Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on FF *Guilty Overturned on Appeal
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on FM *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

WT - William Tyrrell
FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Earls Smother]

Hypothetically, if you had a criminal secret you vowed never to speak of ever again, would you randomly start speaking about it 6 years later when that secret is still red hot?
A crime doesn’t need to be perfect to remain unsolved. Theres circumstantial missing person cases like Lynette Simms (Dawson), no physical evidence and no body, Chris Dawson convicted of murder.
IMO

Circumstantial cases like Dawson and to a large extent Greg Lynn, are more solvable because it is relatively easy to prove that only one person can have been responsible. The exact how and why might not be known, but the "who" is easy enough, because everyone else can be eliminated.

There is no way this case will be solved circumstantially, because there are still multiple scenarios and persons of interest on the table.

 

[31550]

Looking at this from all angles,
Is the FM’s narrative the truth?
Part of it is truth (unless for those who believe that William wasn’t there at all that morning.)
Is the police tactic trying to get to the truth?
Did William go down looking for Daddy’s car?

Of course part of it is the truth. They certainly drove to Kendall - they are on CCTV at McDonalds.
Of course part of it is not the truth - it cannot be all true if it contradicts itself, or contradicts known facts.
Of course police are going to try to get the truth.

Why would you single out the 'looking for Daddys car' part though?
Not even the FM asserts this as truth - she says maybe he did.
But it's unlikely. Sniffer dogs didn't detect William's scent off the property. FF didn't see him when he drove up. FM couldn't find him when she went looking for him. Mowing man didn't see him. No neighbours saw him. And he was supposed to be wearing a Spiderman suit. He had only been gone '5 minutes' when FF arrived at 10.30. So if he went looking for FF car, then why wasn't he ever found? Because something else must have happened, and whatever that something else was, the 'looking for Daddys car' part becomes pretty irrelevant, don't you think?

 

[Leon Higgins]

Do you know if police talked to Peter the taxi man?
Is that your theory, Peter took him?

No. Peter has nothing to do with it. Peter was targeted on the first day by the FGM. Very first victim of the Fosters. His house was searched the very first day.

I have a very different view of the truth. I know others here share similar views but only differ in the details.

Not something that can be aired in this forum I am afraid.

 

[Cataholic]

Of course part of it is the truth. They certainly drove to Kendall - they are on CCTV at McDonalds.
Of course part of it is not the truth - it cannot be all true if it contradicts itself, or contradicts known facts.
Of course police are going to try to get the truth.

Why would you single out the 'looking for Daddys car' part though?
Not even the FM asserts this as truth - she says maybe he did.
But it's unlikely. Sniffer dogs didn't detect William's scent off the property. FF didn't see him when he drove up. FM couldn't find him when she went looking for him. Mowing man didn't see him. No neighbours saw him. And he was supposed to be wearing a Spiderman suit. He had only been gone '5 minutes' when FF arrived at 10.30. So if he went looking for FF car, then why wasn't he ever found? Because something else must have happened, and whatever that something else was, the 'looking for Daddys car' part becomes pretty irrelevant, don't you think?

I don't think it has much relevance to what happened, and it's just my opinion, but I'm also wary that such a seemingly casual comment wasn't injected into the conversation to sow further confusion and distraction a la the 'went for a drive' narrative.

 

[Leon Higgins]

I could paint exactly the same alternative scenario for everything you and others say about the FM.

Where is the evidence? Where is the body? Why didn't they incriminate themselves on the listening devices? Did the FD have her entire memory erased, to have never said anything as she grew older? Why didn't they have their stories more aligned if they were concocting alibis?

The police targeted Spedding and Savage with no evidence. Then they pivoted to target the FM with still no evidence. The most likely occurrence when there is absolutely no evidence, is a totally random event, that by its nature leaves no evidential trail, barring eyewitnesses.

I agree a burglary would make more sense at night. Maybe they were going to pretend to be doing tradie type work? It is all guesswork, but some people would much rather guess with a known entity, because there is something to actually pick apart. A random abduction leaves people with very little to discuss, which is why similiar disappearances get very little attention compared with this one.

Madeleine McCann and Jon Benet Ramsey get similiar attention, because of the intrigue of possible parental involvement. Generally if a parent is involved, with absolutely no prior planning, they are going to make mistakes. How has the FM managed to defy history by not making one single error, in committing what would have to have been the perfect crime?

Relying on the testimony of a four year old shows just how gullible you are. Look at the research. This is another aspect of the case that was screwed up.

I don’t think she saw her brother killed.

 

[31550]

Relying on the testimony of a four year old shows just how gullible you are. Look at the research. This is another aspect of the case that was screwed up.

I don’t think she saw her brother killed.

And even if she did she may not have understood what exactly was going on. Or she may have been persuaded / convinced that she saw something else.

 

[Grassy_Knoll]

The problem with you is, you jump in at any opportunity when others might ask another poster a particular question. I asked Underarrest a specific question in relation to something they had posted. I'm not interested in what you might think, because I read about it every day.

It is reasonable to assume that most people who support the "FM did it", are basing that on the police theory. To come up with alternative versions of what she did, is just nonsensical. The police might be wrong, but they do have more information than any of us.

The amount of stuff I have read lately on here that is factually wrong (not from you) is ridiculous. Her phone was not turned off. It was left on the bench inside and she saw the text from the FF just before he arrived home. Then the FF apparently wandered on foot for hours during the night moving the body to another far off location. It is known that he and FM checked periodically throughout the night with the command centre. Therefore the command centre knew when and what he was doing, apart from a brief search on foot in the early morning. He would have had no time to physically carry William any distance, let alone dispose of the body in a manner that has meant it has never been found. I won't even mention the photos...

Some of these recently joined posters need to go back and read the earlier threads. There is that much contradictory rubbish being written, that the thread is becoming unreadable.

I hope you had a good birthday recently
Why do you get angry all of a sudden with posters who question the public version of events?
Sounds like you're very invested and touchy about anyone who doesn't go with the abduction version. Why?
Why was the MFC running late (according to FM) to get to Lakewood that morning, after being up at sunrise?
What really happened between 9:17am and 9:31am at Lakewood Shopping Centre?
Why has it never been revealed who Wendy Hudson was on the phone to that morning around 9:22am?
Where's Wendy? Surely, if she's got nothing to hide you'd want to reveal (even at an inquest) who that caller was to eliminate yourself from any suspicion.
The cops initially never took neighbour RD, who was present at the courts, seriously. Why?
How do you know William wasn't carried? No one in 11 years has ever mentioned him being carried or not being carried.
What if there's corruption in this case, that those who know the truth are being protected, even at high levels?
Is that the real reason there's not enough evidence because lines have been blurred?
The 3 of us...4 of us... I took 3 photos...but 5 released?

Happy 2026!
Let justice for William finally begin!

 

[31550]

I don't think it has much relevance to what happened, and it's just my opinion, but I'm also wary that such a seemingly casual comment wasn't injected into the conversation to sow further confusion and distraction a la the 'went for a drive' narrative.

Yep. Deflection, diversion, obfuscation, gaslighting. Don't look over there, look over here. Been happening since Day 1 and accelerated rapidly when Insight got involved.

 

[31550]

I'm sure you have all seen it, but this article on 'noble cause corruption' is good

‘Noble Cause Corruption’: Police Committing Crimes to Achieve Criminal Convictions

Noble cause corruption involves use of illegal or unethical means to achieve desirable outcomes; in other words, the end justifies the means, whatever the means may be.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

It's not just police who do this.

It's a very 'human' thing to perform terrible or unspeakable acts, including commit crimes of various types and severity, all in the name of a supposedly 'noble' cause.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that it happened in this case.

 

[Underarrest_]

Of course part of it is the truth. They certainly drove to Kendall - they are on CCTV at McDonalds.
Of course part of it is not the truth - it cannot be all true if it contradicts itself, or contradicts known facts.
Of course police are going to try to get the truth.

Why would you single out the 'looking for Daddys car' part though?
Not even the FM asserts this as truth - she says maybe he did.
But it's unlikely. Sniffer dogs didn't detect William's scent off the property. FF didn't see him when he drove up. FM couldn't find him when she went looking for him. Mowing man didn't see him. No neighbours saw him. And he was supposed to be wearing a Spiderman suit. He had only been gone '5 minutes' when FF arrived at 10.30. So if he went looking for FF car, then why wasn't he ever found? Because something else must have happened, and whatever that something else was, the 'looking for Daddys car' part becomes pretty irrelevant, don't you think?

I think you need to stop pouncing on posters.
It’s a discussion board. It’s not a competition.
No one has been charged let alone convicted.
I have no view on whether FM,FF or/and FGM or anyone else was involved. I don’t know.
Maybe someone run William over.

 

[Leon Higgins]

The limited time frame was on the day of Williams disappearance after FF and FM had arranged to meet after secret text messages/phone calll and explains her drive. The following day I agree he had unlimited time frame basically. FF could have left potentially somewhere between 2am and sunrise the following morning and until he was seen on his return I believe.
Like I said I’m just thinking of possible scenarios. FF and FM could have met somewhere entirely different. I’m just leaning towards where I said as FF knew that area better and knew he could access it the following morning on foot without drawing anyone’s attention (until he was seen returning and questioned).
Deleted texts and FM’s drive has to be linked. And the fake text ‘home in 5’ when really they had just been in each other’s company.
Also really strange they never answered the door to police at FGM house on night of Williams disappearance. Wouldn’t you be anxious and hopeful or them bringing you good news. If your child was genuinely missing in the wild. Unless you already knew otherwise. Just my opinion only.

This is quite important. Where is the source for them not answering the door to the police. If true, they may not of answered the door to the police because they were not actually there.

Maybe they were with William’s body.

 

[31550]

I think you need to stop pouncing on posters.
It’s a discussion board. It’s not a competition.
No one has been charged let alone convicted.
I have no view on whether FM,FF or/and FGM or anyone else was involved. I don’t know.
Maybe someone run William over.

Apparently I struck a nerve.
It's a discussion board, but you don't discuss. You just keep peddling the same flawed narrative over and over again even when it is explained that certain things don't make sense.
Others like myself are trying to make sense out of the few facts.
You seem to be are trying to make facts out of contradictions and impossibilities.

 

[Underarrest_]

Apparently I struck a nerve.
It's a discussion board, but you don't discuss. You just keep peddling the same flawed narrative over and over again even when it is explained that certain things don't make sense.
Others like myself are trying to make sense out of the few facts.
You seem to be are trying to make facts out of contradictions and impossibilities.

Hit a nerve. Don’t flatter yourself. I take what you say as an opinion. We all have them.
What facts?
Have we heard all the interviews, have all of the transcripts, know what everyone said or did that day, know all the evidence heard at the how many year inquest?
It’s interesting that your conversations with those who agree with you are assertive but not so much with those who aren’t so sure.

 

[31550]

This is quite important. Where is the source for them not answering the door to the police. If true, they may not of answered the door to the police because they were not actually there.

Maybe they were with William’s body.

According to Wendy Hudson's statement and notes, she went back to the house around 9pm and was met by the FGM who told her FF and FM were in bed. They sat and talked for 15-20 minutes and then Wendy left. She does not report seeing or hearing FF or FM at this time.

IMO If the command post was manned, then anyone leaving the house would have been seen. But it's not clear from any documents whether or not the command post was manned throughout the night.

When Wendy Hudson returned early the next morning she would have passed the Command Post, but she does not report any interaction between herself and the CP (staff). She reported she went directly to the house where she was met by FM in the carport who tells her FF is out looking for William on his own.

The question IMO is whether or not the CP was manned throughout the night, and by whom?

 

[Underarrest_]

According to Wendy Hudson's statement and notes, she went back to the house around 9pm and was met by the FGM who told her FF and FM were in bed. They sat and talked for 15-20 minutes and then Wendy left. She does not report seeing or hearing FF or FM at this time.

IMO If the command post was manned, then anyone leaving the house would have been seen. But it's not clear from any documents whether or not the command post was manned throughout the night.

When Wendy Hudson returned early the next morning she would have passed the Command Post, but she does not report any interaction between herself and the CP (staff). She reported she went directly to the house where she was met by FM in the carport who tells her FF is out looking for William on his own.

The question IMO is whether or not the CP was manned throughout the night, and by whom?

This is a good question.
I’m just not sure that someone would risk disposing/going back to a body after they’ve contacted police.

 

[Cataholic]

According to Wendy Hudson's statement and notes, she went back to the house around 9pm and was met by the FGM who told her FF and FM were in bed. They sat and talked for 15-20 minutes and then Wendy left. She does not report seeing or hearing FF or FM at this time.

IMO If the command post was manned, then anyone leaving the house would have been seen. But it's not clear from any documents whether or not the command post was manned throughout the night.

When Wendy Hudson returned early the next morning she would have passed the Command Post, but she does not report any interaction between herself and the CP (staff). She reported she went directly to the house where she was met by FM in the carport who tells her FF is out looking for William on his own.

The question IMO is whether or not the CP was manned throughout the night, and by whom?

The sheer casualness with which the police approached this investigation, imo, continues to boggle my mind.

 

[Cataholic]

This is a good question.
I’m just not sure that someone would risk disposing/going back to a body after they’ve contacted police.

Imo it seems people were quite free to come and go as they pleased without observation, so maybe it wasn't that risky.

 

[Underarrest_]

Imo it seems people were quite free to come and go as they pleased without observation, so maybe it wasn't that risky.

From what we know, it doesn’t seem like the Fosters were being watched/ under any suspicion and had an opportunity to go somewhere.
They wouldn’t have known this at the time when they phoned 000. Realised they had to return so he wasn’t found? Maybe.

 

[31550]

Hit a nerve. Don’t flatter yourself. I take what you say as an opinion. We all have them.
What facts?
Have we heard all the interviews, have all of the transcripts, know what everyone said or did that day, know all the evidence heard at the how many year inquest?

The facts are that

• William disappeared without a trace from FGM house.
• The last person who can report seeing him alive was FM. She says he was only gone 5 or maybe 10 minutes before FF returned home.
• Crabbs left home at 8.30am
• FF car is seen on the tennis club CCTV at 8.49am (however the CCTV is found to be out by ~9 minutes!)
• Judith Wilson leaves home around 9am
• A phone call was made to Spedding at 9.03am from FGM landline
• An incoming call from Geoff Owen to FGM goes unanswered at 9.05am
• FM says FGM was having breakfast when the phone call is made
• FGM says in her walkthrough there were no phone calls ("No, no, no, no ... NO!")
• FF starts his conference call at 9.17am
• The Crabbs return home around 9.30am They report hearing a car (one thinks before 10am, one thinks after 10am).
• The 'Roar' photograph is determined to be timestamped 9.37am
• FF has a pharmacy receipt from Lakewood at 10.19am
• Heather Savage leaves for bingo around 10.30am
• FF return home is accepted by police on the basis of text message times to be 10.35.
• After FF returned home, FM spoke to neighbours, walked down Benaroon and back, then dialled 000 at 10.56. This is confirmed by Anne Maree Sharpley who can hear a male voice calling for William when she speaks to FM, and watched FM walk down to the bus shelter and back. AMS also goes and knocks on Savage's door at this time.
• The 000 call is at 10.56 from FGM landline and police arrive at around 11.05am
• When police arrive, FM is on foot in the street, pointed out by neighbours
• When police enter the FGM house, FF is observed coming out of the bathroom

Those are the facts.

Now if you can please weave a consistent narrative around those facts which ALSO includes the three cars, the whole family having breakfast together, the drive to BCR, the bike riding, the tree climbing, the drawing, the photos, the cut hand, the 'home in 5 text', the deleted text messages, ...

 

[31550]

This is a good question.
I’m just not sure that someone would risk disposing/going back to a body after they’ve contacted police.

That's your inference.

 

[Underarrest_]

The facts are that

• William disappeared without a trace from FGM house.
• The last person who can report seeing him alive was FM. She says he was only gone 5 or maybe 10 minutes before FF returned home.
• Crabbs left home at 8.30am
• FF car is seen on the tennis club CCTV at 8.49am (however the CCTV is found to be out by ~9 minutes!)
• Judith Wilson leaves home around 9am
• A phone call was made to Spedding at 9.03am from FGM landline
• An incoming call from Geoff Owen to FGM goes unanswered at 9.05am
• FM says FGM was having breakfast when the phone call is made
• FGM says in her walkthrough there were no phone calls ("No, no, no, no ... NO!")
• FF starts his conference call at 9.17am
• The Crabbs return home around 9.30am They report hearing a car (one thinks before 10am, one thinks after 10am).
• The 'Roar' photograph is determined to be timestamped 9.37am
• FF has a pharmacy receipt from Lakewood at 10.19am
• Heather Savage leaves for bingo around 10.30am
• FF return home is accepted by police on the basis of text message times to be 10.35.
• After FF returned home, FM spoke to neighbours, walked down Benaroon and back, then dialled 000 at 10.56. This is confirmed by Anne Maree Sharpley who can hear a male voice calling for William when she speaks to FM, and watched FM walk down to the bus shelter and back. AMS also goes and knocks on Savage's door at this time.
• The 000 call is at 10.56 from FGM landline and police arrive at around 11.05am
• When police arrive, FM is on foot in the street, pointed out by neighbours
• When police enter the FGM house, FF is observed coming out of the bathroom

Those are the facts.

Now if you can please weave a consistent narrative around those facts which ALSO includes the three cars, the whole family having breakfast together, the drive to BCR, the bike riding, the tree climbing, the drawing, the photos, the cut hand, the 'home in 5 text', the deleted text messages, ...

The facts are that

• William disappeared without a trace from FGM house.
• The last person who can report seeing him alive was FM. She says he was only gone 5 or maybe 10 minutes before FF returned home.
• Crabbs left home at 8.30am
• FF car is seen on the tennis club CCTV at 8.49am (however the CCTV is found to be out by ~9 minutes!)
• Judith Wilson leaves home around 9am
• A phone call was made to Spedding at 9.03am from FGM landline
• An incoming call from Geoff Owen to FGM goes unanswered at 9.05am
• FM says FGM was having breakfast when the phone call is made
• FGM says in her walkthrough there were no phone calls ("No, no, no, no ... NO!")
• FF starts his conference call at 9.17am
• The Crabbs return home around 9.30am They report hearing a car (one thinks before 10am, one thinks after 10am).
• The 'Roar' photograph is determined to be timestamped 9.37am
• FF has a pharmacy receipt from Lakewood at 10.19am
• Heather Savage leaves for bingo around 10.30am
• FF return home is accepted by police on the basis of text message times to be 10.35.
• After FF returned home, FM spoke to neighbours, walked down Benaroon and back, then dialled 000 at 10.56. This is confirmed by Anne Maree Sharpley who can hear a male voice calling for William when she speaks to FM, and watched FM walk down to the bus shelter and back. AMS also goes and knocks on Savage's door at this time.
• The 000 call is at 10.56 from FGM landline and police arrive at around 11.05am
• When police arrive, FM is on foot in the street, pointed out by neighbours
• When police enter the FGM house, FF is observed coming out of the bathroom

Those are the facts.

Now if you can please weave a consistent narrative around those facts which ALSO includes the three cars, the whole family having breakfast together, the drive to BCR, the bike riding, the tree climbing, the drawing, the photos, the cut hand, the 'home in 5 text', the deleted text messages, ...

Did FM see two cars parked?
Did the children ride their bikes and FM saw another car?
Did FM take William around the trees collecting leaves?
The children were drawing and photos taken (unless proved not taken that day.)
FM cut her hand.
FF sent a text at 10.33.

I agree the text from FF deleted is strange and the 6 weeks of text messages from FF phone is strange.
I also find the phone calls/attempted phone calls to/from others on the day strange.

 

[31550]

Imo it seems people were quite free to come and go as they pleased without observation, so maybe it wasn't that risky.

In any case probably less risky than having police find the body the next day.

 

[Curious Clues]

Why didn’t Jubelin get a sketch drawn of ol thick neck dudes greenish/greyish car and the truck?

 

[Leon Higgins]

According to Wendy Hudson's statement and notes, she went back to the house around 9pm and was met by the FGM who told her FF and FM were in bed. They sat and talked for 15-20 minutes and then Wendy left. She does not report seeing or hearing FF or FM at this time.

IMO If the command post was manned, then anyone leaving the house would have been seen. But it's not clear from any documents whether or not the command post was manned throughout the night.

When Wendy Hudson returned early the next morning she would have passed the Command Post, but she does not report any interaction between herself and the CP (staff). She reported she went directly to the house where she was met by FM in the carport who tells her FF is out looking for William on his own.

The question IMO is whether or not the CP was manned throughout the night, and by whom?

So the FF was not there the next morning. Surely if the command post was manned he would have been seen leaving. It must not have been manned through the night. The question as to whether the vehicles were also there at all times is also not clear during the night. We know an ambulance was called. Did he leave with it? Did he stay? Was this a distraction?

 

[Curious Clues]

So the FF was not there the next morning. Surely if the command post was manned he would have been seen leaving. It must not have been manned through the night. The question as to whether the vehicles were also there at all times is also not clear during the night. We know an ambulance was called. Did he leave with it? Did he stay? Was this a distraction?

The command post was set up on the lower grassy driveway. FF probably walked out through the top carport that has a door into the house, wouldnt have been seen from the command post IMO.