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Training 2019 Preseason

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Verdun66 said:
I think I have seen you or others make that point. Maybe it's just an impression I have that particularly entries into the F50 are a bit haphazard....at times. Do like him though.....
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four every five games. Does it matter?
 
plugger66 said:
The difference is a rookie is now basically the same as a normal listed player apart from money. The players we have got in now are replacements for players injured. Its completely different.
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No it's not. The spp players can play day 1 as well.

The spp it's self is described by the AFL as an extension of the rookie list.

On selection they get a 1 year deal literally the very same as someone selected in the rookie draft.
 
StCicatriz said:
No it's not. The spp players can play day 1 as well.

The spp it's self is described by the AFL as an extension of the rookie list.

On selection they get a 1 year deal literally the very same as someone selected in the rookie draft.
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Yes but rookie listed players are picked to hopefully be long term players. They aren’t picked to replace someone the following year. These guys are replacements and exactly as you said can play straight away. It’s not about getting a long term player. If you get one then great but it’s to be ready to play now as shown by many that have been taken.
 
plugger66 said:
Yes but rookie listed players are picked to hopefully be long term players. They aren’t picked to replace someone the following year. These guys are replacements and exactly as you said can play straight away. It’s not about getting a long term player. If you get one then great but it’s to be ready to play now as shown by many that have been taken.
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I thought the club did OK.
Marsh may be up to it, and may become a long term player.
Rowe won't be a long term player , but we know that as recently as last round, last year he was able to be somewhat effective as an AFL player.
 

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Just to anyone worrying about our defense this year with Carlisle and Robbo out. Go back and watch the game against Hawthorn in round 22 last year. Lost by only 4 points, our main defenders were Goddard and Austin. No Robbo, Carlisle or Brown. We also had Armitage and Paton playing (his second game), and we had both Marshall and Pierce in the same team. And this was without Bruce in the team.


St Kilda and proud.
 
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SaintersUnite said:
Just to anyone worrying about our defense this year with Carlisle and Robbo our. Go back and watch the game against Hawthorn in round 22 last year. Lost by only 4 points, our main defenders were Goddard and Austin. No Robbo, Carlisle or Brown. We also had Armitage and Paton playing (his second game), and we had both Marshall and Pierce in the same team. And this was without Bruce in the team.


St Kilda and proud.
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Correct. Although the following is more in relation to Richo retaining his job it’s still relevant.

Nick Riewoldt today on SEN:

"The best game styles we've seen over the last few years have really rendered personnel irrelevant," Riewoldt told SEN Breakfast.
"You want your best players playing, absolutely, but you can still show enough with the cattle that you're going to have out there.
"You can still see it, it's the eye test, it's the effort that the players are giving, it's the adherence to a good game style.
"You can only base any decision on what you see in front of you and if the players play a great style and the players give great effort every week, the wins and losses will take care of themselves."
 
triggering bro said:
Correct. Although the following is more in relation to Richo retaining his job it’s still relevant.

Nick Riewoldt today on SEN:

"The best game styles we've seen over the last few years have really rendered personnel irrelevant," Riewoldt told SEN Breakfast.
"You want your best players playing, absolutely, but you can still show enough with the cattle that you're going to have out there.
"You can still see it, it's the eye test, it's the effort that the players are giving, it's the adherence to a good game style.
"You can only base any decision on what you see in front of you and if the players play a great style and the players give great effort every week, the wins and losses will take care of themselves."
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He is also the amount of wins isn’t relevant if we show what you said or something close to that
 
triggering bro said:
Correct. Although the following is more in relation to Richo retaining his job it’s still relevant.

Nick Riewoldt today on SEN:

"The best game styles we've seen over the last few years have really rendered personnel irrelevant," Riewoldt told SEN Breakfast.
"You want your best players playing, absolutely, but you can still show enough with the cattle that you're going to have out there.
"You can still see it, it's the eye test, it's the effort that the players are giving, it's the adherence to a good game style.
"You can only base any decision on what you see in front of you and if the players play a great style and the players give great effort every week, the wins and losses will take care of themselves."
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Yep, I also believe Lethers said something along those lines when Robbo announced he’d be taking a break.


St Kilda and proud.
 
SaintersUnite said:
Just to anyone worrying about our defense this year with Carlisle and Robbo out. Go back and watch the game against Hawthorn in round 22 last year. Lost by only 4 points, our main defenders were Goddard and Austin. No Robbo, Carlisle or Brown. We also had Armitage and Paton playing (his second game), and we had both Marshall and Pierce in the same team. And this was without Bruce in the team.
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Wow, easy to forget just how weak our team was at times last year, and that is indeed evidence that you can overcome loss of key personnel, if you have enough else going for you- like Roo talked about in those quotes.

Further evidence of how losing key personnel doesn't have to prevent you from improving (even significantly) is Collingwood last year.

Almost all of their first choice backline missed most or all of the year (eg Reid, Dunn, Moore, Scharenberg, Goldsack, etc!), on top of others like Wells (who they won most games when he played the year before, and lost most when he didn't) and Elliott, etc, yet they improved dramatically in spite of that huge injury toll.
 
aussierulesrules said:
Wow, easy to forget just how weak our team was at times last year, and that is indeed evidence that you can overcome loss of key personnel, if you have enough else going for you- like Roo talked about in those quotes.

Further evidence of how losing key personnel doesn't have to prevent you from improving (even significantly) is Collingwood last year.

Almost all of their first choice backline missed most or all of the year (eg Reid, Dunn, Moore, Scharenberg, Goldsack, etc!), on top of others like Wells (who they won most games when he played the year before, and lost most when he didn't) and Elliott, etc, yet they improved dramatically in spite of that huge injury toll.
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Think they were coming from a better position and have the best midfield in the afl. We have close to the worst which puts pressure on the back and forward line. Effort makes up for a lot of things but class wins over a period of time. Thinking injuries won’t effect us is living in fantasyland otherwise why would clubs want better players. We are coming from a very low base and have more injuries than last year already and I’m sure many said one of the reasons for improvement will be getting back injured players. You can’t have it both ways.
 

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plugger66 said:
Think they were coming from a better position and have the best midfield in the afl. We have close to the worst which puts pressure on the back and forward line. Effort makes up for a lot of things but class wins over a period of time. Thinking injuries won’t effect us is living in fantasyland otherwise why would clubs want better players. We are coming from a very low base and have more injuries than last year already and I’m sure many said one of the reasons for improvement will be getting back injured players. You can’t have it both ways.
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This time last year, Collingwood didn't have the best midfield in the comp. They had a bunch of underperforming his draft picks/costly trades and they all clicked last year. Pendles was being discussed as no longer being elite, Treloar was no more than an average player, Sidebottom was a good midfield who had never been discussed in the top bracket, Taylor Adams couldn't hit the side of a bus, Phillips was a nobody. It goes on. But the group improved and performed well as a team, which is something our group can absolutely do as well. No reason why these injuries to the backline have to stop us from improving in the other lines and overall as a team.
 
BrutThough said:
This time last year, Collingwood didn't have the best midfield in the comp. They had a bunch of underperforming his draft picks/costly trades and they all clicked last year. Pendles was being discussed as no longer being elite, Treloar was no more than an average player, Sidebottom was a good midfield who had never been discussed in the top bracket, Taylor Adams couldn't hit the side of a bus, Phillips was a nobody. It goes on. But the group improved and performed well as a team, which is something our group can absolutely do as well. No reason why these injuries to the backline have to stop us from improving in the other lines and overall as a team.
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Got to say I couldn’t disagree more on the midfield this time last year. You lost with Pendles and got worse calling treloar average
 
plugger66 said:
Got to say I couldn’t disagree more on the midfield this time last year. You lost with Pendles and got worse calling treloar average
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There was a lot of talk around last pre season that Pendles was no longer an A grade midfielder. Treloar is a good player but took a big step forward last year in terms of actually influencing games instead of just accumulating. He wouldn't have been considered in that top group of midfielders because he lacked a lot of polish in games. Plus, I feel with him because he regularly does interviews, he was perceived to be a better player than he was actually producing.
 
triggering bro said:
From what I recall Collingwood’s midfield either last year or the year before was ranked the highest by champion data. But where they fell down was in the front & back half. They were in a similar position to the Bulldogs this year.
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That would have been entering the 2017 season. Geelong was ranked as the best last year.
 

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BrutThough said:
There was a lot of talk around last pre season that Pendles was no longer an A grade midfielder. Treloar is a good player but took a big step forward last year in terms of actually influencing games instead of just accumulating. He wouldn't have been considered in that top group of midfielders because he lacked a lot of polish in games. Plus, I feel with him because he regularly does interviews, he was perceived to be a better player than he was actually producing.
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Pendles is still an A grader. Treloar has been an A grader from the day he got to the pies. Even Adams has been better than Good. Sidebottom has always been A grade or very close it. Grundy was very close to the top 3 rucks in the AFL last year. Their depth in the last few years has been unbelievable in that area. They finally got it all together. I don't think anyone rates our midfield better than bottom 4 now and that is with Hanners. We dont even have a proper ruckman. As I effort can get you so far but class matters over a year. Injuries have to hurt otherwise we wouldn't care.
 
triggering bro said:
You are probably right. I think they were still rated quite high last year as well. Melbourne likewise.
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They wouldnt have been at the bottom, but there were a lot of question marks about the group heading into last year. Having Sidebottom and Treloar (before his injury) have career best seasons, Pendles back to his best, Adams improve his skills and unearthing players like Phillips, Sier, Stephenson to instantly look like guns wouldn't have been expected before the season started.
 
BrutThough said:
They wouldnt have been at the bottom, but there were a lot of question marks about the group heading into last year. Having Sidebottom and Treloar (before his injury) have career best seasons, Pendles back to his best, Adams improve his skills and unearthing players like Phillips, Sier, Stephenson to instantly look like guns wouldn't have been expected before the season started.
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Rated 3rd

Champion Data’s midfield ratings for the 2018 season
  1. Sydney​
  2. GWS​
  3. Collingwood​
  5. Adelaide​
  6. Port Adelaide​
  7. Geelong​
  8. St Kilda​
  9. Hawthorn​
  10. Essendon​
  11. Melbourne​
  12. Richmond​
  13. North Melbourne​
  14. Fremantle​
  15. West Coast​
  16. Brisbane​
  17. Gold Coast​
  18. Carlton​
 
plugger66 said:
Pendles is still an A grader. Treloar has been an A grader from the day he got to the pies. Even Adams has been better than Good. Sidebottom has always been A grade or very close it. Grundy was very close to the top 3 rucks in the AFL last year. Their depth in the last few years has been unbelievable in that area. They finally got it all together. I don't think anyone rates our midfield better than bottom 4 now and that is with Hanners. We dont even have a proper ruckman. As I effort can get you so far but class matters over a year. Injuries have to hurt otherwise we wouldn't care.
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It really doesnt matter where people rank our midfield preseason, we have the talent in there to improve greatly this season despite our injuries in the back half. Steven is an A grader. Ross is knocking on the door. Steele looks like he has taken that next step as a player. Billings is finally being played on the wing where he can use his class. Newnes looks injury free and back to his hard running best. Players like Acres and Gresham are real unknowns through there but both have enormous talent and game changing ability. Hunter and Coffield are still young but hopefully we get glimpses of them throughout the season. And who knows which Hannebery we will get.

It's not a midfield you look at and go 'top 4' but there is enough talent and proven ability in there that us improving as a side through increased output from our midfield clicking all at once shouldn't be out of the question. Our backline injuries shouldn't be used as an excuse for the other areas of the ground.
 
BrutThough said:
It really doesnt matter where people rank our midfield preseason, we have the talent in there to improve greatly this season despite our injuries in the back half. Steven is an A grader. Ross is knocking on the door. Steele looks like he has taken that next step as a player. Billings is finally being played on the wing where he can use his class. Newnes looks injury free and back to his hard running best. Players like Acres and Gresham are real unknowns through there but both have enormous talent and game changing ability. Hunter and Coffield are still young but hopefully we get glimpses of them throughout the season. And who knows which Hannebery we will get.

It's not a midfield you look at and go 'top 4' but there is enough talent and proven ability in there that us improving as a side through increased output from our midfield clicking all at once shouldn't be out of the question. Our backline injuries shouldn't be used as an excuse for the other areas of the ground.
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So are you actually injuries don’t matter? You do realise we have clearly the worst ruck stocks in the afl. Last time I looked they were 25% of the midfield. We need a huge improvement just to win 3 or 4 extra games because injuries do matter no matter how much spin you put on it
 

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