Rumour Bluemour Discussion XLI

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[katmanblue]

Call a spade, a spade and stop dancing around the edges ffs.
Does everybody that enjoys recreational substances now have mental health issues?

There is a surprising level of correlation between those with mental health issues having addiction issues.

Not everyone who uses drugs has mental health issues, but most who have mental health issues have some sort of addiction issue.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

There is a surprising level of correlation between those with mental health issues having addiction issues.

Not everyone who uses drugs has mental health issues, but most who have mental health issues have some sort of addiction issue.

There is sometimes an overlap between the two, but it is somewhat disrespectful to place the two issues under the one blanket.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Just get the bad influence aspect out of your mind, the players are grown ups and can coexist with people who party too hard. The concern is around availability on the list and his ability to perform at his peak.

You don't improve standards by having inactive dudes on the list.

I agree with you (on the bolded part)

If the club believes whatever he’s done, deserves Elijah to be sacked from the club and not have the club wrap their arms around him. Then I’ll support their decision.

However, if Elijah has done something so bad to be sacked. WTF are the club letting him train with our players. It doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[gab213]

Call a spade, a spade and stop dancing around the edges ffs.
Does everybody that enjoys recreational substances now have mental health issues?

I hate the term 'recreational substances', they are illicit drugs, and yes, a lot of people who indulge have mental issues, let's be honest here

 

[The Bighouse]

I hate the term 'recreational substances', they are illicit drugs, and yes, a lot of people who indulge have mental issues, let's be honest here

They’re pretty much the same as having a beer. Yes, recreational substances.

 

[Jimmae]

Can we stop conflating these things and putting them together. He doesnt have mental health problems, he has addiction problems. They are not remotely connected.

Its high time professional footballers stopped using "mental health issues" as a mask for their often illegal and criminal acts i.e. assaults, DV, drug issues etc. Its AFL/ Club/ Player Manager PR Policy to wheel out " mental health issues" when a player does the wrong thing. It's disgraceful.

It does a massive disservice to those players that have genuine mental health issues.

Addiction is a medical issue, sometimes with an innate ability to form a physical dependency.

 

[chickendippas]

EH is a fascinating case study - take the emotion out of it for a second (100% it’s shit for him & shit for us) & look at the precedent this sets.

This sure as hell will stop players speaking up & asking for help - there would be plenty of players with “extra curricular habits” / mental health challenges / addiction issues etc.

Sacking EH could very likely cause them to go further underground - not saying we are doing anything wrong or theres better answers (actions need consequences) it’s just really interesting.

Sure AF there’s players running around with the same levels of issues as EH - it’s just hidden/buried & seeing as it’s likely to cost him his career, they sure AF won’t be drawing attention to it.

Such a shit situation to see the talent & opportunity wasted

The club was aware and did what it could to support him.

I won’t touch on addiction or mental health as these are complex issues, but not sure EH’s situation would deter others from speaking up.

It should be a message for others that we will support you, but like anything else, the rest is up to you. If you can’t perform at an elite professional level (on and off field), it may mean that you no longer have a job.

Agree it’s a waste of talent and sad to see such a young guy in this situation.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

They’re pretty much the same as having a beer. Yes, recreational substances.

Sounds like saying machetes are fashion accessories because everyone has one these days

 

[Blue__Balls]

I agree with you (on the bolded part)

If the club believes whatever he’s done, deserves Elijah to be sacked from the club and not have the club wrap their arms around him. Then I’ll support their decision.

However, if Elijah has done something so bad to be sacked. WTF are the club letting him train with our players. It doesn’t make sense to me.

It's the off season and the players are allowed to train with whoever they want to...?

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

None of us know all the details ... so I'm going with Drummer fella above ^ ... sounds on the money to me .. from the outside and taking a punt.

What's the mantra .... In Carlton we trust.... hmm .. ok.. I'm in with making the tough calls
Better than the ol' Business as usual

I've heard what occurred in general terms from a reliable source. I would have thought it was fixable but I don't think it was from a want of trying.

Think about this - he's now been effectively let go by two clubs, for the same issue. I am as progressive as they come on this issue, but if people can't change their behavior when required, ultimately that's on them

 

[Pablito]

So he may stay as a rookie now?

Reckon its a mistake.

 

[carlton_99]

Aren't we over our rookie allotment currently? Would need to upgrade a couple onto the primary list to move him there.

 

[Blugazi]

Aren't we over our rookie allotment currently? Would need to upgrade a couple onto the primary list to move him there.

Cincotta got cut, White may do too.

 

[fizzkakz]

So he may stay as a rookie now?

Reckon its a mistake.

I don't understand this. What does it achieve? Either he plays out his contract with a final chance or he goes. The only thing I can think of is we need another list spot and he's so desperate to stay that he'll accommodate.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Aren't we over our rookie allotment currently? Would need to upgrade a couple onto the primary list to move him there.

We do need to move one off the rookie before the next lodgement.
We potentially get to add one back depending what we do with HOF but that might not play out until the MSD.
So to move Elijah from senior to rookie would currently require two to be moved off the rookie list.
Personally I'd be conservative with HOF and put him on inactive list asap and get him ready for 2027.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

What does it achieve?

He may be off the list until the SSP window which means if he goes off the rails over summer he blows the chance. Potentially even playing VFL until the MSD. So it achieves an exit ramp for us

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Maybe somebody can make sense of the latest rumour...

So, let's say that it happens... we're going to pay him out, delist him, then give him a new contract for next year as a rookie?

Seems stupid to me, if we're going to keep him, why not just keep him on with his current contract then... he's only got 1 more year on it anyway?

 

[I bleed Blue]

I like that snippet from MS3.

Hopefully we rookie Elijah.

Why do I get the feeling the way Carlton are going about this is to scare Elijah straight.

As another poster said if he's such a terrible influence why are they still allowing him to train with the team.

If Carltons plan is to scare him straight they are playing it well.

"Look mate. No other clubs were interested in you during the trade period. Were delisting you, but you have one last shot at an AFL career on the rookie list. Get your act together or you'll be looking back on these years and talent filled with regret".

 

[swuzzlebubble]

if we're going to keep him, why not just keep him on with his current contract then.

Or...if we're going to delist him...why not keep an option open to bring him back under certain circumstances.

I would not assume a rookie contract would be paid on top of current one. He wouldn't be paid out cash now. He'd be paid out as wages during next season.

 

[Stamos]

Maybe somebody can make sense of the latest rumour...

So, let's say that it happens... we're going to pay him out, delist him, then give him a new contract for next year as a rookie?

Seems stupid to me, if we're going to keep him, why not just keep him on with his current contract then... he's only got 1 more year on it anyway?

Cutting him creates a list spot (and the use of extra draft points in the ND).

If it's true, I would assume that rather than taking him in the Rookie Draft, we would let him train over the pre-season with the chance to get back onto the list through the SSP.

 

[Stamos]

I would not assume a rookie contract would be paid on top of current one. He wouldn't be paid out cash now. He'd be paid out as wages during next season.

Yeah.
I'm not sure exactly how the payments work in terms of when the cheques land, but if you get cut with a contract, and then another club picks you up, your original club either gets the portion of the money back from the new contract, or don't have to pay that part out.
You don't "double dip" the cash, or the salary cap space.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Yeah.
I'm not sure exactly how the payments work in terms of when the cheques land, but if you get cut with a contract, and then another club picks you up, your original club either gets the portion of the money back from the new contract, or don't have to pay that part out.
You don't "double dip" the cash, or the salary cap space.

It's like Clarkson not wanting to coach when we were looking. He was to be getting paid out by Hawthorn so any other work he did would just have reduced what he got from them.

 

[Robertio]

I like that snippet from MS3.

Hopefully we rookie Elijah.

Why do I get the feeling the way Carlton are going about this is to scare Elijah straight.

As another poster said if he's such a terrible influence why are they still allowing him to train with the team.

If Carltons plan is to scare him straight they are playing it well.

"Look mate. No other clubs were interested in you during the trade period. Were delisting you, but you have one last shot at an AFL career on the rookie list. Get your act together or you'll be looking back on these years and talent filled with regret".

TBH that has crossed my mind as well.

 

[ferrisb]

I like that snippet from MS3.

I do not.

Doesn't he know that rumours are supposed to be pasted in here so skadoosh and I can repost them in the No Discussion thread?!?!

I mean...what about protocol, people???

 

[Soapy V]

I keep getting mixed messages about Elijah

A few weeks ago he was gone. All over. A few players etc have now pushed his case for one more chance.

The question seems to be will he be accepted into group again? He has really burnt some bridges but maybe time heals all wounds? Trust is what it is all about

Gut feel is he still goes but I am not 100% convinced. Given where we are it's a risk. Going to be a massive call and I think Wright/Davies will be final decision makes on this one