List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[saintmike65]

Think you may be incorrect
Won't beat Nth.Melb.
So, need to beat Bullies in the final round.
Percentage will count.

6 in a row..reckon our girls deserve to play finals!

 

[saintmike65]

The same old stuff kept happening when Steel was in the CS, Melbourne game last quarter NAS , Windy, Hall, MacCrea, Boxhall in the CS game gets won...that's your sample size right there.
I was happy to have Steele see out his contract I reckon he will do well at Melbourne...however it's not just 2 years to perform it's 6+, if the team is playing finals NAS will stay.
.
The stuff we saw Nas do this year being mid and Forward of centre imagine what he can do next year with a license to make hay, and Hall the same and a fit Pou, and Ned...it's gonna be sexual

Got a feeling Wilson will be in that conversation too..

 

[saintmike65]

Love the fact we're not going to die wondering.

Have a clear purpose and backing it with ruthless intent.

Pumped for the year ahead.

Seriously hope our latent supporters get on board...our bums on seats need a serious lift

 

[hayes]

That doesn't look unachievable. The better sides now have a really varied mix of scoring options. 2025 looked bad once King went down and exposed the lack of other avenue to goal. Luckily Hall came on like a freight train.

When King went down and Caminiti had to go back the lack of height in the forward line hurt us. We see it all the time in finals, all you need from your forwards is a contest and if King isn’t there we’ll at least get that with Marshall and then the smalls can get to work. I was probably the loudest on two ruckmen can’t work but Brisbane just won a flag with that model so that’s out the door now. They’ve got literally everything else you need of course but they’ve shown it can be done.

 

[bakes10]

When King went down and Caminiti had to go back the lack of height in the forward line hurt us. We see it all the time in finals, all you need from your forwards is a contest and if King isn’t there we’ll at least get that with Marshall and then the smalls can get to work. I was probably the loudest on two ruckmen can’t work but Brisbane just won a flag with that model so that’s out the door now. They’ve got literally everything else you need of course but they’ve shown it can be done.

It also helps when the talls can kick goals too!

Caminiti and Owens lack nothing in courage and appetite for the contest, but I think they need to spend a good majority of the pre-season working on their set shot kicking.

 

[Broski]

V noice

Good to see the boys have let themselves go this offseason... seriously tho, these blokes will be driving standards for a long time. Lets hope we get some luck with injuries this preseason.

 

[Saintbloke]

The best thing about bringing in an experienced operator with gravitas is that he made list of demands that the club agreed to first. Richo and Ratts were not going to go anywhere with the administration like it was. They wouldn't pay for a professional football department and both were set up to fail by neglect.

Lyon has built a staff and structure that is at least the equivalent to most AFL sides now. We'd run the structures down so badly that we didn't even know how it should look any more. The way we are structured up now doesn't guarantee anything but it at least lets you get a run in the race.

Lyon, Richo and Ratts all have one thing in common- none of them have been premiership coaches, and in Lyon's case, even with teams that were capable. Let's see how 2026 pans out.

 

[True Believer]

Lyon, Richo and Ratts all have one thing in common- none of them have been premiership coaches, and in Lyon's case, even with teams that were capable. Let's see how 2026 pans out.

I always just assume now that at some point in the past, Lyon must have run over your cat?

 

[stavro#4]

Lyon, Richo and Ratts all have one thing in common- none of them have been premiership coaches, and in Lyon's case, even with teams that were capable. Let's see how 2026 pans out.

No, but Ross made the big dance with 3 different sides.

He led 09 & 10 in time on.

He had equal scoring shots in 13.

Had his sides kicked straight in 09 & 13 he is a dual premiership coach.

Had the ball bounced to Milneys advantage - he wins 10.

His sides have 6 top 4 finishes and 2 x Minor premier.

What he is a bloody good coach who gets everything out of his sides.

 

[StFly]

Lyon, Richo and Ratts all have one thing in common- none of them have been premiership coaches, and in Lyon's case, even with teams that were capable. Let's see how 2026 pans out.

Ratts was termed as hard done by at Carlton and had personal things, then again it's also Carlton and outside of cheating their way to things they are just a shit joint to work for. he then went to Hawks in an admin role so had the penchant for it just one could doubt that he had the desire to really be a high performing head coach.

Richo's penchant was as a developer of talent, not as a coach so this goes without saying that as a head coach he then massively underperformed and was out of his depth, we just weren't in a position to do much different as this was the austerity of Finnis building our brand and getting us back to Linton instances to have things to play with.

Lyon had two bites at it with us and a bite with Freo, arguably we'd have '09 if ASDA had any balls and they weren't in the AFLs purse but I digress, it was 7pt since discount for that post deflection and there were what 3 fresh air swings in the first quarter alone? And all sides he has had a hand in have gone to the dance and been a spec'd up side.

Chalk and cheese coaches, one can, one might have if his heart was still in it, and one never could.

 

[SainterinSydney]

No, but Ross made the big dance with 3 different sides.

He led 09 & 10 in time on.

He had equal scoring shots in 13.

Had his sides kicked straight in 09 & 13 he is a dual premiership coach.

Had the ball bounced to Milner advantage - he wins 10.

His sides have 6 top 4 finishes and 2 x Minor premier.

What he is a bloody good coach who gets everything out of his sides.

There was a clip with Bevo where he said the best coach he has gone against is RTB. And there is a quote from Chris Scott saying the same thing (who everyone, including RTB, says is the best in the business).

 

[stavro#4]

There was a clip with Bevo where he said the best coach he has gone against is RTB. And there is a quote from Chris Scott saying the same thing (who everyone, including RTB, says is the best in the business).

Might be his greatest work this summer coming.

Has to get it going from here and coach everything he can out of this list.

It’s officially his with players who can play his style for 120 minutes. Personnel is there to now be developed.

We don’t have a Pav. But it looks pretty close to Freo at the end of 2013 talent wise.

Fremantle Playing List for 2013 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[phantom13]

V noice

Needs more Mr.Darcy IMO

 

[Joffaboy]

One thing I liked from moving Steele on is Lyon basically saying to Flanders, Macrae and co, ' this is your midfield' you took the cash to be primary mid here, it is not a superannuation holiday'.
Lyon has put his balls on the line. For 15 years our midfield has been bottom eight, we cried for Petracca, we wanted mids but got hbf'er's in Clark and Coffield, then no going mids really until the last few years recruiting drive.
So by flicking Steele, Lyon has put his faith in the likes of Flanders and Macrae as the leaders with a host of others running through the midfield ( Garcia, Pou, Boxshall, Hall, NAZ, Windy, [PLAYERCARD]Liam Ryan[/PLAYERCARD] and Dow and Caarroll as depth).
I like the risk, with both TDK and Roh through the guts, it will be a high risk, high reward strategy.
It could well fail, however we are used to that and we aren't just sitting on our arse being the Washington Generals forever.

 

[bergholt]

Honestly?

No.

I can imagine a world with the following though:

King: 50+
Higgins: 40+
Sharman & Ryan: 30+
Marshall, Pou & Owens: 20+

That would put us in the realms of Adelaide, Brisbane & the Doggies in terms of scoring power.

Get a few big games from Nas, Hall, TDK...

Maybe a cameo game from Wood, Butler, Collard, Keeler, JSOS, Hammer or Tauru...

We definitely don't lack for options inside 50.

I think Higgo kicks fewer goals with King in the side, because we target him less. But sounds about right apart from that, fingers crossed!


Top three scoring teams this year were Dogs, Geelong, Adelaide. (These numbers are all regular season only.)


Dogs:

60+: Naughton
50+:
40+: Darcy
30+: West
20+: Richards, Kennedy, Bontempelli


Geelong:

80+: Cameron
70+:
60+:
50+:
40+: Neale
30+: Stengle
20+: Dempsey, Mannagh, Dangerfield


Adelaide:

50+: Thilthorpe
40+: Fogarty
30+: Walker, Keays, Rankine
20+: Rachele


Interesting that they all have 6 contributors above 20 goals.

Dogs: 2 talls, 1 small, 3 mids
Cats: 2 talls, 2 smalls, 2 mids (depending how you classify Dangerfield)
Crows: 3 talls, 3 smalls


Ours probably most similar to Crows?

 

[saintmike65]

When King went down and Caminiti had to go back the lack of height in the forward line hurt us. We see it all the time in finals, all you need from your forwards is a contest and if King isn’t there we’ll at least get that with Marshall and then the smalls can get to work. I was probably the loudest on two ruckmen can’t work but Brisbane just won a flag with that model so that’s out the door now. They’ve got literally everything else you need of course but they’ve shown it can be done.

I guess it helps that Ro has some forward craft.
We're well placed for hybrid forwards in Sharman, Owens & Phillipou...plus smalls in Higgins, Ryan, Hall, Henry and Butler, with young Said developing in the VFL!

 

[Broski]

Needs more Mr.Darcy IMO

Gone

 

[Remboy]

I think Higgo kicks fewer goals with King in the side, because we target him less. But sounds about right apart from that, fingers crossed!


Top three scoring teams this year were Dogs, Geelong, Adelaide. (These numbers are all regular season only.)


Dogs:

60+: Naughton
50+:
40+: Darcy
30+: West
20+: Richards, Kennedy, Bontempelli


Geelong:

80+: Cameron
70+:
60+:
50+:
40+: Neale
30+: Stengle
20+: Dempsey, Mannagh, Dangerfield


Adelaide:

50+: Thilthorpe
40+: Fogarty
30+: Walker, Keays, Rankine
20+: Rachele


Interesting that they all have 6 contributors above 20 goals.

Dogs: 2 talls, 1 small, 3 mids
Cats: 2 talls, 2 smalls, 2 mids (depending how you classify Dangerfield)
Crows: 3 talls, 3 smalls


Ours probably most similar to Crows?

I recall Ross saying in his first time around that you need six players kicking 20+ goals. Hopefully next year we'll have that.

 

[Remboy]

V noice

Looks like Tarzan plays like.... Tarzan hopefully. I'm not sure how many clearances he averaged but he did spend plenty of time in the middle (of the jungle).

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Refuse to trade him last year where he would’ve got more years on a deal then delist

I thought the giants were all about compassion

 

[The Punter]

I recall Ross saying in his first time around that you need six players kicking 20+ goals. Hopefully next year we'll have that.

Ross' record (6th leading goalkicker each year)

2007: 10 goals (Montagna, X Clarke)
2008: 12 goals (Montagna, Dal Santo)
2009: 16 goals (Dal Santo)
2010: 18 goals (Montagna)
2011: 13 goals (Goddard, Steven, Montagna)
2012: 15 goals (de Boer)
2013: 16 goals (Mzungu, Suban)
2014: 18 goals (Barlow, S Hill)
2015: 16 goals (Barlow, Neale)
2016: 12 goals (L Weller)
2017: 13 goals (B Hill, Mundy, Crozier)
2018: 13 goals (B Matera)
2019: 13 goals (Lobb, Hogan, Taberner)
2023: 19 goals (Caminiti)
2024: 16 goals (Wood)
2025: 17 goals (Wanganeen-Milera)

 

[SaintWWodonga]

 

[ronnysnodgrass]

is there any chance we (st Kilda management) chose Windy (+Flanders) over McRae + Steele as our inside future, and have setup for a smooth transition?

 

[SG34]

Not only that, we made sure Steele got that extra year in the deal to the existing 2 year contract he got, heard somewhere that’s why we had to tip in some of the salary.

On top of that, we were willing to take a 3rd round pick (where he is probably worth a future 2nd). His manager actually commended the Saints on making this happen with honestly and respect.

So compare to him spending half of the time on the bench, half in VFL after a decorated career to now given the opportunity to prolong his career, get a fresh start and an extra year at the same salary. That’s a win for Steele too!!!

Guess that’s why he was so happy to be leaving.
(He outta toughen up!)

I honestly think we are worse off.
I don’t see five better mid fielders at St Kilda right now, I see three.

But I’m all for the big plan and I trust the pope in the tower.

 

[The Punter]

Guess that’s why he was so happy to be leaving.
(He outta toughen up!)

I honestly think we are worse off.
I don’t see five better mid fielders at St Kilda right now, I see three.

But I’m all for the big plan and I trust the pope in the tower.

On 2025 form you are right: Nas, Macrae and Windy.

But I think we were a little worried about an impending passing of a former captain by Garcia, Wilson, Hall and Boxshall.