Bluemour Discussion Thread XV - Facts Not Welcome

[Coona Blues]

Tom Browne Morris on the couch saying the following (said source is a senior official at the club)

1. Bolts is over-coaching - a lot of analysis, micro-management etc. exhausting the players (and assistans?) a bit
2. JSOS is struggling with his Dad at the club. Puts a lot of pressure on himself. Out of contract at the end of the year a trade could be best for him
3. SOS wants Stocker to play Bolton thinks he isn't ready
4. The above amongst some other things are causing some 'natural tension' between Bolts and SOS.

Top 2 aren't that hard to believe. Number 3 sounds rubbish (SOS shouldn't and wouldn't be pushing anyone for selection). Number 4 there would always be some disagreements between these 2 so not a big deal.

Absolutely an element of over coaching, blind Freddie could see that. Needs a bit of counsel, a bit of help from his assistants and the "mentor" Wallsy. Plenty of fear of stuffing up with some of the boys. KISS principle needs to be invoked. Who knows what suits this group? An honesty session. A trip up the mulga to play paint ball or the like and chill?

With pressure to bring our injured boys up to speed, probably a tad early for an extra curricular circuit breaker, but we need to take the pressure off all concerned. It is building to ridiculous levels from within and without.

As for the JSOS and Stocker elements of the story along with the "natural tension" it is a crock of sh1t, aside from having some unusual dynamics.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Aphrodite I know I was probably out of line for saying that bolton would be going and longmire would be taking over at the end of the season in my first ever post, without mentioning where I heard about it or anything... but reports from the media tonight on footy classified etc is that longmire and sydney are looking at parting ways, and that bolton is bordering on the chopping block. I initially heard the rumour straight from the mouth of the head physio at the saints. I see him frequently for specialist treatment on an ongoing footy injury, how much he knows about whats happening at the blues, who knows... but he always loves talking footy and to quote him about carlton he said 'when it comes down to it, some coaches days are just numbered and clubs are always going to take a premiership coach over a new coach if they are on the market'. He said that Longmire had been trying to work with sydney to find a suitable replacement as he didnt want to leave the club in the wrong hands when he left, but he wanted to move back to Victoria and that Carlton were in talks with him. Said the same about Richardson and that ultimately if they found a suitable replacement he'd be going too, but there arent many respected coaches on the market at the moment and the saints dont have the same attraction as the big teams like the blues and tigers etc.

I know it will obviously stir up drama with some, but the rumour seems to be growing some legs with the story of longmire discussing leaving the swans now becoming a topic in the media, and obviously Bolton is currently being talked about amongst blues fans so I think it's worthy of sharing, but that this time I should go into a bit more depth rather than just saying boltons gone and longmire will replace with no context like a flog. Personally don't really know if i like Horse, hes clearly a great leader and teacher at sydney, but he has stuck with a rather boring system and style for many years, if he wanted to change things up at a new club that didn't center around buddy franklin id be interested to see what he'd bring... but obviously its still a wait and see. I'm hoping the boys turn things around because I think they all really like Bolts and they'd be shattered if he got the can.

What would everyone elses thoughts be on Horse if he were to take over next season?

ps. I've tried to word this the best I can to not sound like im just trying to stir up shit because we're 0-4, the initial post was before the season had started, but was deleted because I posted it like a w***er with no context probably looking like I was a troll.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If thats still classified as trying to incite drama then you can delete it, I just think its a topic worthy of discussion if he were to become our coach come the end of the season if Bolton doesn't last :S

 

[therubbernub]

I posted something similar back in December after speaking to a player who had just got the chop.

You hear that about every coach at every club about a good proportion of players not being utilised.

 

[Nori]

Tom Browne on the couch saying the following (said source is a senior official at the club)

1. Bolts is over-coaching - a lot of analysis, micro-management etc. exhausting the players (and assistans?) a bit
2. JSOS is struggling with his Dad at the club. Puts a lot of pressure on himself. Out of contract at the end of the year a trade could be best for him
3. SOS wants Stocker to play Bolton thinks he isn't ready
4. The above amongst some other things are causing some 'natural tension' between Bolts and SOS.

Top 2 aren't that hard to believe. Number 3 sounds rubbish (SOS shouldn't and wouldn't be pushing anyone for selection). Number 4 there would always be some disagreements between these 2 so not a big deal.

Thanks for posting this up.

1. I'm sure he is. They are making so many mistakes that Bolts being Bolts would want to address them all. Maybe he should just get back to basics and demand pressure and disposal efficiency. That would be a good start.
2. Isn't it interesting that as soon as JSOS is not playing seniors we get these stories of tensions. Not buying this one and as soon as he's back in the side I'd expect these rumours to disappear. JSOS is Carlton through and through.
3. I want to see Stocker too. The biggest problem Bolts has is poor disposal and one of their best users is playing seconds. Last year when they desperately needed a forward target Harry was left in the twos. Bolts claimed vindication when Harry came into the side and immediately looked the goods. Who knows if he was held back to long, but personally I don't see the point of playing kids in the NBs when they look a class above. It's just delaying their development.
4. That's why it's so important to start winning games. Whatever people say about patience I'm not sure the club will wear another 'development' year.

 

[Curnivore]

Tom Browne on the couch saying the following (said source is a senior official at the club)

1. Bolts is over-coaching - a lot of analysis, micro-management etc. exhausting the players (and assistans?) a bit
2. JSOS is struggling with his Dad at the club. Puts a lot of pressure on himself. Out of contract at the end of the year a trade could be best for him
3. SOS wants Stocker to play Bolton thinks he isn't ready
4. The above amongst some other things are causing some 'natural tension' between Bolts and SOS.

Top 2 aren't that hard to believe. Number 3 sounds rubbish (SOS shouldn't and wouldn't be pushing anyone for selection). Number 4 there would always be some disagreements between these 2 so not a big deal.

Not struggling with his Dad at the club. Wants to stay, Essendon has been in contact and will swoop if we don't wan't him.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Not struggling with his Dad at the club. Wants to stay, Essendon has been in contact and will swoop if we don't wan't him.

Dodo's way of payback for making them pay 2 x first rounders for Sheil. Although he made us use pick 40something on JSOS

 

[Curnivore]

Dodo's way of payback for making them pay 2 x first rounders for Sheil. Although he made us use pick 40something on JSOS

Dodo is a longtime friend of Sos

 

[chunkylover53]

Haha that is some payback - forcing your mate to trade your own son...

****ing Italians.

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Aphrodite I know I was probably out of line for saying that bolton would be going and longmire would be taking over at the end of the season in my first ever post, without mentioning where I heard about it or anything... but reports from the media tonight on footy classified etc is that longmire and sydney are looking at parting ways, and that bolton is bordering on the chopping block. I initially heard the rumour straight from the mouth of the head physio at the saints. I see him frequently for specialist treatment on an ongoing footy injury, how much he knows about whats happening at the blues, who knows... but he always loves talking footy and to quote him about carlton he said 'when it comes down to it, some coaches days are just numbered and clubs are always going to take a premiership coach over a new coach if they are on the market'. He said that Longmire had been trying to work with sydney to find a suitable replacement as he didnt want to leave the club in the wrong hands when he left, but he wanted to move back to Victoria and that Carlton were in talks with him. Said the same about Richardson and that ultimately if they found a suitable replacement he'd be going too, but there arent many respected coaches on the market at the moment and the saints dont have the same attraction as the big teams like the blues and tigers etc.

I know it will obviously stir up drama with some, but the rumour seems to be growing some legs with the story of longmire discussing leaving the swans now becoming a topic in the media, and obviously Bolton is currently being talked about amongst blues fans so I think it's worthy of sharing, but that this time I should go into a bit more depth rather than just saying boltons gone and longmire will replace with no context like a flog. Personally don't really know if i like Horse, hes clearly a great leader and teacher at sydney, but he has stuck with a rather boring system and style for many years, if he wanted to change things up at a new club that didn't center around buddy franklin id be interested to see what he'd bring... but obviously its still a wait and see. I'm hoping the boys turn things around because I think they all really like Bolts and they'd be shattered if he got the can.

What would everyone elses thoughts be on Horse if he were to take over next season?

ps. I've tried to word this the best I can to not sound like im just trying to stir up shit because we're 0-4, the initial post was before the season had started, but was deleted because I posted it like a w***er with no context probably looking like I was a troll.

Very interesting. I was told by a Swans Board member that Horse was going at the end of the year unless they made a Prelim. They feel like the list needs a new voice. This was at Christmas. No idea if that means he goes to Carlton though. Not sure how I feel about it TBH. Is he a good coach?

 

[Cripps2Curnow]

Tom Browne on the couch saying the following (said source is a senior official at the club)

1. Bolts is over-coaching - a lot of analysis, micro-management etc. exhausting the players (and assistans?) a bit
2. JSOS is struggling with his Dad at the club. Puts a lot of pressure on himself. Out of contract at the end of the year a trade could be best for him
3. SOS wants Stocker to play Bolton thinks he isn't ready
4. The above amongst some other things are causing some 'natural tension' between Bolts and SOS.

Top 2 aren't that hard to believe. Number 3 sounds rubbish (SOS shouldn't and wouldn't be pushing anyone for selection). Number 4 there would always be some disagreements between these 2 so not a big deal.

My take:

1 - just because you become a senior coach doesn't mean you know everything. All great CEOs will tell you they learn every day. If this is the case then 360 degree feedback should fix this. I would rather he be like this and change, then not into the detail. Minor issue.

2 - I could see this being an issue. Would be totally shocked if he was traded.

3 - highly doubt this. It is round 5.

4 - not everyone in a workplace has to get on. Tension can be good for performance if well managed.

 

[GT619]

Anyone in the know if there’s tension between sos n bolts and players being confused. Is bolts gone after seasons end

 

[btdg]

I'm not sure there's news in anything Tom Browne said.

1. Bolts is leading a struggling team of young players. There's so much to address with young guys - skills development, gameplan, match simulation, fitness development. It's easy with an established team of vets, where most of what they need to be AFL standard is already in place, to pick and choose where to focus. With young kids, they thrive in established teams where they have a clear, small role to play. That said, Brisbane have done well be taking the shackles off to some degree and just letting the kids play - led to some bad losses, but also some exciting wins. We're not quite at that point, but probably close. Note - if Bolton gets shanked at any point that'll be what the interim coach does and it'll be exactly that story (big losses and a few exciting wins but no development)

2. JSOS is a fringe youngster. Of course he's been up and down a bit, and in the down times his family name and profile probably doesn't help. Not news

3. As a club, we've clearly had a very structured approach to 'playing the kids'. With so many on the list, we've spent the last 3 years trying to get the balance right between list cloggers, old vets, and youngsters. At times we've played too many kids, and been smashed. At times we've played too many list cloggers, and looked stale and weak. All our high profile recruits (first, second round picks, key trade targets and Silvagni) have been given very generous runs in the seniors; SPS playing without even a single JLT match in his first season, even Dow and O'Brien last year (and this). No doubt there's been extensive debate about Stocker and whether the time is right to play him as well. I strongly doubt it is SOS vs Bolton, though. The entire match committee would be debating a bunch of key kids right now: it's a choice between Stocker, LOB, Dow, Marchbank, Kennedy, McKay, Polson vs Newman, Ed Curnow, Thomas, Casboult, Gibbons EVERY week.

4. Of course there's tension between Bolts and SOS. SOS has made decisions, both good and bad, that Bolts has to deal with and face the consequences of. Trading Gibbs and Touhy. Adding Phillips/Lobbe as backup ruckmen rather than someone actually competent. Dow over Cerra/Stephenson. O'Brien over Fogarty/Richards. Bringing in McGovern at a fairly high price, even though he creates some real selection issues. The Stocker trade (which puts unfair scrutiny on our ladder position). If I was Bolts, I'd be furious at the cards he has been dealt - he won't get another shot at head coaching if this doesn't work, and in many ways he has been screwed over by long-term thinking (while he has a short-term job). But if we stick fat with him, push through and keep developing, they'll be best buddies and an inseparably team in 3 years time when we start playing finals...

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Aphrodite I know I was probably out of line for saying that bolton would be going and longmire would be taking over at the end of the season in my first ever post, without mentioning where I heard about it or anything... but reports from the media tonight on footy classified etc is that longmire and sydney are looking at parting ways, and that bolton is bordering on the chopping block. I initially heard the rumour straight from the mouth of the head physio at the saints. I see him frequently for specialist treatment on an ongoing footy injury, how much he knows about whats happening at the blues, who knows... but he always loves talking footy and to quote him about carlton he said 'when it comes down to it, some coaches days are just numbered and clubs are always going to take a premiership coach over a new coach if they are on the market'. He said that Longmire had been trying to work with sydney to find a suitable replacement as he didnt want to leave the club in the wrong hands when he left, but he wanted to move back to Victoria and that Carlton were in talks with him. Said the same about Richardson and that ultimately if they found a suitable replacement he'd be going too, but there arent many respected coaches on the market at the moment and the saints dont have the same attraction as the big teams like the blues and tigers etc.

I know it will obviously stir up drama with some, but the rumour seems to be growing some legs with the story of longmire discussing leaving the swans now becoming a topic in the media, and obviously Bolton is currently being talked about amongst blues fans so I think it's worthy of sharing, but that this time I should go into a bit more depth rather than just saying boltons gone and longmire will replace with no context like a flog. Personally don't really know if i like Horse, hes clearly a great leader and teacher at sydney, but he has stuck with a rather boring system and style for many years, if he wanted to change things up at a new club that didn't center around buddy franklin id be interested to see what he'd bring... but obviously its still a wait and see. I'm hoping the boys turn things around because I think they all really like Bolts and they'd be shattered if he got the can.

What would everyone elses thoughts be on Horse if he were to take over next season?

ps. I've tried to word this the best I can to not sound like im just trying to stir up shit because we're 0-4, the initial post was before the season had started, but was deleted because I posted it like a w***er with no context probably looking like I was a troll.

Not the worst conclusion or wildest 'rumour' to grace these pages.
After watching Judd last night I got the impression that Bolton is not a lock at this stage for next year. Will watch again and dissect his words more carefully.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Aphrodite I know I was probably out of line for saying that bolton would be going and longmire would be taking over at the end of the season in my first ever post, without mentioning where I heard about it or anything... but reports from the media tonight on footy classified etc is that longmire and sydney are looking at parting ways, and that bolton is bordering on the chopping block. I initially heard the rumour straight from the mouth of the head physio at the saints. I see him frequently for specialist treatment on an ongoing footy injury, how much he knows about whats happening at the blues, who knows... but he always loves talking footy and to quote him about carlton he said 'when it comes down to it, some coaches days are just numbered and clubs are always going to take a premiership coach over a new coach if they are on the market'. He said that Longmire had been trying to work with sydney to find a suitable replacement as he didnt want to leave the club in the wrong hands when he left, but he wanted to move back to Victoria and that Carlton were in talks with him. Said the same about Richardson and that ultimately if they found a suitable replacement he'd be going too, but there arent many respected coaches on the market at the moment and the saints dont have the same attraction as the big teams like the blues and tigers etc.

I know it will obviously stir up drama with some, but the rumour seems to be growing some legs with the story of longmire discussing leaving the swans now becoming a topic in the media, and obviously Bolton is currently being talked about amongst blues fans so I think it's worthy of sharing, but that this time I should go into a bit more depth rather than just saying boltons gone and longmire will replace with no context like a flog. Personally don't really know if i like Horse, hes clearly a great leader and teacher at sydney, but he has stuck with a rather boring system and style for many years, if he wanted to change things up at a new club that didn't center around buddy franklin id be interested to see what he'd bring... but obviously its still a wait and see. I'm hoping the boys turn things around because I think they all really like Bolts and they'd be shattered if he got the can.

What would everyone elses thoughts be on Horse if he were to take over next season?

ps. I've tried to word this the best I can to not sound like im just trying to stir up shit because we're 0-4, the initial post was before the season had started, but was deleted because I posted it like a w***er with no context probably looking like I was a troll.

Why would the head physio of the saints know what is planned by 2 other clubs?

At best, your rumour should be: "Longmire wants to come back to Melbourne". The rest is unfounded speculation, either by the physio, or more likely, you.

 

[CFC18]

After watching Judd last night I got the impression that Bolton is not a lock at this stage for next year. Will watch again and dissect his words more carefully.

At 2:47min he uncomfortably gazes left. At 4:17min his upper lip twitches suspiciously. What does that mean!

 

[chunkylover53]

If we plan on sacking Bolton and employing any of the following:

John Longmire
Paul Roos
Ross Lyon

I will absolutely ****ing spew and shred my membership.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Why would the head physio of the saints know what is planned by 2 other clubs?

At best, your rumour should be: "Longmire wants to come back to Melbourne". The rest is unfounded speculation, either by the physio, or more likely, you.

Thats why I said 'how much he knows about what's happening at the blues who knows'. I dont know how much involvement the physios have at a club, but I'd guess if you're in there every day treating the players youd probably hear a thing or two. It's all speculation about the future, probably will hear a hundred different rumours that dont end up true, but they were discussing it in the media last night so it sounds like it could have some truth behind it.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Very interesting. I was told by a Swans Board member that Horse was going at the end of the year unless they made a Prelim. They feel like the list needs a new voice. This was at Christmas. No idea if that means he goes to Carlton though. Not sure how I feel about it TBH. Is he a good coach?

Honestly dont know with longmire, hes had basically the same list for years, some youngsters have developed like heeney and mills etc but it's hard to know if that's because of him or just them leaning on so many champions like kennedy and McVeigh etc. They have a good defensive structure and midfield, but I think coming to carlton at this stage would test any coach. So many youngsters and looking like we might only get another year out of simmo and murph, would be a tough task... maybe that's what he wants? Who knows

 

[AndyLucimitis]

At 2:47min he uncomfortably gazes left. At 4:17min his upper lip twitches suspiciously. What does that mean!

That question is a little like 'have you stopped bashing your Grandmother'.

How's he supposed to answer - Blind Freddy knows Bolts cannot be guaranteed for next year but at the moment he IS coach.

 

[CFC18]

I'm still going fwiw.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

If we plan on sacking Bolton and employing any of the following:

John Longmire
Paul Roos
Ross Lyon

I will absolutely ******* spew and shred my membership.

2nd hand rumours, but there have been whispers of Lyon for a while now. SOS and Lyon are tight.

 

[Curnivore]

I'm not sure there's news in anything Tom Browne said.


4. Of course there's tension between Bolts and SOS. SOS has made decisions, both good and bad, that Bolts has to deal with and face the consequences of. Trading Gibbs and Touhy. Adding Phillips/Lobbe as backup ruckmen rather than someone actually competent. Dow over Cerra/Stephenson. O'Brien over Fogarty/Richards. Bringing in McGovern at a fairly high price, even though he creates some real selection issues. The Stocker trade (which puts unfair scrutiny on our ladder position). If I was Bolts, I'd be furious at the cards he has been dealt - he won't get another shot at head coaching if this doesn't work, and in many ways he has been screwed over by long-term thinking (while he has a short-term job). But if we stick fat with him, push through and keep developing, they'll be best buddies and an inseparably team in 3 years time when we start playing finals...

Lobbe has a proven record of being a great ruckman. We have a young gun in TDK that we are developing. Who would you have picked available that was better over Lobbe as a back up?

 

[Curnivore]

If we plan on sacking Bolton and employing any of the following:

John Longmire
Paul Roos
Ross Lyon

I will absolutely ******* spew and shred my membership.

Astonishingly overatted. Didn't build the harder part of the list and took all the credit for the improvements made to Melbourne whilst dismissing all the negatives as the aftermath of tanking.

 

[jezzajay]

2nd hand rumours, but there have been whispers of Lyon for a while now. SOS and Lyon are tight.

Please no...his brand of footy bores me to tears.