Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on FF *Guilty Overturned on Appeal
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on FM *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

WT - William Tyrrell
FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Leon Higgins]

Very true, and we all need to remember that.
Also
"The lack of evidence for the existence of AA does not necessarily prove that ZZ is true"

Can you answer my question? How do you know there was more than 5 photos?

 

[Cataholic]

That does not mean she did not take the drive, the truck driver was only on the same route for about 5 mins. Also, he may have passed other vehicles he didn't recall. She may have been travelling same direction two minutes ahead or behind him. Many possibilities. And this was how many years later? 10?

He remembers the woman driving the black Camry because she had the audacity to park in an inconvenient location (for him). So there is still no evidence either way on that.

I think this is not the first question that needs answers.
In order
First question...
What happened to William? Lost and perished? Abducted? Intentional murder? Sold to white slaver traders? Accidental death and body hidden? These have all been advanced as theories but to date there is no evidence for any of them.

Only then can you ask the second question, depending on the answer to the first question. As the suspects will differ depending on the answer to the first question.

So until the answer to the first question is known, with actual evidence, there is little point in asking the second question.

What happened to William......in my humble opinion, logic says he is deceased.

How did that come about......well, that's the unknown, and again, in my humble opinion, this is where the investigation has stalled because of the inconsistencies, shoddy police work, and their fixation on the abduction theory to the detriment of any other possibility.

We don't have line of enquiry as to whether it was an accident, manslaughter or murder because there's so little established fact to go on.

The inability to answer this question authoratively essentially renders anything thereafter as mere speculation.

The water was muddied really early, and short of someone cracking to confess their knowledge I doubt it'll ever be solved.

 

[31550]

And this was how many years later? 10?

No. It was 3 days later Peter phoned in to Ray Hadley as per the recording re-posted recently. Actually before the FM reported the drive or the cars to police.

The question is not why Peter didn't see FM, but why FM didn't see Peter.

 

[KEEP MOVING]

That does not mean she did not take the drive, the truck driver was only on the same route for about 5 mins. Also, he may have passed other vehicles he didn't recall. She may have been travelling same direction two minutes ahead or behind him. Many possibilities. And this was how many years later? 10?

He remembers the woman driving the black Camry because she had the audacity to park in an inconvenient location (for him). So there is still no evidence either way on that.

I think this is not the first question that needs answers.
In order
First question...
What happened to William? Lost and perished? Abducted? Intentional murder? Sold to white slaver traders? Accidental death and body hidden? These have all been advanced as theories but to date there is no evidence for any of them.

Only then can you ask the second question, depending on the answer to the first question. As the suspects will differ depending on the answer to the first question.

So until the answer to the first question is known, with actual evidence, there is little point in asking the second question.

I agree with this. My question was solely for Jim Cricket and not the broader group. So i apologise for the confusion. I thought Jim was more leaning towards abduction theory that is why I asked the question. It seemed he wasn’t buying into any suggestion of an incident at FGM house with FM present. Which is where my thoughts are centred. So no I don’t believe that somebody took William just to be clear.

 

[winyhill]

But where is the semi driver who allegedly did see her?

There is no evidence that a semi driver saw her. She said she saw a semi, doesn't mean he reacalled her. He never came forward, but again that doesn't prove he doesn't exist.

 

[Leon Higgins]

No. It was 3 days later Peter phoned in to Ray Hadley as per the recording re-posted recently. Actually before the FM reported the drive or the cars to police.

The question is not why Peter didn't see FM, but why FM didn't see Peter.

She didn’t see Peter because the drive didn’t happen.

No one on Benaroon drive saw her drive because it didn’t happen.

Then logically….

No one saw the cars on the street because they were not there.

Just about every facet of this case that relies on her testimony should be doubted until proven beyond doubt using other means.

Guilty people lie, Innocent people have no reason to lie.

 

[Leon Higgins]

There is no evidence that a semi driver saw her. She said she saw a semi, doesn't mean he reacalled her. He never came forward, but again that doesn't prove he doesn't exist.

You still haven’t answered my question. How do you know? Are you an insider?

 

[passball]

Was it reported if anyone else was at FGM'S that day?
I remember reading FGM had a male friend? Was he a pilot?
I can't remember

 

[31550]

Jubelin has repeatedly stated he believes the FM is completely innocent.
Has Jubelin ever stated where and when he believes the FM drove FGM car? What evidence does he have to support this belief? If she didn't drive the car, why does Jubelin think she said she did?
What is Jubelin's accepted timeline of events between 9am and 11am?
Has Jubelin ever stated whether he accepts there were 3 cars in Benaroon Drive that morning as per FM narrative?
If he does accept this, what efforts did he make to identify these cars and their drivers? Why did he not order a public appeal to find these cars and drivers?
If he doesn't believe in the three cars, why does he believe the FM insists they were there?
Has Jubelin ever explained how and why the FM deleted the 'Home in 5' text message?
Why did Jubelin never order forensic examination of the FGM car?
Where does Jubelin think SFR should be focussing their attention if not on the FM, and why?

Actually to answer some of my own questions, we do know Jubelin believes the FM drove FGM car as she says. Because he uses this narrative in his own book (I catch Killers). He states it as fact. So how does he know this? What proof did he find, and why won't he share it to prove his point? Or was it sloppy police work in his part? He was willing to stake $1M of public money and his own reputation declaring her innocence. Where's the proof?

 

[PetterdHoisted]

I'm sure you have all seen it, but this article on 'noble cause corruption' is good

‘Noble Cause Corruption’: Police Committing Crimes to Achieve Criminal Convictions

Noble cause corruption involves use of illegal or unethical means to achieve desirable outcomes; in other words, the end justifies the means, whatever the means may be.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

 

[winyhill]

Can you answer my question? How do you know there was more than 5 photos?

I have been following this case since the very first day it happened. I cant recall now and CBF looking for it but in one of the books or at the inquest it was stated that she had taken many photos that morning. Of the children together, the sister alone, , etc. As the FGM had sold the property and this would be their last trip there. But not all these were released by the coroner. If you research you may find more.
FM was going to hand the camera to FGM with these memories. She apparently took dozens,

I can see you have only recently been following this, there is sooo much back story that is can be hard to keep track of.

 

[winyhill]

The lack of evidence for the existence of something does not necessarily prove that it does not exist at all.

She didn’t see Peter because the drive didn’t happen.

No one on Benaroon drive saw her drive because it didn’t happen.

Then logically….

No one saw the cars on the street because they were not there.

We cant say that. You are again confusing lack of evidence of one thing as proof of another thing. What is your proof it didn't happen. i have no view either way because their is no EVIDENCE either way.

 

[Curious Clues]

There is no evidence that a semi driver saw her. She said she saw a semi, doesn't mean he reacalled her. He never came forward, but again that doesn't prove he doesn't exist.

Why did she omit her drive from her public story? She had a detailed description of seeing the truck driver look at her, acknowledge her and slowly drive past her. She was allegedly looking for William up there so why has she never been suspicious of the truck driver she claims she saw? And why has she never appealed to the public for him to come forward or provide info about him?
Her alleged truck driver guy is supposedly her ONLY independent witness for the drive that morning. Why wouldn’t she want him identified?
If the alleged drive was so innocent, there is absolutely no logical reason for her to omit this critical part of her search in police statements and hours upon hours of media recordings about the disappearance.
IMO

 

[Curious Clues]

I have been following this case since the very first day it happened. I cant recall now and CBF looking for it but in one of the books or at the inquest it was stated that she had taken many photos that morning. Of the children together, the sister alone, , etc. As the FGM had sold the property and this would be their last trip there. But not all these were released by the coroner. If you research you may find more.
FM was going to hand the camera to FGM with these memories. She apparently took dozens,

I can see you have only recently been following this, there is sooo much back story that is can be hard to keep track of.

I wouldn’t be relying on those books for factual and accurate information.

 

[31550]

Why did she omit her drive from her public story? She had a detailed description of seeing the truck driver look at her, acknowledge her and slowly drive past her. She was allegedly looking for William up there so why has she never been suspicious of the truck driver she claims she saw? And why has she never appealed to the public for him to come forward or provide info about him?
Her alleged truck driver guy is supposedly her ONLY independent witness for the drive that morning. Why wouldn’t she want him identified?
If the alleged drive was so innocent, there is absolutely no logical reason for her to omit this critical part of her search in police statements and hours upon hours of media recordings about the disappearance.
IMO

If there was a semi trailer on BCR it was there for a reason. Making a delivery or collecting something, or returning home. Very few properties there to check and identify the truck and the driver. Easy for SFR to find out who had a semi trailer visit that morning.

 

[Underarrest_]

There are lots of kids in Kendallarea. Why do you think they would target William. He is not special .He is only visiting for a few days. There are 3 adults expected to be at the house. He has allegedly not visited for some months. Why would they possibly think he would be alone in the front yard on Friday morning.
And park cars that could have been seen and identified by neighbours. So many people involved.
With respect, this does not sound plausible.

i have my thoughts but I won’t go into detail.

 

[Underarrest_]

She didn’t see Peter because the drive didn’t happen.

No one on Benaroon drive saw her drive because it didn’t happen.

Then logically….

No one saw the cars on the street because they were not there.

Just about every facet of this case that relies on her testimony should be doubted until proven beyond doubt using other means.

Guilty people lie, Innocent people have no reason to lie.

If FM didn’t drive then where was William?

 

[Jim Cricket]

I agree with this. My question was solely for Jim Cricket and not the broader group. So i apologise for the confusion. I thought Jim was more leaning towards abduction theory that is why I asked the question. It seemed he wasn’t buying into any suggestion of an incident at FGM house with FM present. Which is where my thoughts are centred. So no I don’t believe that somebody took William just to be clear.

I'm not leaning anywhere. I've seen no evidence either way. Open mind. Regardless of whatever anyone in here thinks or wants, it's of no consequence without evidence. And by evidence I'm talking about things that tell us what happened to William, not something like FM had peanuts for dinner and people that eat peanuts are more likely to murder a child.

 

[KEEP MOVING]

I'm not leaning anywhere. I've seen no evidence either way. Open mind. Regardless of whatever anyone in here thinks or wants, it's of no consequence without evidence. And by evidence I'm talking about things that tell us what happened to William, not something like FM had peanuts for dinner and people that eat peanuts are more likely to murder a child.

Ok , great. We can leave it there then. And your not going to share your thoughts on why FM is so unfairly targeted? So we can leave that there too. Thanks

 

[Jim Cricket]

If there was a semi trailer on BCR it was there for a reason. Making a delivery or collecting something, or returning home. Very few properties there to check and identify the truck and the driver. Easy for SFR to find out who had a semi trailer visit that morning.

Because Batar Creek Road is a deadend street that ends at Kendall and leads to nowhere else? Oh wait, it runs on to Albert St so maybe it does lead to somewhere other than Kendall. Maybe those with tunnel vision don't realise it.

 

[Curious Clues]

Because Batar Creek Road is a deadend street that ends at Kendall and leads to nowhere else? Oh wait, it runs on to Albert St so maybe it does lead to somewhere other than Kendall. Maybe those with tunnel vision don't realise it.

Apparently at the inquest Peter the truck driver described Batar Creek Road as a 1960’s goat track. So probably not a common thoroughfare route for big trucks.

 

[Underarrest_]

Apparently at the inquest Peter the truck driver described Batar Creek Road as a 1960’s goat track. So probably not a common thoroughfare route for big trucks.

Only have to google Barter Creek rd to find a truck on it. I did this earlier in the thread.
Trucks/semis travel many rural roads for many reasons.
Not saying FM came across one but it’s possible.

 

[Curious Clues]

Only have to google Barter Creek rd to find a truck on it. I did this earlier in the thread.
Trucks/semis travel many rural roads for many reasons.
Not saying FM came across one but it’s possible.

Definitely in the last 5-6 years due to construction. They have even built a roundabout at Benaroon Drive.

 

[Underarrest_]

Definitely in the last 5-6 years due to construction. They have even built a roundabout at Benaroon Drive.

Definitely more in recent years.

 

[Underarrest_]

There was a case years ago where a couple were towing their caravan in Qld and a semi driver ran into them and they ran off the road and died. The semi driver kept going.
It wasn’t until years later when an officer was off duty and came across a driver at a servo in the same colour semi they’d been looking for (paint left on the caravan) and he started a conversation with the driver to find out what he’d been up too (routes/type of work etc) and then through investigations charged him.
I would have thought at the time they’d have the semi on cctv or witnesses who’d seen him driving but it was a chance encounter that cracked the case.