USA MAGA activist Charlie Kirk shot dead during Utah rally

[Gethelred]

Okay. We've probably had enough of a free for all.

There are still forum and site posting guidelines, and you will abide by them.

A few seem to be of the opinion that now is a good time to have a crack at moderators or moderation. I'd rather like to discourage that impulse so I'm going to make it explicit: a moderator on this forum is a poster like any other, and can share their views and have free use of the forum like any other. If you feel a post breaches the rules report it; attacking a mod for their posting or objecting to a post purely because a moderator said it is grounds for an infraction and some time off.

From here, if you cannot speak civilly, you will not be allowed to participate.

Thanks all.

 

[liz]

The only difference with this death is that it occurred at home and was not conducted by the government. This is noteworthy for a few different reasons. One is purely that the cat is out of the bag now: the state no longer holds a monopoly over violence within its own borders. A private citizen successfully conductee an assassination on a political target; regardless of his reasons, he had to know it would be interpreted politically. This has tremendous fallout: the population at large knows it's possible now, in a way they didn't before.

I agree with a large part of your post, especially the first four paragraphs. The rhetoric of condemnation of the assassination of Kirk - while understandable and not unreasonable - has been in stark contrast to the response to 11 unnamed people in a boat being deliberately blown up by the US army just days before.

I disagree with the paragraph quoted above, which implies (or from which I have inferred) that this is something new. There is no new cat out of the bag. There has been a long history of political assassinations by private citizens, both in the US and elsewhere. I don't believe the population at large has been given some new revelation as to the possibility. They already knew.

 

[pjcrows]

The left being the ideology of murder is becoming ever more prescient.

• William McKinley – assassinated by a radical leftist
• John F. Kennedy – killed by an extreme leftist/socialist
• Franklin D. Roosevelt* – survived an attempt by a radical leftist
• Gerald Ford* – targeted twice, with at least one attempt by a radical leftist
• Donald Trump* – remains unclear, though indications suggest possible leftist ties given donations to Democratic causes

The Overton window is shifting. As a neutral observer, I see that—especially following recent events (the failed assassination of Trump, the murder of Iryna, and the assassination of Kirk)—the centre-right and right have become less tolerant of open discussion and healthy debate. Instead, they are increasingly adopting tactics associated with the left, like the cancellation of those celebrating Kirk's death.

The political left needs to take a serious look at its rhetoric and messaging given it has contributed significantly to the indoctrination and the radicalisation of individuals.

 

[sherb]

The left being the ideology of murder is becoming ever more prescient.

• William McKinley – assassinated by a radical leftist
• John F. Kennedy – killed by an extreme leftist/socialist
• Franklin D. Roosevelt* – survived an attempt by a radical leftist
• Gerald Ford* – targeted twice, with at least one attempt by a radical leftist
• Donald Trump* – remains unclear, though indications suggest possible leftist ties given donations to Democratic causes

The Overton window is shifting. As a neutral observer, I see that—especially following recent events (the failed assassination of Trump, the murder of Iryna, and the assassination of Kirk)—the centre-right and right have become less tolerant of open discussion and healthy debate. Instead, they are increasingly adopting tactics associated with the left, like the cancellation of those celebrating Kirk's death.

The political left needs to take a serious look at its rhetoric and messaging given it has contributed significantly to the indoctrination and the radicalisation of individuals.

Now do the right.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

Top 1% student, according to Gateway Pundit

Alleged Charlie Kirk Assassin Tyler Robinson's Stellar ACT Scores Revealed – Posted by Proud Mother on Facebook Before Tragedy | The Gateway Pundit | by Cassandra MacDonald

New details have emerged about the suspect in the assassination of conservative icon Charlie Kirk, 22-year-old Tyler Robinson.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Who else do we know that was a top 1% student???

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The left being the ideology of murder is becoming ever more prescient.

• William McKinley – assassinated by a radical leftist
• John F. Kennedy – killed by an extreme leftist/socialist
• Franklin D. Roosevelt* – survived an attempt by a radical leftist
• Gerald Ford* – targeted twice, with at least one attempt by a radical leftist
• Donald Trump* – remains unclear, though indications suggest possible leftist ties given donations to Democratic causes

The Overton window is shifting. As a neutral observer, I see that—especially following recent events (the failed assassination of Trump, the murder of Iryna, and the assassination of Kirk)—the centre-right and right have become less tolerant of open discussion and healthy debate. Instead, they are increasingly adopting tactics associated with the left, like the cancellation of those celebrating Kirk's death.

The political left needs to take a serious look at its rhetoric and messaging given it has contributed significantly to the indoctrination and the radicalisation of individuals.

I like how you ignored the fact that 80% of US political violence has been from the right/far right.

Let me guess, lefties made them do it?

 

[bourbons]

Well i mean King has apologised for his out of context quote. It hilarious they are trying to find out of context snippets and the left are falling for it.

Whats hilarious is people pretending stuff like his stoning gays to death thing was out of context.

"Just asking questions"

 

[raskolnikov]

Some sick people think Izaak Rankine deserved the death penalty

Evidence?

 

[Barrybran]

The left being the ideology of murder is becoming ever more prescient.

• William McKinley – assassinated by a radical leftist
• John F. Kennedy – killed by an extreme leftist/socialist
• Franklin D. Roosevelt* – survived an attempt by a radical leftist
• Gerald Ford* – targeted twice, with at least one attempt by a radical leftist
• Donald Trump* – remains unclear, though indications suggest possible leftist ties given donations to Democratic causes

The Overton window is shifting. As a neutral observer, I see that—especially following recent events (the failed assassination of Trump, the murder of Iryna, and the assassination of Kirk)—the centre-right and right have become less tolerant of open discussion and healthy debate. Instead, they are increasingly adopting tactics associated with the left, like the cancellation of those celebrating Kirk's death.

The political left needs to take a serious look at its rhetoric and messaging given it has contributed significantly to the indoctrination and the radicalisation of individuals.

Neutral observer huh?

 

[Gethelred]

I agree with a large part of your post, especially the first four paragraphs. The rhetoric of condemnation of the assassination of Kirk - while understandable and not unreasonable - has been in stark contrast to the response to 11 unnamed people in a boat being deliberately blown up by the US army just days before.

I disagree with the paragraph quoted above, which implies (or from which I have inferred) that this is something new. There is no new cat out of the bag. There has been a long history of political assassinations by private citizens, both in the US and elsewhere. I don't believe the population at large has been given some new revelation as to the possibility. They already knew.

The point of that section was less that the history of political violence they have didn't exist, but that the state cannot enforce their monopoly of violence to the same degree they once could.

They genuinely fluked it into finding him; without him confessing to multiple people, they'd never have done it. He so nearly got completely away with it, despite it being the era of smartphones and surveilance. Any individual with a gun now has video confirmation and media reports of how much of a hash up the manhunt was as confirmation of how simple it could be for anyone without presidential security.

And you have the footage of him being shot spreading out into the depths internet. Visual confirmation of what it'd look like.

The murder of JFK and the Trump attempts encouraged a lighthearted approach to it; it's in the past, there's too much security, they'll get caught. Now that's gone, and the state slides slowly deeper into anarchy.

 

[kranky al]

Lone wolf he may be, but in terms of his ideology none of us have any idea yet.

didn’t stop Trump claiming he was left….

Playing the we don’t have any idea card now it’s looking like he was a Groyper is hilarious.

 

[Chief]

Groyper

Groypers are the MORE extreme far right trying to eat the 'moderate' far right. Their tactics are to operate like an online grooming gang, essentially. A lot of neurodiverse, lonely, disengaged kids get caught up in their web. Which is why I pity a lot of them as radicalised victims preyed upon by insidious psychopaths.

Hiding this by claiming things like "it's woke-ism what turned them" is, in my view, ignorance or calculated deception, depending on who is putting up the smokescreen and fanning it into bystander's faces.

This includes politicians who think they are clever by courting these types.

The "March for Australia" was seen as a grooming opportunity for people like this, which is why it was absolutely negligent of the organisers to have such poor planning and marshalling. The NSN filled the vacuum.

From the Wikipedia page:

Groypers are extremely conservative and critical of more mainstream conservative organizations, which they believe are insufficiently nationalist and pro-white; thus, they appeal to racists and xenophobes.[15]

Groypers and their leaders have tried to position the group's ideology as based on "Christian conservatism", "traditional values", and "American nationalism".

Some Groypers downplay their positions' extremism, and instruct others on how to engage in entryism and radicalization tactics such as slowly introducing their targets to increasingly extreme ideas.[16]

Despite attempts to brand themselves more moderately, the group is widely recognized as white nationalist, antisemitic, and homophobic.[17][3][18]

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Erika Kirk speech.The wife.

She told “the evil-doers responsible for my husband’s assassination,” that “if you thought that my husband’s mission was powerful before, you have no idea what you just have unleashed across this entire country and this world.”

“You have no idea the fire that you have ignited within this wife. The cries of this widow will echo around the world like a battle cry,” she said. “The movement my husband built will not die.”

Widow of Kirk gives statement after husband’s shooting – as it happened

This blog is closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[kranky al]

They will find a way to blame the monolithic left.

The left didn’t stop him


Bastards!!!

 

[awaremind]

If you read my posts carefully I said from as soon as this happed I didn’t think it was someone the left. However all this glee out of “ the radical left “ whether it was a groyper, Israel , trump , Antifa , Russia , Ukraine or a cartel etc. it’s the pleasure that’s exuding from your posts that’s exposing you guys.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Whats hilarious is people pretending stuff like his stoning gays to death thing was out of context.

"Just asking questions"

Because he’d always say an outrageous thing and then walk it back so he could use the “you’re taking me out of context” when the original statement was the actual intent all along.

 

[Chief]

The political left needs to take a serious look at its rhetoric and messaging given it has contributed significantly to the indoctrination and the radicalisation of individuals.

Case in point.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

If you read my posts carefully I said from as soon as this happed I didn’t think it was someone the left. However all this glee out of “ the radical left “ whether it was a groyper, Israel , trump , Antifa , Russia , Ukraine or a cartel etc. it’s the pleasure that’s exuding from your posts that’s exposing you guys.

The glee came from centrists. They are an odd bunch.

 

[Cooldude]

So Kirk, a right wing hate merchant influencer, was done in by a fan of another right wing hate merchant influencer. Maybe the problem is the hateful speech these people sprout that's poisoning the minds of people, particularly young men, that's resulting in increased violence. Maybe we should stop these grifters from airing so much hate speech in public?

Just kidding, none of you care

 

[Dazzler9]

If you read my posts carefully I said from as soon as this happed I didn’t think it was someone the left. However all this glee out of “ the radical left “ whether it was a groyper, Israel , trump , Antifa , Russia , Ukraine or a cartel etc. it’s the pleasure that’s exuding from your posts that’s exposing you guys.

It's called schadenfreude. And yep, I'm mainlining it into my veins as we speak. So good.

 

[liz]

The point of that section was less that the history of political violence they have didn't exist, but that the state cannot enforce their monopoly of violence to the same degree they once could.

They genuinely fluked it into finding him; without him confessing to multiple people, they'd never have done it. He so nearly got completely away with it, despite it being the era of smartphones and surveilance. Any individual with a gun now has video confirmation and media reports of how much of a hash up the manhunt was as confirmation of how simple it could be for anyone without presidential security.

And you have the footage of him being shot spreading out into the depths internet. Visual confirmation of what it'd look like.

The murder of JFK and the Trump attempts encouraged a lighthearted approach to it; it's in the past, there's too much security, they'll get caught. Now that's gone, and the state slides slowly deeper into anarchy.

I'm not sure that they fluked into finding him. It actually didn't take them very long at all. There was vision captured of him. I'm not keeping a laser focused eye on the various narratives that keep changing, but my understanding is that a family member identified him from the pictures released, and with a name in hand, the law enforcement agencies were able to uncover corroborating evidence.

But if he hadn't been turned in by his family (or persuaded by them to turn himself in), they may well still have tracked him down by other means. It's been less than three days since the shooting - and obviously far less than that time before they had a name to investigate.

In the case of the killing of the health insurance CEO, it took longer before they had a name, and longer still until they located him. And yet that was all done within a week.

 

[Jazny]

The Overton window is shifting. As a neutral observer, I see that—especially following recent events (the failed assassination of Trump, the murder of Iryna, and the assassination of Kirk)—the centre-right and right have become less tolerant of open discussion and healthy debate.

What has Iryna's murder got to do with any of this? It was really awful and sad, but her death was not motivated by left wing ideology. He seems to have mental issues rather than he felt justified killing her for her politics.

Unless I have missed something super new, we don't even know what motivated him to kill Kirk yet. He still could be a far right nutcase. Extremists and murderers can come from both sides of politics.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Bit of conflicting info it seems. If this guy does turn out to be a leftist though , the irony of maga fuming over the 'misinformation' of him being a right winger going viral can't be emphasized enough, with the amount of fake news and conspiracies they have spread online in the last 10 years about everything from mass shootings to elections.

Almost as ironic as dying from a gun shot while championing the safety of guns and saying deaths were worth having them.

 

[Gralin]

Can you explain it to me because the requirements for Valhalla are quite clear:

1. Death in Battle: The most crucial element is dying in combat, with your body slain by a weapon.
2. Bravery and Honor: You must be an exceptional warrior who exhibits bravery and honor on the battlefield.
3. Valkyrie Selection: Valkyries, the divine choosers of the slain, will guide you to Valhalla.
4. Odin's Favor: You must be a warrior who is devoted to Odin.

That last one seems like a deal breaker for both of them. Let alone the previous 3.

You're looking for logic where racist dogma exists

 

[kalex6251]

the mental gymnastics being used by RWNJs to rationalise the news it was one of their own is - in equal measure - both amusing and troubling

 

[Chief]

which I'm leaning toward if the inscriptions on the bullets are true

Please don't fall for this.