Bluemour Discussion Thread XV - Facts Not Welcome

[Iamcarlton]

If we're 2-2 after four rounds, Tom Browne isn't reporting this information.

Exactly making up shit is what journos of today do when a side is struggling to get wins .
It's the only way some of them can survive in footy reporting .

 

[Broadside]

At 2:47min he uncomfortably gazes left. At 4:17min his upper lip twitches suspiciously. What does that mean!

he was lowering his eyes looking for a target. And he hit it.

 

[btdg]

Lobbe has a proven record of being a great ruckman. We have a young gun in TDK that we are developing. Who would you have picked available that was better over Lobbe as a back up?

Lobbe was a decent, not great, ruckman in 2013-14. Barely played in 2016 and not at all in 2017. Was mediocre for us last year. Kreuzer and Phillips are injury prone (and Phillips is mediocre).

The De Koning draft selection was awful. He's a project forward/ruck who sits behind Curnow, McKay, and now McGovern in the pecking order. We were screaming for midfielders and Constable, Worpel, Jack Ross were available

In terms of a backup, in last year's draft Lycett (free agent), Preuss (traded for Dom Tyson), Tom Hickey (traded for basically a 4th round pick), Rory Lobb (traded for a late first rounder) and Jordan Roughead (pick 75 - now playing for Collingwood) were all available. That's only the players who actually moved clubs - it doesn't factor in actually pursuing and getting someone to fill that spot.

Bolton could rightly be upset about that IMO.

 

[Curnivore]

Lobbe was a decent, not great, ruckman in 2013-14. Barely played in 2016 and not at all in 2017. Was mediocre for us last year. Kreuzer and Phillips are injury prone (and Phillips is mediocre).

The De Koning draft selection was awful. He's a project forward/ruck who sits behind Curnow, McKay, and now McGovern in the pecking order. We were screaming for midfielders and Constable, Worpel, Jack Ross were available

In terms of a backup, in last year's draft Lycett (free agent), Preuss (traded for Dom Tyson), Tom Hickey (traded for basically a 4th round pick), Rory Lobb (traded for a late first rounder) and Jordan Roughead (pick 75 - now playing for Collingwood) were all available. That's only the players who actually moved clubs - it doesn't factor in actually pursuing and getting someone to fill that spot.

Bolton could rightly be upset about that IMO.

Avaliable when we picked him up, not highsight if the year after. TDK has shown a lot, and played with Dow and LOB, minimizing flight risk for all three players. Smart drafting

 

[blueboy25]

Lobbe was a decent, not great, ruckman in 2013-14. Barely played in 2016 and not at all in 2017. Was mediocre for us last year. Kreuzer and Phillips are injury prone (and Phillips is mediocre).

The De Koning draft selection was awful. He's a project forward/ruck who sits behind Curnow, McKay, and now McGovern in the pecking order. We were screaming for midfielders and Constable, Worpel, Jack Ross were available

In terms of a backup, in last year's draft Lycett (free agent), Preuss (traded for Dom Tyson), Tom Hickey (traded for basically a 4th round pick), Rory Lobb (traded for a late first rounder) and Jordan Roughead (pick 75 - now playing for Collingwood) were all available. That's only the players who actually moved clubs - it doesn't factor in actually pursuing and getting someone to fill that spot.

Bolton could rightly be upset about that IMO.

Lycett - wanted to head home to Adelaide
Pruess - has no tank and can't be the number 1 ruckman
Hickey - If the saints got rid of him, then would he be any better than what we have?
Lobb- wanted to return to Perth
Roughhead - basically a key defender.

 

[ray8182]

Lobbe was a decent, not great, ruckman in 2013-14. Barely played in 2016 and not at all in 2017. Was mediocre for us last year. Kreuzer and Phillips are injury prone (and Phillips is mediocre).

The De Koning draft selection was awful. He's a project forward/ruck who sits behind Curnow, McKay, and now McGovern in the pecking order. We were screaming for midfielders and Constable, Worpel, Jack Ross were available

In terms of a backup, in last year's draft Lycett (free agent), Preuss (traded for Dom Tyson), Tom Hickey (traded for basically a 4th round pick), Rory Lobb (traded for a late first rounder) and Jordan Roughead (pick 75 - now playing for Collingwood) were all available. That's only the players who actually moved clubs - it doesn't factor in actually pursuing and getting someone to fill that spot.

Bolton could rightly be upset about that IMO.

Going for a midfielder at pick 30, when we rated an available young ruckman, would have been short sighted.

Taking a midfielder would have been a bit like a sugar fix. In the short term you get more out of it, but in the long term you leave a big hole.


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[jooce8891]

Jack Ross were available

no he wasnt. only available last year, tdk was the year before.

 

[btdg]

Lycett - wanted to head home to Adelaide
Pruess - has no tank and can't be the number 1 ruckman
Hickey - If the saints got rid of him, then would he be any better than what we have?
Lobb- wanted to return to Perth
Roughhead - basically a key defender.

Lycett was up for grabs. Port have a family connection which made it easy when they offered him good money. We could have chased hard - and really for a 26 year-old, big bodied ruck entering his prime, for zero cost, it would have made a lot of sense.

Preuss - Is 23 years old, still has development left. Is better as a #1 ruck than Phillips and Lobbe, with the potentail to be dominant in 2-3 years time. Exactly the type of player we should be chasing.

Hickey - Yes, he's better than Phillips and Lobbe. Not much, but good enough to play for the best team in the comp. Same with Roughead - at least he's big bodied and versatile.

Lobb, probably always going to Perth, but we didn't chase.

The point was more about the Bolton/Silvagni relationship. Our list management has been excellent in some ways (getting in young talent in KP and midfield spots) and left gaping holes in others (ruck, small forward, running defenders).

Bolton's job security is threatened by those gaps - they limit what he can do as a coach, force compromises in structure. He's publicly shown great composure and perspective through this rebuild, which is arguably his biggest strength, and has dealt with it professionally.

I can totally see why there might be tension between him and SOS though. It's like Bolton's had to deal with one hand tied behind his back at times, particularly seeing as he's also had to manage getting games into a heap of young guys, while also having serviceable list-cloggers waiting in the wings. Hard to keep the faith when guys like Kerridge, Palmer, etc are playing reserves so that young kids can make mistakes in the twos.

So I don't think the initial rumour matters much. If we stick with Bolton and this rebuild works, he and SOS will be best buddies. If Bolton gets fired (which doesn't seem imminent, but who knows?) then I imagine he'll go to his grave thinking that his poor record was largely SOS's fault, and probably be right too. Which isn't to say SOS has done a bad job, he's just had the long-term in mind more than patching the gaping holes in our 2015-2019 list.

 

[btdg]

no he wasnt. only available last year, tdk was the year before.

Sorry, confused Jackson Ross (Hawthorn, 2017 draft) with Jack Ross (Richmond, 2018 draft).

 

[Gethelred]

Lycett was up for grabs. Port have a family connection which made it easy when they offered him good money. We could have chased hard - and really for a 26 year-old, big bodied ruck entering his prime, for zero cost, it would have made a lot of sense.

Preuss - Is 23 years old, still has development left. Is better as a #1 ruck than Phillips and Lobbe, with the potentail to be dominant in 2-3 years time. Exactly the type of player we should be chasing.

Hickey - Yes, he's better than Phillips and Lobbe. Not much, but good enough to play for the best team in the comp. Same with Roughead - at least he's big bodied and versatile.

Lobb, probably always going to Perth, but we didn't chase.

The point was more about the Bolton/Silvagni relationship. Our list management has been excellent in some ways (getting in young talent in KP and midfield spots) and left gaping holes in others (ruck, small forward, running defenders).

Bolton's job security is threatened by those gaps - they limit what he can do as a coach, force compromises in structure. He's publicly shown great composure and perspective through this rebuild, which is arguably his biggest strength, and has dealt with it professionally.

I can totally see why there might be tension between him and SOS though. It's like Bolton's had to deal with one hand tied behind his back at times, particularly seeing as he's also had to manage getting games into a heap of young guys, while also having serviceable list-cloggers waiting in the wings. Hard to keep the faith when guys like Kerridge, Palmer, etc are playing reserves so that young kids can make mistakes in the twos.

So I don't think the initial rumour matters much. If we stick with Bolton and this rebuild works, he and SOS will be best buddies. If Bolton gets fired (which doesn't seem imminent, but who knows?) then I imagine he'll go to his grave thinking that his poor record was largely SOS's fault, and probably be right too. Which isn't to say SOS has done a bad job, he's just had the long-term in mind more than patching the gaping holes in our 2015-2019 list.

This. List build isn't finished yet, perhaps could've been done faster/differently to ensure that the gaps were patched a little sooner, to ensure that the coach was not exposed by a) injury, as he was last year, forcing him to play young midfielders and forwards (SPS, Jack) out of position, or b) a lack of role players in what are underestimated contributing roles for our success (forward pocket, back pocket).

I reject the notion that our backup rucks could be better. Lobbe would be better than most, and Phillips while injury prone when he gets a run on he's as good as anyone except the very best. He's probably going to be moved on at the end of the year, though.

 

[therubbernub]

After watching Judd last night I got the impression that Bolton is not a lock at this stage for next year. Will watch again and dissect his words more carefully

WTF do you expect? Surely you remember the Eddie comments about buckley before he reappointed him ? Its pretty standard rhetoric.

 

[Blue and Blue]

At 2:47min he uncomfortably gazes left. At 4:17min his upper lip twitches suspiciously. What does that mean!

2:47 Checking where the loos are
4:17 Knowing he definitely needs them with lots of air time ahead.
Even champions can mis-calulate the effect of a glass of water...........

 

[Michael Jezz]

Astonishingly overatted. Didn't build the harder part of the list and took all the credit for the improvements made to Melbourne whilst dismissing all the negatives as the aftermath of tanking.

Is Roos a great coach or the chicken on a plate of bacon and eggs?

 

[Benaly28]

Imagine if Brett Ratten came back.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

WTF do you expect? Surely you remember the Eddie comments about buckley before he reappointed him ? Its pretty standard rhetoric.

I don't expect anything. FFS.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Lobbe was a decent, not great, ruckman in 2013-14. Barely played in 2016 and not at all in 2017. Was mediocre for us last year. Kreuzer and Phillips are injury prone (and Phillips is mediocre).

The De Koning draft selection was awful. He's a project forward/ruck who sits behind Curnow, McKay, and now McGovern in the pecking order. We were screaming for midfielders and Constable, Worpel, Jack Ross were available

In terms of a backup, in last year's draft Lycett (free agent), Preuss (traded for Dom Tyson), Tom Hickey (traded for basically a 4th round pick), Rory Lobb (traded for a late first rounder) and Jordan Roughead (pick 75 - now playing for Collingwood) were all available. That's only the players who actually moved clubs - it doesn't factor in actually pursuing and getting someone to fill that spot.

Bolton could rightly be upset about that IMO.

De Konig???? Do you watch the NBs? He could be anything at least the equal of Mckay/Curnow but he can ruck. We took him at pick 30. It is an inspired choice. Silvagni did the right thing in taking KPPs first. They are very hard to recruit with late picks or in trades because for every Lynch there are 2 devon smiths, Dylan Shiels etc. We wanted strategic long term recruiting that positioned the club as a top 4 destination and now we have it and half the supporters have not the stomach to stay the course. I am not saying Bolton will take us to the holy grail. History tells you Dixon preceded Barassi. Thorogood and Stewart preceded Jezza. Mcartney preceded Beveridge. The teaching coach usually is not the premiership coach. A new coach will inherit enough well trained, fit talent and take us over the hump towards real success

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Lobbe would be better than most, and Phillips while injury prone when he gets a run on he's as good as anyone except the very best. He's probably going to be moved on at the end of the year, though.

Lobbe can barely move. He was serviceable when called upon last year but looks to be absolutely cooked.

 

[KohPhi]

Not struggling with his Dad at the club. Wants to stay, Essendon has been in contact and will swoop if we don't wan't him.

Sweet Jesus, if that happens, this place will explode.

 

[KohPhi]

In terms of a backup, in last year's draft Lycett (free agent), Preuss (traded for Dom Tyson), Tom Hickey (traded for basically a 4th round pick), Rory Lobb (traded for a late first rounder) and Jordan Roughead (pick 75 - now playing for Collingwood) were all available. That's only the players who actually moved clubs - it doesn't factor in actually pursuing and getting someone to fill that spot

Maybe none of those players were interested in coming to the Blues..

 

[Bluella]

Sweet Jesus, if that happens, this place will explode.

View attachment 655986

I used to have a great dane that did that. I am convinced she thought she was the size of a chihuahua.

 

[GT619]

Imagine if Brett Ratten came back.

I can’t see it happening after how they treated him. Won’t happen

 

[Funk]

Maybe none of those players were interested in coming to the Blues..

Yep - we already had 4 rucks on our list.

Perfect place to go for an aspiring R1.

Hmmmmmm....... - maybe not.

 

[HBF]

Imagine if Brett Ratten came back.

Question is, would he want to come back?

 

[Blue and Blue]

How about Parko..third time lucky again......

 

[Curnivore]

Lycett was up for grabs. Port have a family connection which made it easy when they offered him good money. We could have chased hard - and really for a 26 year-old, big bodied ruck entering his prime, for zero cost, it would have made a lot of sense.

Preuss - Is 23 years old, still has development left. Is better as a #1 ruck than Phillips and Lobbe, with the potentail to be dominant in 2-3 years time. Exactly the type of player we should be chasing.

Hickey - Yes, he's better than Phillips and Lobbe. Not much, but good enough to play for the best team in the comp. Same with Roughead - at least he's big bodied and versatile.

Lobb, probably always going to Perth, but we didn't chase.

The point was more about the Bolton/Silvagni relationship. Our list management has been excellent in some ways (getting in young talent in KP and midfield spots) and left gaping holes in others (ruck, small forward, running defenders).

Bolton's job security is threatened by those gaps - they limit what he can do as a coach, force compromises in structure. He's publicly shown great composure and perspective through this rebuild, which is arguably his biggest strength, and has dealt with it professionally.

I can totally see why there might be tension between him and SOS though. It's like Bolton's had to deal with one hand tied behind his back at times, particularly seeing as he's also had to manage getting games into a heap of young guys, while also having serviceable list-cloggers waiting in the wings. Hard to keep the faith when guys like Kerridge, Palmer, etc are playing reserves so that young kids can make mistakes in the twos.

So I don't think the initial rumour matters much. If we stick with Bolton and this rebuild works, he and SOS will be best buddies. If Bolton gets fired (which doesn't seem imminent, but who knows?) then I imagine he'll go to his grave thinking that his poor record was largely SOS's fault, and probably be right too. Which isn't to say SOS has done a bad job, he's just had the long-term in mind more than patching the gaping holes in our 2015-2019 list.

What holes? Bolton didn't want to get rid of Gibbs but went hard on Rockliff, Sheil, Kelly and Devon Smith.
Bolton now has one of the best functioning backlines in the comp in Jones, Weits, Plowman, Docherty, Newman and Marchbank.
An uncompleted forward line which has a burst style gun in Mitch McGovern, Charlie who was hyped to be the best player in the comp by legends of the game and Harry McKay who has had the most contested marks in the first three rounds ever, and prior to that averaged two goals a game.
What could SOS have done besides offer Rockliff and kelly a collective $3mill that would make any difference on our win loss ratio?