Bluemour Discussion Thread XV - Facts Not Welcome

[agro]

Lobbe was a decent, not great, ruckman in 2013-14. Barely played in 2016 and not at all in 2017. Was mediocre for us last year. Kreuzer and Phillips are injury prone (and Phillips is mediocre).

The De Koning draft selection was awful. He's a project forward/ruck who sits behind Curnow, McKay, and now McGovern in the pecking order. We were screaming for midfielders and Constable, Worpel, Jack Ross were available

In terms of a backup, in last year's draft Lycett (free agent), Preuss (traded for Dom Tyson), Tom Hickey (traded for basically a 4th round pick), Rory Lobb (traded for a late first rounder) and Jordan Roughead (pick 75 - now playing for Collingwood) were all available. That's only the players who actually moved clubs - it doesn't factor in actually pursuing and getting someone to fill that spot.

Bolton could rightly be upset about that IMO.

For our sake I hope De Koning, turns into a player.

But you’re right - Constable and Worpel we’re available at the De Koning pick, I would have taken Constable at the O’Brien pick.

By not splitting our pick 16, we could have taken Richards at 10, Constable at 16 and Worpel with Pick 40, our midfield problems would have been greatly eased.

Like I said I hope De Koning is worth it.

 

[Benaly28]

Question is, would he want to come back?

In a heartbeat.He was the one coach who got us playing a great brand of football.Unfortunate how it ended but I’m pretty sure no one who were on the board are on the board now.Not saying we should get rid of bolts but imagine if he did come back.

 

[Benaly28]

For our sake I hope De Koning, turns into a player.

But you’re right - Constable and Worpel we’re available at the De Koning pick, I would have taken Constable at the O’Brien pick.

By not splitting our pick 16, we could have taken Richards at 10, Constable at 16 and Worpel with Pick 40, our midfield problems would have been greatly eased.

Like I said I hope De Koning is worth it.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[agro]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I called Constable at that draft (not here but on Talking Carlton) I wont claim Worpel or Richards, but those I discussed with elsewhere had these players as well.

But yes hit me with the hindsight stick if you must.

 

[Blue and Blue]

For our sake I hope De Koning, turns into a player.

But you’re right - Constable and Worpel we’re available at the De Koning pick, I would have taken Constable at the O’Brien pick.

By not splitting our pick 16, we could have taken Richards at 10, Constable at 16 and Worpel with Pick 40, our midfield problems would have been greatly eased.

Like I said I hope De Koning is worth it.

New whipping boy? Pretty astonishing achievement for a guy with 2 games and injured.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

For our sake I hope De Koning, turns into a player.

But you’re right - Constable and Worpel we’re available at the De Koning pick, I would have taken Constable at the O’Brien pick.

By not splitting our pick 16, we could have taken Richards at 10, Constable at 16 and Worpel with Pick 40, our midfield problems would have been greatly eased.

Like I said I hope De Koning is worth it.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing.
We can look back at all drafts and say "if only we did this". How often does the #1 draft pick go on and be the best player to come out of the draft?
Sammy Walsh will break the mold of course...although in 4 or 5 years time, there'll be people saying "we should have traded pick 1 and blah blah blah..."

 

[agro]

New whipping boy? Pretty astonishing achievement for a guy with 2 games and injured.

Where did I whip De Koning.

 

[Blue and Blue]

It was supposed to be funny ....all good

 

[Benaly28]

I called Constable at that draft (not here but on Talking Carlton) I wont claim Worpel or Richards, but those I discussed with elsewhere had these players as well.

But yes hit me with the hindsight stick if you must.

Granted Constable looks like a solid player but don’t think he has that X factor however with TDK I see something in him that might make him an exciting prospect.Worpel was highly rated but dropped down the order I think because of his disposal but the player we should’ve taken was Richards at 10 instead of LOB.At this stage he is way in front of him.Im thinking the reason why we didn’t is because we have Willo who can play that role.Hopefully LOB can turn out to be a gem.

 

[agro]

Granted Constable looks like a solid player but don’t think he has that X factor however with TDK I see something in him that might make him an exciting prospect.Worpel was highly rated but dropped down the order I think because of his disposal but the player we should’ve taken was Richards at 10 instead of LOB.At this stage he is way in front of him.Im thinking the reason why we didn’t is because we have Willo who can play that role.Hopefully LOB can turn out to be a gem.

The reason I’m critical of the DeKoning selection is because it was a terrible list management decision, we needed mids not talls.

De Koning may turn into a jet, but we needed mids.

LOB a gem, once again I hope so but he’s not the type of player we should have taken at 10.

 

[Blue and Blue]

The reason I’m critical of the DeKoning selection is because it was a terrible list management decision, we needed mids not talls.

De Koning may turn into a jet, but we needed mids.

LOB a gem, once again I hope so but he’s not the type of player we should have taken at 10.

We need a ruck though..its a problem area and Tom might be it long term. I would think that was the logic behind it.
O' Brien should be a good player once he has a couple more pre seasons. He can kick it.
At some point if a player is good enough where they came in the draft doesn't matter and noone can get them all right.

 

[Curnivore]

The reason I’m critical of the DeKoning selection is because it was a terrible list management decision, we needed mids not talls.

De Koning may turn into a jet, but we needed mids.

LOB a gem, once again I hope so but he’s not the type of player we should have taken at 10.

He was predicted at about 12 so it's not that much of a reach and people have been complaining about our ruck depth for weeks, so clearly TDK was a need.
How many midfielders play at once in a team of 22. Kennedy, Fisher, SPS, Dow, Walsh, Setterfield, Cripps, Cunningham are all first round midfielders, how many do you want?

 

[agro]

He was predicted at about 12 so it's not that much of a reach and people have been complaining about our ruck depth for weeks, so clearly TDK was a need.
How many midfielders play at once in a team of 22. Kennedy, Fisher, SPS, Dow, Walsh, Setterfield, Cripps, Cunningham are all first round midfielders, how many do you want?

Look at Geelong, they have Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan, Menagola and they continue to draft midfielders.

They play them a season in the VFL side, and then let them go, Constable etc.

 

[Arr0w]

The operative word is ‘IF’.

If your Aunty had a moustache, she’s be your uncle.

If’s, but’s and maybe’s, coulda, shoulda, woulda - all count for nothing.

If Carlton had won 4 games in a row, we’d be on top of the ladder.

How absurd! The reality is Carlton is a bottom of the ladder club; rising star nominees count for jack.

Forget media reports, go on the raw data - it shows Bolton is a wooden spoon coach with a wooden spoon game plan.

I might just bookmark this one

 

[Healer]

What holes? Bolton didn't want to get rid of Gibbs but went hard on Rockliff, Sheil, Kelly and Devon Smith.
Bolton now has one of the best functioning backlines in the comp in Jones, Weits, Plowman, Docherty, Newman and Marchbank.
An uncompleted forward line which has a burst style gun in Mitch McGovern, Charlie who was hyped to be the best player in the comp by legends of the game and Harry McKay who has had the most contested marks in the first three rounds ever, and prior to that averaged two goals a game.
What could SOS have done besides offer Rockliff and kelly a collective $3mill that would make any difference on our win loss ratio?

Given the list immaturity, the extent of personnel change over, the abysmal injury history, there are too many variables for us to expect short term consistent performance. I doubt in the circumstances that adding Rockliff, Sheil, Kelly would have made that much difference to our win loss this year. Our gameplan and player synergy is a works in process. We are not instinctive yet. I reckon we largely have the talent. This year will be a settling period. End of year top ups, icing on the cake in terms of personnel.
Next year we will start to be a better than 50-50 threat to 80% of the opposition.

 

[Curnivore]

Look at Geelong, they have Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan, Menagola and they continue to draft midfielders.

They play them a season in the VFL side, and then let them go, Constable etc.

Midfields playing under danger, selwood, kelly, ablett and Guthrie. The kids they draft aren't exactly getting as much attention as ours.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Given the list immaturity, the extent of personnel change over, the abysmal injury history, there are too many variables for us to expect short term consistent performance. I doubt in the circumstances that adding Rockliff, Sheil, Kelly would have made that much difference to our win loss this year. Our gameplan and player synergy is a works in process. We are not instinctive yet. I reckon we largely have the talent. This year will be a settling period. End of year top ups, icing on the cake in terms of personnel.
Next year we will start to be a better than 50-50 threat to 80% of the opposition.

Good post.....
The only danger is impatience. This media crap needs to stop. The self serving garbage trying to force the clubs hand is immoral and unjust.
I do however think they are in for a rude shock. Our President is tougher than they think. And so on down the ranks.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Midfields playing under danger, selwood, kelly, ablett and Guthrie. The kids they draft aren't exactly getting as much attention as ours.

I dont care to become a middling side like Geelong. They would do well to rebuild themselves.

 

[Curnivore]

Given the list immaturity, the extent of personnel change over, the abysmal injury history, there are too many variables for us to expect short term consistent performance. I doubt in the circumstances that adding Rockliff, Sheil, Kelly would have made that much difference to our win loss this year. Our gameplan and player synergy is a works in process. We are not instinctive yet. I reckon we largely have the talent. This year will be a settling period. End of year top ups, icing on the cake in terms of personnel.
Next year we will start to be a better than 50-50 threat to 80% of the opposition.

I agree with what you said bar adding Sheil or Kelly to our list wouldn't have changed our win loss ratio. We have good depth in our forward line and our back line; but if Cripps gets injured we are f***ed in the middle

 

[Healer]

Good post.....
The only danger is impatience. This media crap needs to stop. The self serving garbage trying to force the clubs hand is immoral and unjust.
I do however tink they are in for a rude shock. Our President is tougher than they think. And so on down the ranks.

B&B, take the example yesterday, Tom Morris creates some crap reporting and our BF blues posters start debating the points.
We need to hang fat, give this crap journalism no oxygen and pillory the trash journalists.
We should list of journos not to be believed or trusted under any circumstances and cut them off.
The old adage about not shooting the messenger doesn't extend to journos. I mean that figuratively, of course.

 

[agro]

Midfields playing under danger, selwood, kelly, ablett and Guthrie. The kids they draft aren't exactly getting as much attention as ours.

Their development system is far superior.

 

[btdg]

What holes? Bolton didn't want to get rid of Gibbs but went hard on Rockliff, Sheil, Kelly and Devon Smith.
Bolton now has one of the best functioning backlines in the comp in Jones, Weits, Plowman, Docherty, Newman and Marchbank.
An uncompleted forward line which has a burst style gun in Mitch McGovern, Charlie who was hyped to be the best player in the comp by legends of the game and Harry McKay who has had the most contested marks in the first three rounds ever, and prior to that averaged two goals a game.
What could SOS have done besides offer Rockliff and kelly a collective $3mill that would make any difference on our win loss ratio?

List holes?

We don't have any Good small forwards or even medium forwards, in a league where that's become a premium.

We don't have a reliable ruckman, and in particular, the 23-24 year old about to explode and giv our young mids a chopout. Kreuzer is 29 and injury prone. Phillips is 27, limited, and injury prone. Right ow we are supporting our young midfield group with Lobbe, who hasn't fired a shot since 2015, and Casboult. That's a big hole.

We don't have any players who run and carry out of defence. Docherty may never get back, sadly. Thomas and Simpson are playing that role, but well past it. New,an has been good, but we don't exactly have a Laird/Houli running defender. We don't have a lockdown small defender either.

So the coach is left planning to win games with a totally imbalanced team. No run and attack? Look at the list composition.

It’s not a secret though - the club has openly invested in premium positions first to build the core of the list. The relevance here is to the rumour about tension between Bolts and SOS. It must be right there for them

 

[Healer]

I agree with what you said bar adding Sheil or Kelly to our list wouldn't have changed our win loss ratio. We have good depth in our forward line and our back line; but if Cripps gets injured we are f***ed in the middle

yep. it sure would right now. Take a Crippa, Bont, Dusty, Fyffe out of any side and it would hurt.
Take Doc out and it hurts....but we are learning to persevere and others are more reliably starting to stand up in Doc's absence .

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Their development system is far superior.

They have the 'luxury' of having experienced players across all parts of their line up, which makes it far easier to bring in the kids.

Having said that, they do have an excellent development system so these kids can hit the ground running when they eventually get selected. We've seen it time and time again.

That's why I wouldn't mind if we start raiding some of their kids not getting a regular game and getting overtaken by others, like a Narkle or Jermaine Jones. You pretty much have a ready made kid that could slot in from day 1.

 

[agro]

They have the 'luxury' of having experienced players across all parts of their line up, which makes it far easier to bring in the kids.

Having said that, they do have an excellent development system so these kids can hit the ground running when they eventually get selected. We've seen it time and time again.

That's why I wouldn't mind if we start raiding some of their kids not getting a regular game and getting overtaken by others, like a Narkle or Jermaine Jones. You pretty much have a ready made kid that could slot in from day 1.

Their ‘luxury’ is due to consistent and superior List Management.