Autopsy Rd 4 - Massive choke - Bottomed out again.

[BLUEALLTHRU]

You have **** all to complain about! I never get to see em live and I pay don't worry about that!

 

[Bluezer]

Just way too many passengers, sort out selection ffs sake and don’t pick blokes who couldn’t hit Bunnings from the sausage sizzle.

Kreuzer back is so so important. Kennedy is a must, we carry too many 65kg kids in the middle, Jsos at least gives a contest and 110% and we miss his mongrel. I look at today’s game and can’t see how these 3 would not improve us by 5goals.

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Our defensive setup is good. It's been pretty consistent across the first four games and through the pre-season too. I don't think that needs any significant work put into it.

Pretty much every training session for the rest of the year needs to consist of skills practice and match sim of the front half of the ground. It's all about how we use the ball, the decisions made when going forward and the system the forwards have between each other (including the smalls).

Bookmark this post - I reckon by mid-season we will be winning every second game on average and end up with the 6-7 wins we were hoping for just in that period. Might jag one or two before then too. We'll get there.

I just watched the game again. We clearly have the basis for a solid defence and we get enough off the ball, win enough clearances etc. The issue is forward 50 delivery. I agree this has to be the area of focus. Bolton has won what 3 of 35 or something like that? No coach in history has had that poor of a start to their careers and come back from it. I watched his body language in the replay and in the last 10 minutes he just looked lost. It is the same look when teams get a run on against us. I really hope he turns it around. To me winning 5 games for the year is enough to get him a run next year with new assistants. Anything less and he goes.

 

[carlton2dabone]

I’ll say it again.. Bolton has no discernible game plan.

It’s chaos out on the field, players allowed to do whatever they want as long as they move it along the boundary line.

The team has no idea of any systematic ball movement, forwards have no idea of where to present because they have no idea where we are moving the ball to.

 

[CFC18]

Just on the commentary regarding Dow's kicking.

He doesn't need to be a great kick. He just needs to hit the simple ones.

His stoppage work is becoming elite. The breakaway clearances from the centre square are game changing and he's doing this more and more frequently. He just needs to hit those targets when he's under no pressure.

In another season this won't be an issue.

He was in two minds I think when he overcooked the pass to Gov. He was shaping to have a shot but then tried to do the percentage play when he saw Gov leading at him. At that point though he was too close to hit up a pass at full tilt, many players would overcook it. As for the set shot, Cripps was woeful for his first few years, he's just feeling the pressure.

You're spot on that his stopage work is showing huge potential. The pass inboard was a shocker but it was also Dow that got our final clearance that may have won us the game had Murph connected.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

A different coach? My mind has always been stay the course, don’t implode and react like we’ve done in the past. But a little voice is starting to whisper in my head and I’m trying to get rid of it. We need wins.

there is simply no mitigating circumstances that can justify 3 wins from 35 games and not scoring 100 points in even longer. essendon had a whole team suspended and did better than that and gold coast did better than that in their first year.

 

[gbatman]

Need to consider not pressing back as hard and trying to open the midfield up more. Get our tall forwards spread out and some deep and try and run and kick the ball through the midfield quicker from the rebound. We're playing really defensive and that's ok when you have a weak side but I think it's worth a shot. We got cleaned up a few times last season trying to be attacking. Maybe it's time to go back to that.

 

[Smegger]

How is that Journey going for you by the way? 25 years is some journey, you should write a book, noo, an epic!

Thank christ I don't watch this game anymore or ever contribute to this board.

You have my sympathy btw, maybe next year...right?

Hang in there guys, its the journey don't you know!

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

You might surprised to hear that I don't feel like a lessor person if we lose and I don't feel like a greater person if we win. I don't agree with all decisions made by the MC and I do have questions regarding coaching and game plan - but these can only be answered with enough time and evidence to be considered.

Teams have to learn to win - I've seen so many sides play like Carlton is at the moment with more resources on field than Carlton has. Wether we won today ( would have been better than losing) really doesn't make difference in the sense that a lot of players are a fair way off being able to execute under pressure or perceived self induced pressure - the most basic skills. This can turn around with greater composure and less on field anxiety. I think it is fascinating to see so many different ways invented by so many players to lose contests and games - this , you might be surprised to read gives me a fair amount of positive expectation going forward - it is hard to play worse and easy to play a lot better.

Of course you and your kind of 'supporter' are not interested in rationalisations or reasoning or facts - you are just interested in trying to criticise the Club or people like me - people who just aren't personally inclined to rant and scream like little entitled bitches if they don't get what think they deserve.

Now bugger off you little pest.

Isn't it amazing JaB the number of weekend warriors who make no contribution any other time other than trying to bring the rest of the board down to their level with their negativity and irrational comments.

To all of those "we are all hurting and don't need to be dragged through the shit every time we have another loss".

I actually recorded the game, headed down to Devilbend to play the back 9, then home to cook dinner and kick back...unfortunately I heard the final scores before I watched it, so could watch the game from a more rational and analytical stance, rather than from an emotional one.

There were many positives to take away from the game, although the most glaring flaw again was our basic skill errors, which is largely a confidence issue. The other was the selection of too many talls in the forward half...wasn't sure exactly what Levi's role was. Lobbe is well off the mark in everything apart from effort, so maybe he was there as insurance...but left us way too top heavy up forward, and lacking run in the closing stages. I watched the Tiggs game and they had one tall forward, and a swarm of mosquitos right around the ground, and ran Port into the ground with their run. Sometime there are lessons to be learned along the way.

Our defence was brilliant...even without Doc and Willo, so many positives there. The forward structure is a work in progress...Charlie struggling with form at the moment, and our lack of dynamic small forwards like Pickett and LeBois are crippling us. Our midfield is where we are so young and inexperienced, so that's where the improvement will come over time.

It's not all doom and gloom....and for those supporters who say they have jumped off board....take a few deep breaths, settle down, and keep following our great club...there's always next week, next month and next year. You're either all in or all out.

I keep myself in check by not looking at the now, but what we will look like when our young guys mature, so we can mix it up with the big boys.

Harks was saying that SOS, Agresta and Brodie were at Cardinia Park today for the NB's game. I'm fairly confident they weren't all there just to cheer on SOS's kids.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Far far better? You do realise we had a percentage of 55 last year dont you? As in we were more than double most games.

because the team is much better than last year. at year 4 in the rebuild we really need to set the bar higher than 'at least we didn't lose by 100'

 

[CFC18]

Need to consider not pressing back as hard and trying to open the midfield up more. Get our tall forwards spread out and some deep and try and run and kick the ball through the midfield quicker from the rebound. We're playing really defensive and that's ok when you have a weak side but I think it's worth a shot. We got cleaned up a few times last season trying to be attacking. Maybe it's time to go back to that.

Until we start using the middle more than a few times a game we'll never be a serious threat.

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Okay, my take on today.

One of the toughest games I have ever watched. Standard was shocking and not helped by umpiring. I never worry about umpires but thought they were poor.
We lost to a side on their home ground who has been in good form by 2 points. Could have easily won. (although that doesn't help)
Absolutely gutted when they kicked that goal with 10 seconds left.
Can't blame it on one thing/player etc as their were mistakes everywhere. Both sides.

Can't question effort. They gave their all.
Jones Weitering Walsh & Cripps were awesome. Murphy SPS Simpson Daisy Marchbank were good. Our defence is really starting to take shape and will be a strength
Ruck is a major issue. Lobbe for all his effort struggles. Kruezer needed asap plus more added at years end
Thought our forward line functioned well when we had clean ball and made the right decisions like at start of 2nd quarter.
The kicking to Gibbons when others had made space was amazing. Staggering
Quite liked Fisher as a forward. Could do well with Cuningham.

Our midfield is carrying so much youth and inexperience it makes it hard to compete consistently
Carrying Setterfield Dow SPS LOB Gibbons Fisher Walsh in the one side is just too hard. I rate them all highly but some need to go back and learn/develop and they need to be rotated in blocks through the seniors. IMO we are expecting too much especially of Dow Setterfield O'Brien after injury interrupted pre seasons. Gibbons is simply in the wrong position.
Issue is we don't have much else. Kennedy didn't play today
We desperately need some extra physicality around the ball. Badly. Kruezer will help
Each week we seem to be carrying 4-5 players as virtual passengers and you can't do that and win
Young players fatigue quickly and it causes disposal and leg speed issues.

I trust there will be a bit of soul searching this week and their should be.

Bottom line is it was a frustrating day but doesn't change anything for me
Still developing, still be ups and downs
People will be questioning the coach but I can't yet. They are obviously playing for him and as I have said I can't judge him until he has the cattle. At the moment too many under 50 game players to expect too much. That's reality
He won't be sacked and neither will anyone else. That's old Carlton

This years recruiting needs to focus on the 24-28 year group. We are lacking that group badly and it's costing us in so many areas.

As I have said all along that I will judge us properly at the end of the year. IMO the talent is there and its just time and development. Not a week or a month but 3-4 years is how long it takes. Weitering today is a great example. Even Charlie & McKay are still very much finding their way and inconsistent

Kruezer Cuningham maybe Jack back next week will really help as will another week of cohesion for the forwards. Williamson Stocker TDK Kennedy are players we can look forward to and we miss Docherty.

What I hope now is Bolton Judd Lloyd the coaching staff continue to assess, stick together, look at everything and improve. It's ugly at the moment but if you look at it individually we have improved a lot. It now just needs to continue to develop and gel.

The LIST REBUILD only finished last November and now ist about development and filling in the gaps. Phase Two.

I still have no doubt it will turn.

Go Blues

Ok I have watched the replay and reading through this thread. Sorry but what you are saying is nonsense - it is excuse making and head in the sand of the highest order. It is this type of thinking that IMHO breeds a losing culture and I hope it is no where near our side.

When you look at Brisbane, who started their rebuild at the same time and arguably had less favourable picks, they have gone well past us. Fagan actually started the year after Bolts and has turned Brisbane around quicker. Then look at StKilda, who most of us thought were a joke in the off season. Richardson is getting better results out of a list without the same talent as ours. Their senior players are nothing special. Then the joke of all jokes, the Gold Coast, who many said were the worst list in history. They lost both of their captains last year and are 3-1. Could you imagine taking Cripps out of our side?

I posted earlier we needed to consider whether it is recruiting or coaching or both that is the issue. Having re-watched the game and thought more deeply, I have concluded it is clearly coaching. Our list is very exciting - Cripps is a top 5 player in the Competition. Jones and Weitering are gun defenders. Curnow, Mckay and McGovern on paper is a great forward line. We shouldn't be playing finals but we should not be 0-4 with teams like the Gold Coast going past us.

If we let this continue the rot will set in long term. The playing group needs to know continued failure will not be tolerated at Carlton. The time for excuses is over - if real results don't improve then heads must roll, starting with the coach. We obviously wait until mid season before any call is made. But to keep pretending like this is all a learning curve is nonsense.

Has any coach ever won a flag when they had a 3-35 record? How long have clubs stuck with coaches with such a losing record? History repeats itself.

 

[BluesRule]

there is simply no mitigating circumstances that can justify 3 wins from 35 games and not scoring 100 points in even longer. essendon had a whole team suspended and did better than that and gold coast did better than that in their first year.

Is it time to bring back Ratts????

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

We have become a much improved side on last year. Dont let wins and losses blur your vision.

3 wins and 35 losses.

Are you serious this isn't something to be concerned about? Kind of like walking into the ER missing a limb and a nurse being like "chill it is all good you still have 3 out of 4"

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

It most certainly is.

Are you 100% sure? Because if one of our players really liked a post celebrating another team beating us, then I don't care who they are. Show them the door.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Where did you hear this croc of horse shit?



Find me a team that sacking the coach has lead to immediate success? Whereas Simpson, Hardwick and Buckley all had people calling for their heads and the clubs backed them in. They have all played in grand finals the past 2 years.

How much of a teams performance is coach vs players? Would Clarkson be coaching us to finals this year? Even the hawks lose sometimes... why is that?

I don’t know if it would be anymore than 20% coach 80% players.

port adelaide had 3 wins in 2011 and 2012 under primus. brought in hinlkley and won a final in 2013
bulldogs were 14th under brendan mccartney. bring in beveridge and played finals first year.

of course clarkson doesn't win every game. he started a rebuild at hawthorn in 2005 and the first year was terrible. by year 4 what did he do? won a premiership.

i'm not expecting premierships or finals, but 4 years ago when bolton took over we were the worst team in the AFL with the worst list. now 4 years later i don't think we have the worst list but we are still the worst team in the AFL.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Is it time to bring back Ratts????

i'd happily get on my hands and knees and beg him to come back.

 

[Curnowisagun]

People calling for Dow to be dropped should watch the game against gold coast last year.

He is a kid being asked to play a role of a seasoned afl player. Sure he made mistakes with ball in hand, but so did other players. Positive thing is that he is learning, earlier on in the season he was blazing away at goal after bursting away from the centre clearance, this game showed him lowering his eyes and overcooking the target.

The final product is not there yet, but that can be said about a handful of our guys. Unfortunately we are a work in progress and these guys are not coming in to take us to a flag immediately.

These young players have a ton of pressure and expectation on them. They don't have the luxury of a vfl apprenticeship that a constable or the like have. This is the position our club is in unfortunately. I'm going to back the young guys in, because not every player can be a Sam Walsh straight off the bat. Confidence is a massive thing at afl level and the signs are promising, wins are needed and I have belief they will come with inner growth and development.

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

So here I was thinking I had logged into the BF, Carlton Board, but apparently it is the Society of Spoilt Brats:
"Sakc Bolts", "Piss off Dow" "might as well close the club down" "the coach & players are dumb". No doubt those responsible for some of these posts were inclined to take their bat & ball & go home when they got out while playing cricket in their younger days (& truth be told they are probably still doing it now).

I was absolutely gutted when the Suns kicked the winning goal with 10 seconds to go (so gutted it took a one hour walk along the beachfront before I could even contemplate having dinner, let alone think about the game), not because I felt letdown by the players, coaches or even the recruiting team, who some have blamed, but because I thought we had played better than the Suns for much of the game, yet still didn't get the 4 points.

It wasn't a pretty game by anyone's standards (not that too many AFL games are at the moment) however I thought we worked damn hard to try & keep the game on our terms. Our skills let us down at times, as did the inability of our forwards to consistently provide an option to those with the ball in hand. What didn't let us down was our defence, which remained resolute for the majority of the game (save the moments prior to the winning goal being kicked).

Jones: absolutely brilliant again in intercept marking, disposal by foot & spoiling. If you were picking an AA team at the moment, Jones would be in the discussion.

Weitering: also brilliant again with his intercept marking, spoiling & disposal by foot. 20 disposals, 7 marks, 7 rebound 50s, this is what caught the attention of recruiters back in 2015 & saw him taken at #1.

Marchbank: an improvement on his first hit out last week & started to attack contests more often as 3rd man up. Still short of match fitness, but not too far off.

Newman: got to some really good places today & took some timely marks to repel Suns' attacks (a total of 9 marks for the game).

Thomas: he also got to a lot of good places & prevented many Suns' scoring opportunities. 20 disposals & 10 marks was a very good day's work.

Simpson: as per Daisy & Newman he was instrumental in preventing the Suns' hitting the scoreboard as much as they should have. I was a little disappointed when Simmo allowed a Suns' player to take a mark on 50 during the last quarter which should have been a straight forward intercept for Simmo, except he moved his body marginally to the side, allowing the Suns player to take an easy chest mark.

I am very disappointed in some of the comments posted about Paddy Dow. Yes, his kicking did let him down at times, but as a 19 year old playing regularly as one of our starting midfielders at centre bounces, he is playing a role that many of his draft counterparts would only be called on to play a few times per game, at best. The way he is winning clearances at this stage of his career is way ahead of where I would have expected him to be at this stage.

Kudos to Walsh for yet another awesome game & also for getting up, dusting himself off & kicking a goal after that putrid human being Witts tried to take him out. More importantly, after getting his injury tended to, Walsh went back out there & continued to win a heap of ball & mostly use it well. RS nom this week.

Once again Cripps was fantastic, but his disposal is still letting him down at times. I was pleased he went back & kicked that goal in the last quarter, as good leaders do, but I was disappointed shortly after when he marked the ball on 50 & having no options ahead, put in a nothing kick to the area in front of the goal square. There is no doubt he wouldn't have got the journey with a drop punt, but with us in front & needing a goal to seal the deal, I wouldn't have minded seeing him going for the 'barrel', in much the same way as Seedsman did for the Crows against the Swans a couple of weeks ago.

I was going to comment on the umpires, but outside of being totally confused as to why Jones' mark wasn't paid late in the last quarter & why the Suns got a free kick after Harry took a mark close to goal earlier in the quarter, I'm going to adopt the attitude of some of our supporters who are giving up on our team because they are apparently hopeless & I am going to give up on the umpires because as the standard of the game continues to head down the gurgler, the umpires are just staying in tune with where the game is heading.

The umpires were poor, but that doesn't excuse the performance today. From where our list is at versus the GC, we should have been 7 goals up.

This was a disgraceful loss. It is time to start asking questions (not demanding sackings or saying close the club down etc - that is nonsense).

We are 3-35. No coach has come back from that. Time for a proper diagnosis. Give the current team until mid year break to turn it around. But if they don't we have to move on. No more putting our head in the sand and hoping things change. It clearly is not working.

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

gotta ask - has marc murphy EVER kicked fully through the ball? his entire career seems to have either been up and under or dinky chips........

Yes. Watch his first 10 or so games. That shoulder injury in his first year destroyed what would have been a top 5 player in the comp. I know he won the AFLPA but was never the same after it. My biggest fear is a similar thing happens to Walsh.

 

[Smegger]

there is simply no mitigating circumstances that can justify 3 wins from 35 games and not scoring 100 points in even longer. essendon had a whole team suspended and did better than that and gold coast did better than that in their first year.

And they're going just great . Lets see who wins the long game.

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Isn't it amazing JaB the number of weekend warriors who make no contribution any other time other than trying to bring the rest of the board down to their level with their negativity and irrational comments.

To all of those "we are all hurting and don't need to be dragged through the shit every time we have another loss".

I actually recorded the game, headed down to Devilbend to play the back 9, then home to cook dinner and kick back...unfortunately I heard the final scores before I watched it, so could watch the game from a more rational and analytical stance, rather than from an emotional one.

There were many positives to take away from the game, although the most glaring flaw again was our basic skill errors, which is largely a confidence issue. The other was the selection of too many talls in the forward half...wasn't sure exactly what Levi's role was. Lobbe is well off the mark in everything apart from effort, so maybe he was there as insurance...but left us way too top heavy up forward, and lacking run in the closing stages. I watched the Tiggs game and they had one tall forward, and a swarm of mosquitos right around the ground, and ran Port into the ground with their run. Sometime there are lessons to be learned along the way.

Our defence was brilliant...even without Doc and Willo, so many positives there. The forward structure is a work in progress...Charlie struggling with form at the moment, and our lack of dynamic small forwards like Pickett and LeBois are crippling us. Our midfield is where we are so young and inexperienced, so that's where the improvement will come over time.

It's not all doom and gloom....and for those supporters who say they have jumped off board....take a few deep breaths, settle down, and keep following our great club...there's always next week, next month and next year. You're either all in or all out.

I keep myself in check by not looking at the now, but what we will look like when our young guys mature, so we can mix it up with the big boys.

Harks was saying that SOS, Agresta and Brodie were at Cardinia Park today for the NB's game. I'm fairly confident they weren't all there just to cheer on SOS's kids.

Whilst I agree with your premise that you continue to support the club no matter what, your analysis is ordinary. There were very few positives to take away from today and in fact it reinforced what your supposed "weekend warrior" posters have been saying about the need for change. The fact you suggest Pickett and LeBois are dynamic small forwards says it all. You want to look for the most optimistic of possible outcomes rather than face reality. In reality neither Picket nor LeBois have shown anything.

 

[Smegger]

Some teams need a capo.

 

[carlton2dabone]

The umpires were poor, but that doesn't excuse the performance today. From where our list is at versus the GC, we should have been 7 goals up.

This was a disgraceful loss. It is time to start asking questions (not demanding sackings or saying close the club down etc - that is nonsense).

We are 3-35. No coach has come back from that. Time for a proper diagnosis. Give the current team until mid year break to turn it around. But if they don't we have to move on. No more putting our head in the sand and hoping things change. It clearly is not working.

It’s amazing, it seriously baffles me.. Bolton’s defenders will place the blame on everyone and everything other than Bolton.

They’ll gloss over the abysmal selection errors that everyone could see... they’ll act like an inability to score 100 points in any game for years isn’t an indictment on the game plan.. they’ll completely avoid the lack of any game day tactics exhibited by Bolton.. and most infuriatingly they’ll dismiss Bolton’s abysmal win/loss record as meaningless

They put this one man above the pride and reputation of our once great club.

 

[Smegger]

We've gone full restring. Just haven't tuned it yet.