USA MAGA activist Charlie Kirk shot dead during Utah rally

[Gethelred]

Okay. We've probably had enough of a free for all.

There are still forum and site posting guidelines, and you will abide by them.

A few seem to be of the opinion that now is a good time to have a crack at moderators or moderation. I'd rather like to discourage that impulse so I'm going to make it explicit: a moderator on this forum is a poster like any other, and can share their views and have free use of the forum like any other. If you feel a post breaches the rules report it; attacking a mod for their posting or objecting to a post purely because a moderator said it is grounds for an infraction and some time off.

From here, if you cannot speak civilly, you will not be allowed to participate.

Thanks all.

 

[GreyCrow]

Context bro

 

[kalex6251]

couch boys position on free speech is .... ahhhhh .... fluid

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/13/nx-s1-5290258/vance-munich-security-conference-trump-putin-zelenskyy-russia-ukraine

 

[Saint Shags]

Not meaning to blow my own trumpet, but I thought this was a quality post that articulated why reasonable people have been disheartened by the response to Kirk's death.

So far it's got multiple laugh reactions.

Numerous people have quoted it- and between all those replies, there was a noticeable lack of fallacy-free, rational responses that demonstrated comprehension, or grappled with my post in a serious way.

Sad.

I replied in good faith. Asked you specific questions and all I got was a shocked face. If you make grandiose statements be prepared to be questioned.


The fact that you then reply using statements of posters lacking comprehension skills or grappling with your intellectual prowess says more about yourself than it does anyone else who replied.

 

[Satan]

even trump calling for the death penalty isnt great

 

[Coolangatta]

Should be easy just blow this thing up

lol.

I mean I’ve been guilty of it myself. Used to be on facebook, twitter, instagram.

Got off that crap, but got on reddit and now I’ve left that behind, too.

Bigfooty is my only vice.

I’m not 100% anti reading news nor am I anti podcast.

At least you’re watching two people having a face to face discussion, just don’t read the comments.

The problem is when the guest or host are also hooked into the algorithm of shit. Or when they themselves read too many comments.

 

[PJays]

I replied in good faith. Asked you specific questions and all I got was a shocked face. If you make grandiose statements be prepared to be questioned.


The fact that you then reply using statements of posters lacking comprehension skills or grappling with your intellectual prowess says more about yourself than it does anyone else who replied.

I'm just going to quote your first two lines.

Again comments that are absolute in nature serve no purpose but to alienate.

So all primary school teachers now condone violence? What was after the 'But'?

sorry, that is just not a serious response in my opinion.

The next part was better in isolation (identity politics issues) but your opening was enough for me to decide it wasn't worth responding.

If that makes me sound arrogant to you, I'm OK with that.

 

[Saint]

It's not the blue-haired 19-year-old they/them uni students laughing on TikTok that bother me. They're unhappy souls and I pity them more than anything. I haven't seen too much of it either.

It's the 30-year-old primary school teacher who says "Well I don't condone violence, but.....".

It's how quickly they pivot to the "but"... and what is said thereafter.

Quotes taken out-of-context, with subsequent commentary seeped in themes of identity politics and woke theories they learnt at uni 10 years earlier which have gradually become a core part of their worldview.

And it's what isn't said - anything about free speech, the importance of hearing those we disagree with, how great it was that Kirk was so committed to entering university campuses and engaging with students, professors and anyone else who would line up for a turn at the microphone.

That's what bothers me.

If that bothers you about the left, then you haven't ever watched any conservative news. They don't even bother with the first part before the "but". They attack the victims outright, ignore things, lie and if they do bother to complain it's hilariously hypocritical because what they accuse the victims of they're usually doing 10x more frequently.

The Conservatives are all-in on identity politics. Their whole movement is best-described as anti-woke and the "woke" is the least defined word ever, because anti-woke just means "here's all the things I hate and want to ban". They're definitely not working on policy-based politics.

The conservatives are banning books while also complaining about a lack of free speech.

 

[the_interloper]

lol.

I mean I’ve been guilty of it myself. Used to be on facebook, twitter, instagram.

Got off that crap, but got on reddit and now I’ve left that behind, too.

Bigfooty is my only vice.

I’m not 100% anti reading news nor am I anti podcast.

At least you’re watching two people having a face to face discussion, just don’t read the comments.

The problem is when the guest or host are also hooked into the algorithm of shit. Or when they themselves read too many comments.

It took me a while but you'll be ok if you just speak to people how you would IRL, not sure I always do this but I'm very mindful of it. I try to get a mix of news services, watch a lot on the ABC, do watch Sky sometimes, hard to take it seriously of course.

Social media is an interesting one, Linkedin might actually be the most painful one in some ways.

 

[Saint Shags]

I'm just going to quote your first two lines.

Again comments that are absolute in nature serve no purpose but to alienate.

So all primary school teachers now condone violence? What was after the 'But'?

sorry, that is just not a serious response in my opinion.

The next part was better in isolation (identity politics issues) but your opening was enough for me to decide it wasn't worth responding.

If that makes me sound arrogant to you, I'm OK with that.

It doesn't make you sound.
It shows you to be arrogant.

If you deal in absolutes then the fact is that it doesn't do anything to alienate.

You start by aiming at identity. Those blue haired they/them folk. And then aim for the 30 year olds. I wonder is it all 30 years old who attended uni or is it primarily one group of blue haired 30 year old leftists that once attended university?

So I'll ask.

Are all teachers like that one 'example' you have given?

Are Universities just a hot bed of leftist propaganda?

Does having blue hair have anything to do with politics?

 

[GreyCrow]

Does having blue hair have anything to do with politics?

Do they have nose and lip rings

Coz they are the agitators

I see them at Colonnades - yes I see you - I know what you are thinking - bloody emoppies

 

[awaremind]

I think there was evidence before about a world wide mourning - I think the favourite ones before Diana was Kennedy and Lennon

Certainly my memory was strongly of Lennons death being mourned world wide for weeks (Kennedy just too early) and one in which I experienced that ' where were you ' moment

Diana is vague - I think I could dredge up a moment but not as specific as Lennon. Kirk ? Do you know if you asked me what day this week I would struggle

I don’t know about you guys but the first one that hit me hard was the assasination of Yitzak Rabin , just as a peace deal was looking possible

 

[raskolnikov]

I'm glad my Bengals were one of five NFL teams who didn't pay tribute to him.

 

[bourbons]

And all the chuds are sending money.

Heard Alex Jones was selling "we are all Charlie Kirk" t-shirts within 48 hours of it happening too.

Unclear if any of the profits from those are going to Kirk's family though, unsurprisingly.

 

[Mofra]

I don’t know about you guys but the first one that hit me hard was the assasination of Yitzak Rabin , just as a peace deal was looking possible

This doesn't get talked about enough. The ME landscape would be far different today had he lived.

Not just Israeli-Palestinian relations, but he was on the path to normalising relations with Arab neighbours.

 

[Borough Blood]

I'm glad my Bengals were one of five NFL teams who didn't pay tribute to him.

He got Joe Cool injured as retribution.

 

[Not Important]

i feel little compassion for his loss. he was a hate carrier, and it's creeps like him who have stoked the violence that may have cost him his life.

"But I do not mourn. Because two things can be true. I feel compassion at the loss of a life, but I am indifferent to the loss of Charlie Kirk. While in death he has been lionised as someone we could all learn from, a ‘visionary’and a ‘great loss’, in reality he was a far-right bobblehead who terrorised anyone he deemed a threat, was racist, saw no value in human life he didn’t himself deem valuable and advocated for guns over life. He was a liar who peddled in misinformation, fear and division, who was hateful and proud of it."

Charlie Kirk died in the America he wanted

I mourn the loss of human life. I feel compassion, empathy and grief at an inexcusable killing. But I find nothing to lionise in his legacy.

amyremeikis.substack.com

 

[Not Important]

Mehdi Hasan (@mehdirhasan.bsky.social)

If you ever had any doubt that rightwing media is just official state propaganda at this point, consider that Charlie Kirk was replaced on his show by the sitting Republican vice president who ‘interviewed’ White House deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller. Independent media!

bsky.app

 

[PJays]

If you deal in absolutes then the fact is that it doesn't do anything to alienate.

You start by aiming at identity.

Using stereotypical examples to make a point does not mean I’m guilty of identity politics like many of Charlie Kirk’s opponents whose minds have been sufficiently polluted they can’t tell the difference between criticism of DEI policies, and racism against black people (to use one example).

I’m not sure how someone reading in good faith could believe I think that all teachers hate Charlie Kirk. I simply meant an educated professional from a moderate or left-leaning profession who is relatively young. I could’ve said “28-year old social worker” as a mere example of an everyday person who I've seen critiquing Kirk.

The Conservatives are all-in on identity politics. Their whole movement is best-described as anti-woke and the "woke" is the least defined word ever, because anti-woke just means "here's all the things I hate and want to ban".

My take on “woke” is it originated from “awoken” to an understanding of injustices- typically racial injustices. But as the scope of perceived injustices grew larger and incorporated things that ordinary people didn’t believe were injustices, or worse, resulted in injustice to someone else, it became meaningless and the right understandably started using it as a pejorative slight against their political opponents. I’m not opposed to making fun of ideas that are ridiculous.

 

[Not Important]

it's because they are beholden to the rightist numbnuts and/or scared of them. and the numbnuts are using it to stoke fear and division. also, helps keep attention away from things like epstein.

 

[Royces Hart]

I’m not opposed to making fun of ideas that are ridiculous.

Such as, black people were better off as slaves and subjugated.

 

[Saint]

Using stereotypical examples to make a point does not mean I’m guilty of identity politics like many of Charlie Kirk’s opponents whose minds have been sufficiently polluted they can’t tell the difference between criticism of DEI policies, and racism against black people (to use one example).

I’m not sure how someone reading in good faith could believe I think that all teachers hate Charlie Kirk. I simply meant an educated professional from a moderate or left-leaning profession who is relatively young. I could’ve said “28-year old social worker” as a mere example of an everyday person who I've seen critiquing Kirk.


My take on “woke” is it originated from “awoken” to an understanding of injustices- typically racial injustices. But as the scope of perceived injustices grew larger and incorporated things that ordinary people didn’t believe were injustices, or worse, resulted in injustice to someone else, it became meaningless and the right understandably started using it as a pejorative slight against their political opponents. I’m not opposed to making fun of ideas that are ridiculous.

But you've lumped all the genuine injustices in with the ones you perceive to be meaningless. In this way, conservatives attack all of them. They use the extreme ones as examples, but for many, that's just cover to continue with all historic injustices and fight against any justice movements (i.e. womens rights, gay rights, Palestinian freedom). This is the crux of the Conservative movement. Trying to tie extremes to the broader justice movement. It's what Conservatives have always done. It's not clever, it's just that there's more information available to go find an extreme.

It's why conservatives hate facts so much. The fact that there are a handful of trans athletes, but bigotry against trans people in extreme cases is used as cover to excuse thousands of bigots wanting to ban things they don't like.

Calling trans people an abomination while thousands of youth pastors abuse kids is the real abomination, but wouldn't they get their knickers in a twist if you banned religion from schools.

 

[Gralin]

PJays you constantly get involved in identity politics, you're also advocating censorship in the name of free speech

It's not the blue-haired 19-year-old they/them uni students laughing on TikTok that bother me.

This is you engaging in identity politics

They're unhappy souls and I pity them more than anything. I haven't seen too much of it either.

It's the 30-year-old primary school teacher who says "Well I don't condone violence, but.....".

again

It's how quickly they pivot to the "but"... and what is said thereafter.

Quotes taken out-of-context, with subsequent commentary seeped in themes of identity politics and woke theories they learnt at uni 10 years earlier which have gradually become a core part of their worldview.

again

And it's what isn't said - anything about free speech, the importance of hearing those we disagree with,

the irony here is literally slapping you in the face

how great it was that Kirk was so committed to entering university campuses and engaging with students, professors and anyone else who would line up for a turn at the microphone.

yeah he was going into uni to spread his identity politics, his religion and his bigotry, awesome, and you don't want to hear from people that disagree with that because apparently its free speech for him but not his critics

That's what bothers me.

cool

 

[Satan]

Heard Alex Jones was selling "we are all Charlie Kirk" t-shirts within 48 hours of it happening too.

Unclear if any of the profits from those are going to Kirk's family though, unsurprisingly.

french version too?

 

[Saint]

Such as, black people were better off as slaves and subjugated.

You don't say that one out loud. You think of that while you say "trans" people can't use the same bathrooms.

 

[Cooldude]

Eventually the violent right wing in America will round up leftists and minorities and start massacring them. This is the natural end point of their hateful rhetoric, normalizing violence and abundance of guns. Jan 6 is just a prelude and they got away with it

The constant attack and corrosion of moral standards using "woke" is part of that process, eventually they want to normalize it and make it acceptable. This Kirk thing was gonna be one of their excuses to do it until they found out it's one of their own that did the hit