Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[true blue19]

Even with Haynes signing there are some really good free agents left to look at. Here are my top 5 I would look at in order based on what I think we need.

Elliot- 138 goals from 89 games and at 26 is the best small forward out of contact. We need goals.

Bews - is the lockdown defender we need plays and shuts down all the best small forwards.

Coniglio- pure class 100% A grade midfielder. Is too good not to chase.

Day - missed a lot of footy the last 2 year but at 26 is coming into his prime and can play key forward or back. Some would say we don't need any tall but must of our talls are young and havent proven themselves yet.

Newnes- will add outside run and pace. Also I don't think his missed a game in 5 seasons.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Even with Haynes signing there are some really good free agents left to look at. Here are my top 5 I would look at in order based on what I think we need.

Elliot- 138 goals from 89 games and at 26 is the best small forward out of contact. We need goals.

Bews - is the lockdown defender we need plays and shuts down all the best small forwards.

Coniglio- pure class 100% A grade midfielder. Is too good not to chase.

Day - missed a lot of footy the last 2 year but at 26 is coming into his prime and can play key forward or back. Some would say we don't need any tall but must of our talls are young and havent proven themselves yet.

Newnes- will add outside run and pace. Also I don't think his missed a game in 5 seasons.

Elliot couldn't get on the park in 2018. He also missed the entire 2016 season and has had some injury scares this off-season. Not sure his body will hold up for much longer. Kind of like a Daniel Wells type that just can't get on the park. Really hope he gets his body right though. Don't like seeing players injured.

I'm confident both Coniglio and Kelly will re-sign with GWS.

Bews is a father son player for Geelong. Generally pretty hard to get them out of their respective clubs unless they're literally out the door.

Both Day and Newnes will re-sign with their respective clubs too. Not sure we really need them either.

You're thinking along the right lines with a Bews type though. A smaller lockdown defender is what we need, as well as a high half forward.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I'm struggling to get my head around our list strategy following the signing of Cottrell.

Good luck to him, and I hope he becomes a regular in our starting 18 at some stage, but this year we've now recruited 3 'project players' in Cottrell, Finbar and BSOS...and you could maybe even throw in Stocker. Adding five 18 year old's in 2018/19 reinforces to me we're looking to trade rather than draft later this year.

Jimmae and Arr0w can hopefully help me out with this, but with our (Cow's) first pick this year, which is likely to be traded according to Liddle....we don't have currently another pick until round 3, maybe around 40 to 45....and potentially more 'project players' being added. How many can you have on a list?

I would have thought that with the retirement of Bugg, we would have brought another experienced state league player into the mix to fill the hole at this stage, and bringing in lower picks in this year's draft.

Any thoughts on what the strategy is at this point of time?

 

[Eiffel 65]

I'm struggling to get my head around our list strategy following the signing of Cottrell.

Good luck to him, and I hope he becomes a regular in our starting 18 at some stage, but this year we've now recruited 3 'project players' in Cottrell, Finbar and BSOS...and you could maybe even throw in Stocker. Adding five 18 year old's in 2018/19 reinforces to me we're looking to trade rather than draft later this year.

Jimmae and Arr0w can hopefully help me out with this, but with our (Cow's) first pick this year, which is likely to be traded according to Liddle....we don't have currently another pick until round 3, maybe around 40 to 45....and potentially more 'project players' being added. How many can you have on a list?

I would have thought that with the retirement of Bugg, we would have brought another experienced state league player into the mix to fill the hole at this stage, and bringing in lower picks in this year's draft.

Any thoughts on what the strategy is at this point of time?

A lot of state league players were taking in the draft this year. It's going to be a lot harder to find quality now.

Thought Lamb could have received another contract.

In all honesty, going into the season with an open list spot isn't going to be the end of the world.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Free Agents

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-02-08/free-agency-list-which-players-are-in-this-years-pool

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

A lot of state league players were taking in the draft this year. It's going to be a lot harder to find quality now.

Thought Lamb could have received another contract.

In all honesty, going into the season with an open list spot isn't going to be the end of the world.

There is still a lot of quality out there in the state leagues like Marlion Pickett, Mitch Grigg or a Mitch Maguire....even Sammy Fisher.

My point being is that I'm struggling to see what the strategy is going forward with our current list profile and ND draft picks in 2019. Are we hedging our bets now on jagging a Coniglio/Tomlinson though FA, and trading potentially above the odds for a Billings/Martin etc?

Just trying to work out what our strategy is at this point through the eyes of our list management.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I'm struggling to get my head around our list strategy following the signing of Cottrell.

Good luck to him, and I hope he becomes a regular in our starting 18 at some stage, but this year we've now recruited 3 'project players' in Cottrell, Finbar and BSOS...and you could maybe even throw in Stocker. Adding five 18 year old's in 2018/19 reinforces to me we're looking to trade rather than draft later this year.

Jimmae and Arr0w can hopefully help me out with this, but with our (Cow's) first pick this year, which is likely to be traded according to Liddle....we don't have currently another pick until round 3, maybe around 40 to 45....and potentially more 'project players' being added. How many can you have on a list?

I would have thought that with the retirement of Bugg, we would have brought another experienced state league player into the mix to fill the hole at this stage, and bringing in lower picks in this year's draft.

Any thoughts on what the strategy is at this point of time?

I 100% agree with you.

Im a little perplexed about the Cottrell signing. Good luck to him! But i still feel Mitch Grigg was the guy to grab along with Gibbons.

A lot of our mids are young and still developing. Put mitch Grigg in there who has an seasoned body, loves racking up possessions and kicking goals and i think it would have been a better choice imo.

Grigg isnt a fan of the mid season draft so id say its unlikely he will be going anywhere. Maybe each club has their reasons for not picking him. I just think he fits well with the player we require and also helps the age profile of our club.

 

[jooce8891]

Gibb and cottrell announced. I’ll but my bum against the moon if gibb doesn’t play round 1 and get the fig 20 plus times and is interviewed in the middle of the mcg post game with our song playing in the background.

that would be awesome.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I 100% agree with you.
Im a little perplexed about the Cottrell signing. Good luck to him! But i still feel M100% agree with you.
Im a little perplexed about the Cottrell signing. Good luck to him! But i still feel Mitch Grigg was the guy to grab along with Gibbons.

A lot of our mids are young and still developing. Put mitch Grigg in there who has an seasoned body, loves racking up possessions and kicking goals and i think it would have been a better choice imo.

Grigg isnt a fan of the mid season draft so id say its unlikely he will be going anywhere. Maybe each club has their reasons for not picking him. I just think he fits well with the player we require and also helps the age profile of our club.

Grigg would've been a poor signing. At AFL level he doesn't kick well enough, think fasy enough or move fast enough...


But lets keep on questioning Cottrell, who's a dominant runner, for the sake of a player with known flaws just cause he's a big body...

Grigg will never play in a team that already has Cripps Setterfield Ed Kennedy JSos rotating through the stoppages. Cottrell can play along side all of those names. The list strategy is clear, it's a mix of best available and best fit. Gibbons arguably best available and Cottrell seems to be a good fit, young, has talent, needs consistency though. Not any crippling flaws though. Like other options.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Grigg would've been a poor signing. At AFL level he doesn't kick well enough, think fasy enough or move fast enough...


But lets keep on questioning Cottrell, who's a dominant runner, for the sake of a player with known flaws just cause he's a big body...

Grigg will never play in a team that already has Cripps Setterfield Ed Kennedy JSos rotating through the stoppages. Cottrell can play along side all of those names. The list strategy is clear, it's a mix of best available and best fit. Gibbons arguably best available and Cottrell seems to be a good fit, young, has talent, needs consistency though. Not any crippling flaws though. Like other options.

Grigg had those flaws, of course he did. But he looks nothing like what he once did. He has left the top level and his game has gone to another level (which it had to).

You maybe right re his position and who he would need to dislodge. However, I think he could have been a valuable cog in our young midfield.

 

[Laphroaig]

I'm not sure one theory is more palatable than the other. Definitely from about 3 months before he requested a trade to Geelong, the view was that SOS was low balling him to extract trade value, whether that is the actual case I don't really know (and neither do you). We had a poster on here ask Tuohy a month or two before the trade about how his contract negotiation with Carlton was going and he said "ask SOS", although not conclusive, that does support the commonly held view on here (again, a belief that was held well before any trade happened). It was absolutely 100% the common belief on here, well before any trade happened, that SOS was low balling him to use him as a valuable trade piece. It certainly isn't revisionism to suggest this to be the case.

Substitute "rose colored hindsight" then.

The two processes are not mutually exclusive. One can trigger the other.

I had it from a reasonably "inside" Geelong person that he would be at Geelong, and that a deal was being brokered on the sly through Henderson. Can't put a date on it - but certainly no later than half way through the season.

 

[HARKER]

Free Agents
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-02-08/free-agency-list-which-players-are-in-this-years-pool

Very skinny in terms of what we'd want.
Coniglio the obvious stand out and then maybe Cunningham, Newnes, Tomlinson and possibly Ellis.

We can say "let's get a Coniglio-type" another year, but it's simply not that easy. Quality FA's don't come along too often, let alone just the type one wants.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Very skinny in terms of what we'd want.
Coniglio the obvious stand out and then maybe Cunningham, Newnes, Tomlinson and possibly Ellis.

We can say "let's get a Coniglio-type" another year, but it's simply not that easy. Quality FA's don't come along too often, let alone just the type one wants.

I just can’t see a situation where Coniglio would want to come to us when he would have his choice of 18 clubs. We 100% should have a crack though.
Cunningham as a Simpson or Thomas replacement should be considered and even Ellis as we don’t have many good runners on our list.
As you say though, it’s really not as easy to get quality FA’s as we were picturing a couple of years ago. We probably shouldn’t be relying on it at all as part of a list management plan. It is more just a bonus if you can find one, especially if we aren’t going to blow everyone else out of the water with a ridiculous offer.

 

[HARKER]

I just can’t see a situation where Coniglio would want to come to us when he would have his choice of 18 clubs. We 100% should have a crack though.
Cunningham as a Simpson or Thomas replacement should be considered and even Ellis as we don’t have many good runners on our list.
As you say though, it’s really not as easy to get quality FA’s as we were picturing a couple of years ago. We probably shouldn’t be relying on it at all as part of a list management plan. It is more just a bonus if you can find one, especially if we aren’t going to blow everyone else out of the water with a ridiculous offer.

You're right in that we shouldn't be relying on it, although we've positioned ourselves to be players in the market.

Will be interesting to know who else we may be targeting. They don't all have to be guns but just the right pieces.

 

[Laphroaig]

Very skinny in terms of what we'd want.
Coniglio the obvious stand out and then maybe Cunningham, Newnes, Tomlinson and possibly Ellis.

We can say "let's get a Coniglio-type" another year, but it's simply not that easy. Quality FA's don't come along too often, let alone just the type one wants.

It would seem likely that Plan A is a contracted player. In a perfect world, one who we already quietly have the inside running on.

The Club has been quite open about 2018 marking the end of the primary focus on the draft. And we are well and truly stocked up with young promise - continuing to roll that barrel down the hill is a process of diminishing returns. And we traded out a likely high first, which kind of puts an underline on "done with the draft".

And if you're done with the draft, then you're trading for players.

 

[pinot]

Brandon Ellis for his running power and delivery is probably the only one I would be half interested in.

 

[Thehurdle]

Being as objective as I can, I think SOS has done an amazing job. Looking at 2019, there seems to be good reason to expect significant improvement. Although we’ll obviously have different views, the net gains for the list this year look impressive:

Additions who will add (most, significantly):

Walsh, Setterfield, McGovern, Gibbons, Newman, Fasolo


Expected big improvers (age, experience, fitness/body, preseason):

Kennedy, Murphy, Plowman, Dow, LOB, SPS, McKay, Weitering


Might improve:

Cunningham, Garlett, JSOS, Polson, Macreadie, TDK, Williamson, Marchbank, Fisher

Unknown quantities, might add something:

Goddard, Cotterell, Owies, Jones, Stocker

Net Losses from 2018:

Pickett, Byrne

The upside looks huge to me.

 

[I bleed Blue]

I just can’t see a situation where Coniglio would want to come to us when he would have his choice of 18 clubs. We 100% should have a crack though.
Cunningham as a Simpson or Thomas replacement should be considered and even Ellis as we don’t have many good runners on our list.
As you say though, it’s really not as easy to get quality FA’s as we were picturing a couple of years ago. We probably shouldn’t be relying on it at all as part of a list management plan. It is more just a bonus if you can find one, especially if we aren’t going to blow everyone else out of the water with a ridiculous offer.

I can see a situation where he wouldn't want to come. But it's up to us to produce a year that helps him see it.

If we can win 7 or 8 games and be really competitive. He might think "gee they are building something special. They are going to play finals next year with or without me. I'll only help push them deeper."

Th best player in the league, Cripps, captaining him and dishing it out to him. Setterfield and Kennedy being bulls and dishing it out too.

Then having the likes of Fisher, SPS, Dow, Walsh, LOB as support and zip.

Blind Freddy can see a midfield of Cripps, Coniglio, setterfield, Kennedy, SPS, Fisher, Dow, Walsh, LOB and Stocker will be an absolute force.

Then they get to kick it to the next Buddy and roughy combo - Charlie and H, oh and if they need a third target there is McGovern too.

Backline general and captain Doc back to join Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman in a backline most forward lines are going to dread.

Going to be stars across every line. God forbid if some fringe players come on.

And most importantly, the culture we are building. A group that just looks connected. You only have to see how they welcomed gibbons and cotrell that it would be a great locker room and environment to be apart of. Why would coniglio not want to be part of it.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I can see a situation where he wouldn't want to come. But it's up to us to produce a year that helps him see it.

If we can win 7 or 8 games and be really competitive. He might think "gee they are building something special. They are going to play finals next year with or without me. I'll only help push them deeper."

Th best player in the league, Cripps, captaining him and dishing it out to him. Setterfield and Kennedy being bulls and dishing it out too.

Then having the likes of Fisher, SPS, Dow, Walsh, LOB as support and zip.

Blind Freddy can see a midfield of Cripps, Coniglio, setterfield, Kennedy, SPS, Fisher, Dow, Walsh, LOB and Stocker will be an absolute force.

Then they get to kick it to the next Buddy and roughy combo - Charlie and H, oh and if they need a third target there is McGovern too.

Backline general and captain Doc back to join Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman in a backline most forward lines are going to dread.

Going to be stars across every line. God forbid if some fringe players come on.

And most importantly, the culture we are building. A group that just looks connected. You only have to see how they welcomed gibbons and cotrell that it would be a great locker room and environment to be apart of. Why would coniglio not want to be part of it.

Pardon the intrusion.

No doubt the Blues have got a number of talented young players. A key question will be how they manage to hold on to them. The trade wheel keeps turning round and I expect other clubs will plonk offers on the table to lure a number of Blues players away, just as SOS has done. Players like McKay, Dow and Kennedy I expect are targets.

I wonder if SOS will consider a salary dump trade on Docherty (my clear favourite Blues player), given the long battle he has to get fit again. The Doc would be on significant salary.

I note big Matty K qualifies for FA this year. I expect at least ten other Clubs (inc mine) will be interested in him. If he stays fit he will be offered significant dosh to move on.

 

[Laphroaig]

I can see a situation where he wouldn't want to come. But it's up to us to produce a year that helps him see it.

If we can win 7 or 8 games and be really competitive. He might think "gee they are building something special. They are going to play finals next year with or without me. I'll only help push them deeper."

Th best player in the league, Cripps, captaining him and dishing it out to him. Setterfield and Kennedy being bulls and dishing it out too.

Then having the likes of Fisher, SPS, Dow, Walsh, LOB as support and zip.

Blind Freddy can see a midfield of Cripps, Coniglio, setterfield, Kennedy, SPS, Fisher, Dow, Walsh, LOB and Stocker will be an absolute force.

Then they get to kick it to the next Buddy and roughy combo - Charlie and H, oh and if they need a third target there is McGovern too.

Backline general and captain Doc back to join Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman in a backline most forward lines are going to dread.

Going to be stars across every line. God forbid if some fringe players come on.

And most importantly, the culture we are building. A group that just looks connected. You only have to see how they welcomed gibbons and cotrell that it would be a great locker room and environment to be apart of. Why would coniglio not want to be part of it.

While I can only applaud the glass half full attitude...

That's ten midfielders, 3 tall to medium forwards and 3 tall to medium backs. Add a ruckman makes 17.

The 18th bloke is going to be a busy fella.....

 

[Sheephead]

Grigg would've been a poor signing. At AFL level he doesn't kick well enough, think fasy enough or move fast enough...


But lets keep on questioning Cottrell, who's a dominant runner, for the sake of a player with known flaws just cause he's a big body...

Grigg will never play in a team that already has Cripps Setterfield Ed Kennedy JSos rotating through the stoppages. Cottrell can play along side all of those names. The list strategy is clear, it's a mix of best available and best fit. Gibbons arguably best available and Cottrell seems to be a good fit, young, has talent, needs consistency though. Not any crippling flaws though. Like other options.

I think you’re on the wrong train re Grigg. He’s not an inside like Crippa and co. He’s a powerful outside line breaking link player or floating intercept and as for his kicking, he has a rapier left foot and can kick goals. He is a package we certainly don’t have, and need, in fact I think with opportunities he could play the Doc role. And if you wanna flag someone for their kicking, have a look at Vanilla, Crippa, Ed, Jsos, all those you expect him to compete against. We don’t have any great kicks, except for Simmo and Doc.

I personally would be rapt if they gave Grigg a chance. Right age, differences and work ethic.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Being as objective as I can, I think SOS has done an amazing job. Looking at 2019, there seems to be good reason to expect significant improvement. Although we’ll obviously have different views, the net gains for the list this year look impressive:

Additions who will add (most, significantly):

Walsh, Setterfield, McGovern, Gibbons, Newman, Fasolo


Expected big improvers (age, experience, fitness/body, preseason):

Kennedy, Murphy, Plowman, Dow, LOB, SPS, McKay, Weitering


Might improve:

Cunningham, Garlett, JSOS, Polson, Macreadie, TDK, Williamson, Marchbank, Fisher

Unknown quantities, might add something:

Goddard, Cotterell, Owies, Jones, Stocker

Net Losses from 2018:

Pickett, Byrne

The upside looks huge to me.

BSOS and Finbar don't get a look in?

 

[Sheephead]

Pardon the intrusion.

No doubt the Blues have got a number of talented young players. A key question will be how they manage to hold on to them. The trade wheel keeps turning round and I expect other clubs will plonk offers on the table to lure a number of Blues players away, just as SOS has done. Players like McKay, Dow and Kennedy I expect are targets.

I wonder if SOS will consider a salary dump trade on Docherty (my clear favourite Blues player), given the long battle he has to get fit again. The Doc would be on significant salary.

I note big Matty K qualifies for FA this year. I expect at least ten other Clubs (inc mine) will be interested in him. If he stays fit he will be offered significant dosh to move on.

Will never trade Doc. That would create immeasurable harm within the playing group. They’ll persevere and he’ll come good.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Will never trade Doc. That would create immeasurable harm within the playing group. They’ll persevere and he’ll come good.

Hope so. He is a wonderful player. Hope he is luckier than Johnno.

 

[pinot]

Pardon the intrusion.

No doubt the Blues have got a number of talented young players. A key question will be how they manage to hold on to them. The trade wheel keeps turning round and I expect other clubs will plonk offers on the table to lure a number of Blues players away, just as SOS has done. Players like McKay, Dow and Kennedy I expect are targets.

I wonder if SOS will consider a salary dump trade on Docherty (my clear favourite Blues player), given the long battle he has to get fit again. The Doc would be on significant salary.

I note big Matty K qualifies for FA this year. I expect at least ten other Clubs (inc mine) will be interested in him. If he stays fit he will be offered significant dosh to move on.

I think we are already aware with all of that. The clubs focus should be instead of delisting 10 players year on year is actually have a list that has trade value. So if we lose a player here and there and actually get something in return and said player sits 25th on the list in terms of importance then the club is doing their job. In the past few years the 25th player on the list we were getting donuts.