene into a quagmire, such a washout that Dave Caporn, with pursed lips and extreme understatement, will describe it to the press as being not 'fertile'. It does not provide any clues. But the lilies surround her, tall as a picket fence."

Reference: Marshall, D., 2007. The Devils Garden - The Claremont Serial Killings. 1st ed. Australia: Random House Australia .

It may have slipped off her wrist over time and been carried a bit away with all that rain

 

[Molly Dooker]

I doubt it would prevent his legal team from making a statement but I think he's keeping silence up until the time he sees exactly what they've got on him and then he'll give his instructions. They've brought detectives in from the eastern states to help so the investigation is still active, they could come up with anything by the end of March when he has to plead.

It's really frustrating there's hardly any information coming out and expecting when the trial commences if he pleads not guilty, for them to try putting suppression orders on everything like they did through the Snowtown trial so the public doesn't know what's gone on. It will be convenient for both sides but inappropriate, this has been the longest, most expensive investigation paid for by the public, trial funded by the public and the public particularly the people of Western Australia fully entitled.

Didn't know that was the case with Snowtown.

 

[Dan Baker]

On the boundary of a pony club.

 

[Kurve]

Didn't know that was the case with Snowtown.

We got a bit of information and some were lifted as authors applied and prior to the Snowtown movie premiering but most of it was suppressed, over 250 orders and a heap of them are still in place.

 

[Kurve]

On the boundary of a pony club.

Gerrard Ross was found by someone exercising their horse, not that far from where Jane was found. There are other similarities or coincidence, in a case that's full of them, between his abduction/murder and the girls.

 

[Dan Baker]

Gerrard Ross was found by someone exercising their horse, not that far from where Jane was found. There are other similarities or coincidence, in a case that's full of them, between his abduction/murder and the girls.

John Miller Stakehill road?
Abducted from 99 Kent street I think police said on TV

 

[craigos]

There's no way if I am the accused or anyone associated with him that I'm making a public statement about anything to do with innocence or guilt. Could you imagine how much the media would harass you and dig up everything and anything about your past if you were a family member/friend.

People already believe his guilty, much like the husband of Karen Ristevski, there's no benefit in saying a thing.

Also, on the watch, don't purely think about what a watch does but more so that it was found away from the body and what that information itself could possibly tell you.

 

[Two Planks]

There's no way if I am the accused or anyone associated with him that I'm making a public statement about anything to do with innocence or guilt. Could you imagine how much the media would harass you and dig up everything and anything about your past if you were a family member/friend.

People already believe his guilty, much like the husband of Karen Ristevski, there's no benefit in saying a thing.

Borch's mum came out today saying her son was innocent.

 

[GreyCrow]

It's really frustrating there's hardly any information coming out and expecting when the trial commences if he pleads not guilty, for them to try putting suppression orders on everything like they did through the Snowtown trial so the public doesn't know what's gone on. It will be convenient for both sides but inappropriate, this has been the longest, most expensive investigation paid for by the public, trial funded by the public and the public particularly the people of Western Australia fully entitled.

This is his right to keep silent. Just because , we the interested public, want all the gossip, the juice and the info, it will come out (or not) at the appropriate time. That will be at trial

As to suppressions put yourselves in the families situation and what the next 2 years will be like. If the last 20 were tough this will be even tougher. One thing Dan and I can agree on is the families feelings must be respected. If that means 'we' miss out then so be it. It wont be any great conspiracy, it wont be because 'someone is hiding something' it will be done for all the legal reasons given

Just have to wait for the books

 

[GreyCrow]

We got a bit of information and some were lifted as authors applied and prior to the Snowtown movie premiering but most of it was suppressed, over 250 orders and a heap of them are still in place.

Most of those orders related to one person and his involvement. I understand it was due to his age at the time the offences were committed. I also could be confusing two people but suppression orders were also because 1 person was a key witness and needed to be protected while serving his sentence

 

[GreyCrow]

Gerrard Ross was found by someone exercising their horse, not that far from where Jane was found. There are other similarities or coincidence, in a case that's full of them, between his abduction/murder and the girls.

Just had a quick skim and the only similarities I can see are 1. Taken off the street 2. Murdered and body dumped

The detail about being found near Jane Rimmer is slight at best. Gerard was taken from Kent St and found at Stakehill rd Baldivis , and looking at maps Kent St is near the beach and Stakehill is towards the bush.

Look at the map and imagine a nervous boy in your car. Its a straight line to the bush. It was opportunistic, it was done in daylight . I would suggest a local is very high on the list of suspects. I don't think anybody living in Kewdale is involved.

 

[Kurve]

Just had a quick skim and the only similarities I can see are 1. Taken off the street 2. Murdered and body dumped

The detail about being found near Jane Rimmer is slight at best. Gerard was taken from Kent St and found at Stakehill rd Baldivis , and looking at maps Kent St is near the beach and Stakehill is towards the bush.

Look at the map and imagine a nervous boy in your car. Its a straight line to the bush. It was opportunistic, it was done in daylight . I would suggest a local is very high on the list of suspects. I don't think anybody living in Kewdale is involved.

You're likely right. The only reason I had a look at Gerard Ross was because I thought it a bit unusual the police, in the same BRE presser launched a fresh appeal for information regards his abduction. It appeared in MSM print as well and I wondered if, with the new information they'd gathered on BRE they might have been looking at him for that crime as well. It was too strange for them to do that. I drew similarities not with Jane but more so with Ciara and while detail is thin, saw indications of sexual assault absent and strangulation with cord. Same as Gerard. With BRE's history it's a given to assume sado-sexual motivation but I'm keeping an open mind, I think he's up for anything.

 

[Kurve]

Most of those orders related to one person and his involvement. I understand it was due to his age at the time the offences were committed. I also could be confusing two people but suppression orders were also because 1 person was a key witness and needed to be protected while serving his sentence

They're not just being used to protect a minors identity, it's become such a problem down here it's a matter of fierce debate and the Chief Justice has asked the Bar whether its members would be willing to appear in court pro bono to oppose the making of Suppression Orders. Justice Whelan has also encouraged the media to launch more challenges against. I'm having trouble pulling anything up from Western Australia, couple of ex police officers on corruption charges where a Suppression Order was in place is all I can find at the moment.

Edit: Have trouble even getting the data of how many are in place, that also applies to the Snowtown trial. Nobody knows the why of them all and exactly how many, just that there was nearly 300 and some were lifted.

 

[Kurve]

This is his right to keep silent. Just because , we the interested public, want all the gossip, the juice and the info, it will come out (or not) at the appropriate time. That will be at trial

As to suppressions put yourselves in the families situation and what the next 2 years will be like. If the last 20 were tough this will be even tougher. One thing Dan and I can agree on is the families feelings must be respected. If that means 'we' miss out then so be it. It wont be any great conspiracy, it wont be because 'someone is hiding something' it will be done for all the legal reasons given

Just have to wait for the books

Of course the families feelings have to be respected! My concern over Suppression Orders lies in the details of the investigation, it's important to know how he managed to elude the cops for over twenty years and you have more faith in the system than I Crow if you think they won't try and hide their blundering.

 

[GreyCrow]

They're not just being used to protect a minors identity,

I was answering as to the reasons for the suppressions in the Snowtown trial

it's become such a problem down here it's a matter of fierce debate and the Chief Justice has asked the Bar whether its members would be willing to appear in court pro bono to oppose the making of Suppression Orders. Justice Whelan has also encouraged the media to launch more challenges against. I'm having trouble pulling anything up from Western Australia, couple of ex police officers on corruption charges where a Suppression Order was in place is all I can find at the moment.

Its even worse in SA. Just recently there was a suppression on a sex assault case because police wanted to see if the area the attack occurred raised any flags for other women. ie not wanting to taint memories etc

Another was on the ID of the Coorong sex attack. There seems to be no viable reason ( to me and many others) as to why this is still suppressed , unless it is someone famous, which makes it even more silly ( to me and many others)

I have no problems with general ID suppressions in cases where victims may be identified, but for run of the mill attacks and murders etc there seems to be no need in my mind

 

[GreyCrow]

Of course the families feelings have to be respected! My concern over Suppression Orders lies in the details of the investigation, it's important to know how he managed to elude the cops for over twenty years and you have more faith in the system than I Crow if you think they won't try and hide their blundering.

We already know they blundered. Its as plain as day just by the passing of time that mistakes were made. But now is not the time for those mistakes to be aired. If he is acquitted then the police investigation details will still need to be kept secret for the next suspect.

Once again these details will come out, just not now. The idea that we the public have a right to know now is wrong. Patience Padawan

 

[Kurve]

We already know they blundered. Its as plain as day just by the passing of time that mistakes were made. But now is not the time for those mistakes to be aired. If he is acquitted then the police investigation details will still need to be kept secret for the next suspect.

Once again these details will come out, just not now. The idea that we the public have a right to know now is wrong. Patience Padawan

Hah! I didn't want anyone to get the wrong impression in thinking my interest is the gory details, I really don't have the strongest stomach for it. Skipped so many pages of the book Snowtown I can't claim to know much about it at all, I think the movie was worse (on fast foward even). We'll see Crow, the acting Commish has already said to brace ourselves for the revelation of some serious mistakes in the investigation. I was a bit surprised he said that.

 

[Dan Baker]

I was only thinking yesterday, imagining I might be called to jury duty. At first I thought given the amount of research, it might almost be a conflict of interest of sorts. Then I thought, I have never said in my mind the accused is guilty.
I need to hear the evidence before I can form any sort of opinion. There must be no doubt about he was involved. Look at past POIs. Arrest is no immediate presumption for guilt. Only lately I felt LW had the attributes with the potential, but even I knew he was cleared by inadmissible DNA sample.
Never convinced Loyd had actually killed his wife. What a candidate for being framed by everyone around him. Rayney might have argued with his wife, but the Santens were locked in bordering divorce.
When Santen went missing, I was, here we go again!
Mallard, crikies Mallard. Maybe not perfect, but not guilty. 11 years inside innocent of the crime.
After it all, my mind is open more than ever before forming an opinion. 99% of people have no interest in this case.

 

[Dan Baker]

After it all, my mind is open more than ever before forming an opinion. 99% of people have no interest in this case.

Over 54,000 people are talking about Bradley Robert Edwards on facebook.

Less than 1% in Aust, and don't trust those FB figures. Taking a quick look that is probably the total conversations of profiles that have made comments including tagging friends only into conversations.
Not current in discussion.

As for suppression orders, the intimate data is kept secret to ensure they have their guy. Only their guy is going to know the intimate detail. It wouldn't be the first time people have come in confessing to a crime which they haven't committed. Someone having intimate knowledge of the crime incriminates them.

Unfortunately, initially at least, there was a hell of a lot of leaks through the police force. You didn't even have to be interested. Discussion initially was everyday conversation on the ground.
At this point I can only think that some officers were hoping their daughters were fearful enough that they wouldn't take risks getting into cabs on their own etc. There was a 30% drop in cab usage at the time.

It ****** our relationships. Taking a girl home was considerably diminished with someone knowing you. Parents were on edge about their kids going out.

The case was eventually tightened up with confidentiality agreements to stop the leaks but some pretty intimate details spewed out in the beginning because officers were absolutely fearful their kids may become victims.

There was an article on suppression orders and how they were essentially protecting powerful people written a few years back. Ill see if I can find it.

Would a media blackout extend to not publishing any material at all about the case? - that doesn't come courtesy of a police statement, that is. Such as a family member declaring BRE's innocence? Sounds like it would...but would it prevent his legal team making a statement as to his innocence?

Suppression orders being issued far too often in Victorian courts despite legislative change: expert
"Justice Simon Whelan told the panel the recent introduction of the Open Courts Act had not led to judges issuing fewer suppression orders."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-...eing-issued-far-too-often-in-victoria/6608438

I dare say the angle of how it might impact public company image etc are used to implement these orders that are not easy to put into play.

Which leads to, how will they carry out a public trial, without leaking intimate detail? Will it be a judge only trial in the end? Defence can confuse and convince a jury easier than a judge if he is guilty.

We already know they blundered. Its as plain as day just by the passing of time that mistakes were made. But now is not the time for those mistakes to be aired. If he is acquitted then the police investigation details will still need to be kept secret for the next suspect.
Once again these details will come out, just not now. The idea that we the public have a right to know now is wrong. Patience Padawan

I will be interested to know if the taskforce has information that really ties in the previous POI to the case with evidence we don't know about. Evidence that virtually incriminates LW at least.
LW was eventually cleared on inadmissible DNA collection, but the media kept the fire going.

Rolling taskforces which means, if you cant solve it for any reason such as corruption, neeeext! Endless reviews, overseas specialists. Systems are in place to prevent corruption, and worlds best specialists.

They had no DNA sample to find the culprit. There was no prior convictions. They had to wait.

 

[Kurve]

Less than 1% in Aust, and don't trust those FB figures. Taking a quick look that is probably the total conversations of profiles that have made comments including tagging friends only into conversations.
Not current in discussion.

As for suppression orders, the intimate data is kept secret to ensure they have their guy. Only their guy is going to know the intimate detail. It wouldn't be the first time people have come in confessing to a crime which they haven't committed. Someone having intimate knowledge of the crime incriminates them.

Unfortunately, initially at least, there was a hell of a lot of leaks through the police force. You didn't even have to be interested. Discussion initially was everyday conversation on the ground.
At this point I can only think that some officers were hoping their daughters were fearful enough that they wouldn't take risks getting into cabs on their own etc. There was a 30% drop in cab usage at the time.

It ****** our relationships. Taking a girl home was considerably diminished with someone knowing you. Parents were on edge about their kids going out.

The case was eventually tightened up with confidentiality agreements to stop the leaks but some pretty intimate details spewed out in the beginning because officers were absolutely fearful their kids may become victims.

There was an article on suppression orders and how they were essentially protecting powerful people written a few years back. Ill see if I can find it.



I dare say the angle of how it might impact public company image etc are used to implement these orders that are not easy to put into play.

Which leads to, how will they carry out a public trial, without leaking intimate detail? Will it be a judge only trial in the end? Defence can confuse and convince a jury easier than a judge if he is guilty.



I will be interested to know if the taskforce has information that really ties in the previous POI to the case with evidence we don't know about. Evidence that virtually incriminates LW at least.
LW was eventually cleared on inadmissible DNA collection, but the media kept the fire going.

Rolling taskforces which means, if you cant solve it for any reason such as corruption, neeeext! Endless reviews, overseas specialists. Systems are in place to prevent corruption, and worlds best specialists.

They had no DNA sample to find the culprit. There was no prior convictions. They had to wait.

I took that figure to be the amount of times BRE's name was mentioned on a public setting, in full Bradley Robert Edwards. No biggie, more curious as to who tinkered with his facebook account after he was arrested.

 

[Power Raid]

She had been in the city earlier having after work drinks. When you're drunk you feel invincible.

I'm not sure that is correct. I share an office with A lawyer and he said she worked late and as a thank you, her drove her to the pub.

 

[sprockets]

A killer who's spent 20 years not getting caught is hardly going to post anything incriminating on Facebook. That being the case he'd have got a family member or close friend to delete whatever's been deleted.

 

[Kurve]

A killer who's spent 20 years not getting caught is hardly going to post anything incriminating on Facebook. That being the case he'd have got a family member or close friend to delete whatever's been deleted.

Agree yes he hasn't incriminated himself on social media but .. if it was a close friend or family member to delete why leave only the really creepy pics? If it was my family/friend I'd have deleted the sinister ones.

 

[GreyCrow]

They really weren't that creepy. Much worse out there on others FB pages. We are just projecting something onto them because of whats known

 

[Kurve]

They really weren't that creepy. Much worse out there on others FB pages. We are just projecting something onto them because of whats known

If I saw that clown jump out in the middle of the road, I wouldn't swerve to miss it ....