List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[gringo2011]

Love this, agree with every single word.

I think it's a great shame we gave up the Pride Match. I understood the need to be a bit more football-centric but that was the one thing we should have fought to hold on to. Won't shock me if another club picks it up in a few years and grows it into something fantastic.

Anyone potting those initiatives as leading to our terrible run of results is living on another planet. The drafting from the beginning of our rebuild through to '21 where we got Nas, Windy and Owens was so unbelievably poor we could have had the entire Geelong coaching and administration staff and I doubt we would have played a final.

First two picks from each draft from 2013 - 2020:

Billings, Dunstan
McCartin, Goddard
Gresham, White
Long, Battle
Clark, Coffield
King, Bytel
Byrnes, Connolly
Allison, Highmore

Besides King we whiffed on every pick - and the other two we got right we lost!

Worth remembering that when people get their back up about the trades for Hill and the like. The way we were drafting we probably end up taking Cooper Stephens with that pick.

I have no issue with pride match or any other initiative to bring in more fans but results are what sells memberships and fills stadiums. He wasn't able to do both at the same time and let the rabble of a footy department string him along.

Drafting cost us more than anything and sacking the recruiter was the most obvious move you could imagine but generally the footy department was a shambles.

Really needed a strong older experienced head of the footy department and then stack the positions with driven younger operators hungry to get a chance in the industry. It doesn't cost huge money if you are willing to take a few risks in appointments.

 

[gringo2011]

Absolutely. And I think it's a good point that St.Kilda as a suburb was a gathering place for people of all sexualities and walks of life. It's as much part of that area's identity as Footscray being working-class, Hawthorn being comfortable and family friendly, Melbourne being inner-suburban lawyer-types, Essendon being a place you'd only live if you really had to, Collingwood being a place you'd only pass through if you had to etc. Identity as a club is important to me, even though I started following the Saints because I could get to Moorabbin easily from Bentleigh.

As far as the indigenous work goes. We have probably the best reputation right now, as far as indigenous players wanting to come here. It was clearly a significant factor in Nas staying, which most people on here agree is one of the most significant things to happen to this club in a long time. I don't care how much time a BigFooty user thinks they spent at a club, there's no telling how valuable or otherwise the groundwork for our indigenous culture during the Finnis years was to the state we're in today.

But, honestly, the concept that working on these things takes away from a club's focus on, and ability to win football matches is about the most moronic, idiotic and nasty/despicable takes that I've regularly heard on social media. It's generally spouted on Facebook with spelling so appalling it's barely comprehensible, and it's really just an excuse to spout self-centered, hostile takes on society in a way that makes the spouter feel like they're not actually being a pr!ck.

We lost matches because of the end of the Lyon/Riewoldt era, the Watters debacle, the McCartin/Billings disasters, other woeful drafting, playing it safe after the Lovett and other incidents, crappy coaches, having our hands tied due to finances, Seaford and countless other tangible reasons. Finnis did his bit to help pull us out of that world into the situation we're in now, which is a pretty optimistic one. People who still blame him for the losses and want an excuse to dribble on with their anti-inclusive attitudes should try to be a bit better imo. It says a lot more about them than it does about Finnis.

The coaches were set up to fail because of the footy department. The indigenous support structures look better run now but who knows how much that contributed.

If we had no money to employ better footy department staff we should have kept one officer and spent on other areas. As I said at the time we should have paid to have the best recruiter money could afford during a rebuild.

Calling it despicable is childish and overly dramatic. It was a period of absolute time wasting with no vision for success. You weren't at the club and a long way of seeing it in action. There was very little chance of us moving forward until we reinstated Lyon and he built the structures to move us forward.

If we'd kept Lethlean, Gags and Rath I think we'd be where Essendon are right now. We talk about sliding doors but we were nearly ready to make Rath and Lethlean the most powerful men at inside the footy club.

 

[gringo2011]

I think strategy with draft picks especially with no 2 years futures trading isnt a science at all yet.

We clearly focused on improving this year and i reckon it was done with very little foresight to the 26/27 drafts.

As it stands we have 2026 1st, 3rd and 4th (enough to go to the draft or do a little bit with a trade, id suggest wed use the first next year as its a better draft and we have to use however many in a 3 year period unless something big is available) and 2027 is just where people were willing to give stuff over rather than any plan.

3rd rounders arent exactly a hot commodity.

2027 is the first Tassie draft isn't it? I think Geelong's future first offered for Marshall might have been for '27.

 

[Michael Scarn]

Has it been confirmed that Geelong offered a future 1st for Marshall?

 

[Joffaboy]

Has it been confirmed that Geelong offered a future 1st for MarMarshall

Yes at 7.27 pm when they had it for 10 days during trade period.
Mackie is a smarmy piece of shit who drinks his own bathwater.
Missed out on both Marshall and Curnow by lowballing. His time has passed.

 

[Xxxx66]

Saints insta did a Hall highlight package today and Nas was in alot of it.

Weve got a wonderful little Trio there with Flanders to add into that mix too.

Spot on. Good things happen when Hally touches ii

 

[Joffaboy]

Saints insta did a Hall highlight package today and Nas was in alot of it.

Weve got a wonderful little Trio there with Flanders to add into that mix too.

Amazed the experts didn't once mention him in post trade analysis of the Saints young players and who can step up.

Will be good to let him fly under the radar. We all rate him here. The experts will find out in 2026.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Yes at 7.27 pm when they had it for 10 days during trade period.
Mackie is a smarmy piece of shit who drinks his own bathwater.
Missed out on both Marshall and Curnow by lowballing. His time has passed.

We should do a top 10 most punchable faces in the AFL. Mackie is right up near the top in my book.

 

[Diehard Saint]

we were nearly ready to make Rath and Lethlean the most powerful men at inside the footy club.

Yep.
Scary stuff

Managed to avoid a catastrophe afaic.

 

[St Neil]

The organic internal growth inside the club is huge.

Players Elite to A grader- Wilkie, Nas, Hall, Marshall, Macrae, Sinclair

Players who could be Elite to A grade next season- King, Flanders, TDK, Windhager, Phillipou, Snags, Wilson, Garcia, Owens, Ryan.

Players with big growth potential- Boxshall, Tauru, Travaglia, Hastie, Said, Dodson, LOC, Collard, Keeler, Hammer.

Solid citizens that could have big years still- JSOS, Wood, Hill, Dow, Henry, Sharman, Howard, Stoker, Clark, Butler, Byrnes.

If we could ever get a good injury run and a bit of luck with the fixture we really could have massive improvement. Just the thought of potentially having up to 16 players that could be playing at an A grade level is so bizarre after we were lucky to find 2 in the Richo era.

St Kilda’s list has been beautifully crafted since 2021. It is set-up to succeed.

Odds are half of the players in the second category (who are potentially elite) will take the big jump into the A-Grade/Elite category.

I’ll go a step further, I think it’s likely that half of the players in the potential growth category will also zoom into the A-Grade/Elite category over the next two years. Give them a little time.

Those lads will also lift some of the names in the solid citizen category.

This is the best list I’ve seen at the club since 2004.

The missing ingredient is the self-belief sauce. Throw that into the pot and you might have something worth bottling.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Just looking at our 2009 and 2010 GF teams. There were some holes to say the least.

 

[Saint Kidding]

St Kilda’s list has been beautifully crafted since 2021. It is set-up to succeed.

Odds are half of the players in the second category (who are potentially elite) will take the big jump into the A-Grade/Elite category.

I’ll go a step further, I think it’s likely that half of the players in the potential growth category will also zoom into the A-Grade/Elite category over the next two years. Give them a little time.

Those lads will also lift some of the names in the solid citizen category.

This is the best list I’ve seen at the club since 2004.

The missing ingredient is the self-belief sauce. Throw that into the pot and you might have something worth bottling.

I'm pretty sure Nas has the sauce. He should share it around.

 

[Minga]

If:

NAS, Hall, King, Pou, TDK, Ryan, Wilkie, Flanders, Windy, Tauru, Higgins, Owens, Wilson, Marshall, Sinclair are all fit and firing next year.

Then:

The Saints marketing team will have the easiest gig in the world.

 

[Username Unknown]

I am excited to see next year the deployment of Keeler, Dodson and Collard with the additions of TDK and Ryan. All three of them could become some of the most exciting players in the comp.

Also doubt Mcrae will be in our best 23 by the seasons end, even a chance to start the season in the reserves.

 

[St Neil]

Has it been confirmed that Geelong offered a future 1st for Marshall?

In the last 5 minutes. They were desperate but wouldn’t cough up.

Geelong offered pick 40 + 2026 1st + 2027 3rd.

Basically a future first and scraps.

We told them to go and jump. Wanted a 1st and F1, not a 1st with junk.

Our player. Our price.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I think it will finally catch up to the Cats. I predict they may have issues making the 8. A big call, I know it!

Not now that they've got Curnow and Marshall and they've improved their umm, , , , oh wait, just a second.

Nope. They're f****d.

 

[Mowman]

We talk about sliding doors but we were nearly ready to make Rath and Lethlean the most powerful men at inside the footy club.

And we were shouted down by the same few when we said back then it would be a disaster if this happened and neither of them were worth a pinch of sh1t LOL

 

[St Neil]

I'm pretty sure Nas has the sauce. He should share it around.

Imagine cocky campaigners like Phillipou and Windhager making the leap into the elite category.

They will drag the other lads along with them.

 

[Mowman]

Saints insta did a Hall highlight package today and Nas was in alot of it.

Weve got a wonderful little Trio there with Flanders to add into that mix too.

The Melbourne game in the last quarter it was Hall that got 1st clearance 3 times at centre bounce and dished off to NAS

 

[ScrappyDo]

And we were shouted down by the same few when we said back then it would be a disaster if this happened and neither of them were worth a pinch of sh1t LOL

What's this "we" crap? gringo was giddy about Lethers and you moan about everything anyway so it doesn't count for anything.

 

[inntheno]

And we were shouted down by the same few when we said back then it would be a disaster if this happened and neither of them were worth a pinch of sh1t LOL

Very interested as to what their shortcomings were seen as? Not privy to such things as really from the outside you simply hear “great appointment, well respected”.
Even from the outside some appointments seem a little “odd/left field” but not so much these two.
With Lethlean I’m aware of his social misdemeanours but not professionally…

 

[ScrappyDo]

Imagine cocky campaigners like Phillipou and Windhager making the leap into the elite category.

They will drag the other lads along with them.

I love Windy but he'll never get to the elite bracket. Mids really need some x factor for that.

 

[inntheno]

Imagine cocky campaigners like Phillipou and Windhager making the leap into the elite category.

They will drag the other lads along with them.

I don’t see Windy as cocky.

 

[Mowman]

What's this "we" crap? gringo was giddy about Lethers and you moan about everything anyway so it doesn't count for anything.

you seem to moan more than gringo and i put together

 

[ScrappyDo]

you seem to moan more than gringo and i put together

Yeah but l moan about you and gringo.
It's different.