Autopsy Rd 4 - Massive choke - Bottomed out again.

[HARKER]

Everyone that works within or supports the club wants to win, but it is not how you measure progress

How do you measure stress? Disappointment? Uncertainty?

Look, the club will be fine and it is on the right path, but to pretend that all is rosy? I call bullshit on that one.
I don't want to pretend, just because it sounds appealing, but of course one can do whatever they choose to do.

 

[carlton2dabone]

How do you measure stress? Disappointment? Uncertainty?

Look, the club will be fine and it is on the right path, but to pretend that all is rosy? I call bullshit on that one.
I don't want to pretend, just because it sounds appealing, but of course one can do whatever they choose to do.

One only need watch Bolton’s press post match press conferences to see the way he dimeanor has changed, it’s clear as day he is starting to feel the pressure bearing down him.

The look on his face and his body language when GC kicked that goal with 10 seconds left, no anger but more the look of resignation.

If Bolton is feeling the pressure, then it’s a guarantee that others in the club from players to assistsnts are feeling it to.

 

[Arr0w]

How do you measure stress? Disappointment? Uncertainty?

Look, the club will be fine and it is on the right path, but to pretend that all is rosy? I call bullshit on that one.
I don't want to pretend, just because it sounds appealing, but of course one can do whatever they choose to do.

I measure stress, disappointment and uncertainty around unrealistic expectations rather than the reality of a rebuild that is tracking no worse than any other side that has undertaken this level of restructure

Never once have I said it is all rosy, all I am suggesting is it being measured against other sides that have followed a similar path

 

[jimmyshell]

Percentage booster!

This made me laugh in what has been an extremely dark couple of days...

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Given you have only just signed up and every post has a negative tinge, perhaps show some balance to be taken seriously

I have said leave the coach as is, offer him support and only start to think seriously about a change if results are still very bad mid year.

When you are 3-35, wooden spoon and now 0-4, one would think that is a very reasonable approach. Sorry I didn't realise when joining I had to sign up to everything being rainbows and fairies (which it clearly isn't). Oh and judging by this thread a great deal of supporters feel stronger than I do (i.e. want a coaching change now). Yet you single me out because I am new. Interesting

 

[Arr0w]

I have said leave the coach as is, offer him support and only start to think seriously about a change if results are still very bad mid year.

When you are 3-35, wooden spoon and now 0-4, one would think that is a very reasonable approach. Sorry I didn't realise when joining I had to sign up to everything being rainbows and fairies (which it clearly isn't). Oh and judging by this thread a great deal of supporters feel stronger than I do (i.e. want a coaching change now). Yet you single me out because I am new. Interesting

Not sure why you and so many others keep focusing on the past. This season is 4 games old and we have been more consistent than any 4 games in any of the last 4 years

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

You joined straight after the game and have vented and pushed your negative views like a broken record. Go away

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Not sure why you and so many others keep focusing on the past. This season is 4 games old and we have been more consistent than any 4 games in any of the last 4 years

So when defending Bolton it is ok to point to past things like the state of our list in 2015 and the player turnover, plus lack of players in the 24-28 age bracket. You know things that occurred in the past...

But when talking about our 0-4 start, mentioning the past few seasons is off limits?

See the double standard?

 

[HARKER]

I measure stress, disappointment and uncertainty around unrealistic expectations rather than the reality of a rebuild that is tracking no worse than any other side that has undertaken this level of restructure

Never once have I said it is all rosy, all I am suggesting is it being measured against other sides that have followed a similar path

One can measure whatever they want but when meat, bone, blood and ego are involved, things can get tricky.

The 'rosy' part wasn't aimed at you and now I'm left with, well it must be that Soapy guy then. That may be a little true and I get it that we want to see what we want to see, but sometimes what we want to see and what we really see just don't align.

Anyway, I know we'll get through this and we can gauge the frustration levels of supporters here alone, but to think that some uncertainties may not abound around the club right now.......I think they would and should. Can't see how they wouldn't.

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

You joined straight after the game and have vented and pushed your negative views like a broken record. Go away

No.

You may not like to hear it but I am entitled to what I think is a very reasonable opinion. Judging by a lot of the posts in this thread I am not in the minority.

Feel free to put me on ignore if you can't handle reasoned discussion that is contrary to your viewpoint.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Keep pushing your negative agenda and incessant troll like shit.

 

[carlton2dabone]

Not sure why you and so many others keep focusing on the past. This season is 4 games old and we have been more consistent than any 4 games in any of the last 4 years

Because the past is never irrelevant.
The past may not be an indication of the future, but it’s not irrelevant either.

We can continue to say that last year was a right off because of all the injuries, but the true measure of how good a coach is, is not whether he wins games with a team that is good enough to win them, it’s whether he can manufacture wins with a team that isn’t good enough to win them.

Sort of like the way Dew is doing with GC right now.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

No.

You may not like to hear it but I am entitled to what I think is a very reasonable opinion. Judging by a lot of the posts in this thread I am not in the minority.

Feel free to put me on ignore if you can't handle reasoned discussion that is contrary to your viewpoint.

You joined yesterday at around 3pm right? I have listened to your constant regurgitated viewpoint, we all have. Troll

 

[carlton2dabone]

You joined yesterday at around 3pm right? I have listened to your constant regurgitated viewpoint, we all have. Troll

Maybe he’s keeps ‘regurgitating’ his viewpoint because posters like you keep attacking his viewpoint?
Ahhh, whether he joined yesterday or not, his viewpoint is just as valid as yours on a discussion board open to all supporters even if you don’t like it, so get off your high horse thinking your view is more important than his because you remain eternally optimistic lol

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Maybe he’s keeps ‘regurgitating’ his viewpoint because posters like you keep attacking his viewpoint?
Ahhh, whether he joined yesterday or not, his viewpoint is just as valid as yours on a discussion board open to all supporters even if you don’t like it, so get off your high horse thinking your view is more important than his because you remain eternally optimistic lol

Thank you

 

[Metalcrusher]

Maybe he’s keeps ‘regurgitating’ his viewpoint because posters like you keep attacking his viewpoint?
Ahhh, whether he joined yesterday or not, his viewpoint is just as valid as yours on a discussion board open to all supporters even if you don’t like it, so get off your high horse thinking your view is more important than his because you remain eternally optimistic lol

Thank you

……….. cool

 

[Arr0w]

Ok, I was at the Richmond game, sitting on the wing and screamed my lungs out for the team to stop chipping wide from a kick out and then long down the boundary line, so I’d obviously disagree with you on that.

But as to your question...
Yes I agree with your first question, Bolton definitely spent the first 2 years with a game plan that focused on playing a safe chip mark game, whether that was stregthening the defence or not is debatable because one could argue that a healthy dose of attack sprinkled in is also a form of defence, but I digress and agree with your point.

As for your second question, I don’t see much at all that has changed from last year and this first 4 rounds. It seems like Bolton’s defenders want it both ways, blame last years abysmal results to the amount of injuries we had and being forced to go ultra defensive (we regularly sacrificed forwards to send them back to have 7 and 8 man back lines, even had one game last year where for patches we had just 2 forwards at the centre bounce while everyone else was back), then claiming Bolton’s same tactics as last year are producing better results this year as though the amount of talent on the field this year compared to last isn’t the defining factor.

Last year Bolton was regularly selecting taller teams and, this year he had continued that.
Last year spuds like OShea and Kerridge were given games because of injuries, this year sounds like Casboult are given games even when other players return from injury

Okay so you concede and agree regarding what and how we played in the first 2 years

Again, I am not interested what it "feels like" just interested in what has taken place. No rational person blames injuries, it is just an accepted reason, same as why the Crows and Saints had poor seasons last year and why the Lions were so competitive last year on the back of one injury to best 22 in the 2nd half of the year when they lost Cameron.

We weren't ultra defensive, Bolton actually added attacking layers from the first game against the Tigers and heldd most of that structure despite the horrendous injuries, which will be a defining decision one way or another. The game you might be eluding too, when we pushed numbers behind the ball was the last game of the year, against the Crows. I remember a more qualified coach doing something similar in his 2nd year as GWS's coach against the Bombers, when he had 10 players in the defensive end. If you have ever coach, you may understand the reasoning

So given he started with 2 years of being defensive and ultra conservative, then added many attacking layers (I thought it was too strong considering the personnel available) in his 3rd year

Tell me what you see in the first 4 games of this season

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

All his posts are on this thread sus lol! I haven't posted the same shit 49 times on this thread.By the way your post to dribble count is starting to clog up the boards toilet, please cease .

 

[Arr0w]

So when defending Bolton it is ok to point to past things like the state of our list in 2015 and the player turnover, plus lack of players in the 24-28 age bracket. You know things that occurred in the past...

But when talking about our 0-4 start, mentioning the past few seasons is off limits?

See the double standard?

I am not defending Bolton, I am merely stating the current situation, the past is long gone

Facts are, w are younger and more inexperienced than we have been in the last 4 years. We have been more consistent in the last 4 games than at any period over the same time

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

All his posts are on this thread sus lol! I haven't posted the same shit 49 times on this thread.By the way your post to dribble count is starting to clog up the boards toilet, please cease .

Can you actually debate the merits of opinion like a number of posters have done? Or do you just keep hurling insults? The one making things personal and targetting individual posters is you. If you don't like my point of view ignore it. But please stop the personal attacks.

 

[Metalcrusher]

I thought our defensive structure was immense until the the last 20 seconds. We pushed GC way out wide to attack their goals at ridiculous angles. We choked the central corridor to be an intercept markers dream for the majority of the game.

One player I forgot to mention in the positive thread was Weiterbot. Great first half faded then came back in the last.

I reckon last week was a solid A effort of structure from Amos.

Thought the backs were brilliantly coached.

The stoppage coach ….. ummm … that is another discussion.

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

I am not defending Bolton, I am merely stating the current situation, the past is long gone

Facts are, w are younger and more inexperienced than we have been in the last 4 years. We have been more consistent in the last 4 games than at any period over the same time

Is there a post that shows the average age and games played of our starting 22 over these four rounds versus previous years? If so, I would be interested in reading it - thanks

 

[Arr0w]

Because the past is never irrelevant.
The past may not be an indication of the future, but it’s not irrelevant either.

We can continue to say that last year was a right off because of all the injuries, but the true measure of how good a coach is, is not whether he wins games with a team that is good enough to win them, it’s whether he can manufacture wins with a team that isn’t good enough to win them.

Sort of like the way Dew is doing with GC right now.

How would any of us know given we only had one coach to measure that against, like his 2016 and 17 seasons when we didn't have the injuries and had more experienced players/bodies during that time

 

[Bluechip66]

Mods close this thread....it’s a boring shitfest!

Can’t change what happened, So let’s focus on the next game & how we improve.

 

[Metalcrusher]

There is a bloody thread on it!!!! Search mate.