List Mgmt. 2025 List Management III 📃

[JimmyRabbit49]

Someone needs to emerge out of nowhere as a strong second tall defender alongside Weitering. No idea where our defensive run comes from.

Cripps has to wind the clock back two years. Cerra and Walsh need to finally stay fit and play a full season. Jagga needs to fire.

The forward line has to function despite losing the number one option and having no clear 30+ goal kicker outside of Harry.

And 22 footballers need to learn how to kick it to a target.

I just don’t see any of this happening.

"The forward line has to function despite losing the number one option and having no clear 30+" Hayward kicked 29 goals from 21 games last year, and 41 from 26 the year before. 5 times in 9 seasons has he averaged enough goals a game to kick 30 goals in a season (3 times in the last 4 years).

"No idea where our defensive run comes from." Florent, Saad, Cowan & Carroll. Newman coming back will release other (like Saad) to play more attacking.

 

[BlueLocke]

Just a time trial, but can’t hurt White’s chances of winning a spot.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Just a time trial, but can’t hurt White’s chances of winning a spot.

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Good to see so many young players doing well. I wonder where the Hollands brothers are? Not in the photos and surely locks for top 5 if they run. Looks like Walsh is there. Surprised he didnt finish higher.

 

[Soapy V]

Someone needs to emerge out of nowhere as a strong second tall defender alongside Weitering. No idea where our defensive run comes from.

Just having this discussion with a very learned poster from here

What will we do with our defence? As good as Haynes, Newman, Saad, McGovern have been we can't play them all and they aren't the future.

Weitering needs support and we need to really add to our run from defence. This includes better ball use. We are also in a reset and need to develop the next group.

IMO Dean will play 15 games. Great development. We then need to play a Haynes or Young to help Weitering. HOF will be a beauty but not available until late

The key then is our run. We have Florent, Saad, Boyd, Wilson, Ollie, Lucas, Charleson, Carroll, Cowan, Monahan, Chesser who can all play there. Then there is Newman who is 33

IMO we need and eye on the future and to develop our next great defence built around Weiteirng, HOF and Dean. The modern game is run and attack from defence. We have been slow. What Voss does will be interesting

 

[Blue By Blood]

"The forward line has to function despite losing the number one option and having no clear 30+" Hayward kicked 29 goals from 21 games last year, and 41 from 26 the year before. 5 times in 9 seasons has he averaged enough goals a game to kick 30 goals in a season (3 times in the last 4 years).

"No idea where our defensive run comes from." Florent, Saad, Cowan & Carroll. Newman coming back will release other (like Saad) to play more attacking.

Playing devils advocate here..
Those are some nice options on paper.
BUT.. Saad has only ever showed cameos of providing run. Whether this is because he's been tagged and we aren't able to free him up or whether he doesn't back himself I don't know. But when he does go on long runs he tends to just hoof the ball rather than lowering the eyes. Great player but not sure he's the answer of who we want running the ball.

Cowan I really like. I think he will be a great player. But to this point has purely been a defensive stopper. Doesn't have elite speed either. Not sure he will ever be that run and carry type as a defender. I'd like him tried on a wing potentially if his fitness allows.

Carroll has a beautiful kick but I'm not sure he has the line breaking ability. In time he may become that neat, calm general type.

Newman ditto Carroll except in the back end of his career.

Florent is the addition which in theory should allow for some run and carry. Maybe he frees up Saad a bit also like you say. Newman and Saad aren't spring chickens anymore (in a football sense) so whilst they are best 23, we really need to be blooding the future. Maybe a guy like Wilson can be the guy we need to create some run.

So just like our small forward conundrum of having a lot of names on paper but none who actually crumb the ball and play as genuine smalls (aka all play better when they are able to push higher up the ground).. we have a glut of names who can be pencilled in at half back but none who really create that effective run and carry whilst still being able to deliver by foot and be creative/dangerous (at least not yet). Maybe we get that development and someone surprises us. Here's to hoping.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Playing devils advocate here..
Those are some nice options on paper.
BUT.. Saad has only ever showed cameos of providing run. Whether this is because he's been tagged and we aren't able to free him up or whether he doesn't back himself I don't know. But when he does go on long runs he tends to just hoof the ball rather than lowering the eyes. Great player but not sure he's the answer of who we want running the ball.

Cowan I really like. I think he will be a great player. But to this point has purely been a defensive stopper. Doesn't have elite speed either. Not sure he will ever be that run and carry type as a defender. I'd like him tried on a wing potentially if his fitness allows.

Carroll has a beautiful kick but I'm not sure he has the line breaking ability. In time he may become that neat, calm general type.

Newman ditto Carroll except in the back end of his career.

Florent is the addition which in theory should allow for some run and carry. Maybe he frees up Saad a bit also like you say. Newman and Saad aren't spring chickens anymore (in a football sense) so whilst they are best 23, we really need to be blooding the future. Maybe a guy like Wilson can be the guy we need to create some run.

So just like our small forward conundrum of having a lot of names on paper but none who actually crumb the ball and play as genuine smalls (aka all play better when they are able to push higher up the ground).. we have a glut of names who can be pencilled in at half back but none who really create that effective run and carry whilst still being able to deliver by foot and be creative/dangerous (at least not yet). Maybe we get that development and someone surprises us. Here's to hoping.

"Cowan I really like. I think he will be a great player. But to this point has purely been a defensive stopper. Doesn't have elite speed either. Not sure he will ever be that run and carry type as a defender." In his first 2 years Cowan averaged only about 200m gained - after he returned to the side in round 17 last year he averaged 378m gained over the 8 games - he has the potential to be a very good rebounding defender.

He is a player on the cusp of a breakout year IMO - 38 games under his belt having his 3rd full pre-season and just turned 21.

Carroll (3 bloke who just came 3rd in the 2km time trial) I think could be more of a line breaker than you think but lets just say we only end up with he and Newman being able to set us up with elite aggressive kicks with Florent & Cowan creating some overlap run off those kicks suddenly the rebound out of defence looks very good even without a contribution from Saad or O Hollands

 

[kreuze_missile]

Newman coming back will release other (like Saad) to play more attacking.

I don't think Saad is in our best 25.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Bit to like. Will we do another Hudson O'Keefe and bring another developing Tall in?

Now that HO'K has been repurposed as a key forward, technically we're down to 2 genuine rucks on the list. One of them a very good back up ruckman, and the other an unknown quantity who's played 3 AFL games as a 25yo.

Bringing in someone like Murray gives us the opportunity to develop a genuine ruck/forward, especially after losing TDK, Curnow and Lemmey in a single hit.

I think someone mentioned it previously, but having Elijah and White as the 2 train-ons when we only had the single spot to fill, suggests that White was there as a fall-back if Elijah didn't meet the standards to be offered the list spot. Now a second spot has become available, it potentially opens up other possibilities.

 

[Soapy V]

Now that HO'K has been repurposed as a key forward, technically we're down to 2 genuine rucks on the list. One of them a very good back up ruckman, and the other an unknown quantity who's played 3 AFL games as a 25yo.

Bringing in someone like Murray gives us the opportunity to develop a genuine ruck/forward, especially after losing TDK, Curnow and Lemmey in a single hit.

I think someone mentioned it previously, but having Elijah and White as the 2 train-ons when we only had the single spot to fill, suggests that White was there as a fall-back if Elijah didn't meet the standards to be offered the list spot. Now a second spot has become available, it potentially opens up other possibilities.

Last year we had people training and brought in names from outside. Just becuase they are training with us doesn't mean they are our only options.

I don't know what we will do but I do know we have a long list of names that we are considering before Motlop injury.

I still see this year as a reset and a year of development for many. Our list has too much youth not to try and develop them. Adding another tall would be good. Just depends if we rate any.

As I said I believe we need another tall on our list. What the club will do I have no idea

 

[Soapy V]

"Cowan I really like. I think he will be a great player. But to this point has purely been a defensive stopper. Doesn't have elite speed either. Not sure he will ever be that run and carry type as a defender." In his first 2 years Cowan averaged only about 200m gained - after he returned to the side in round 17 last year he averaged 378m gained over the 8 games - he has the potential to be a very good rebounding defender.

He is a player on the cusp of a breakout year IMO - 38 games under his belt having his 3rd full pre-season and just turned 21.

Carroll (3 bloke who just came 3rd in the 2km time trial) I think could be more of a line breaker than you think but lets just say we only end up with he and Newman being able to set us up with elite aggressive kicks with Florent & Cowan creating some overlap run off those kicks suddenly the rebound out of defence looks very good even without a contribution from Saad or O Hollands

Florent will play HB and can create
Saad I think will struggle and Cowan should be better if allowed to attack and not be too defensive.
It's names like Wilson, Carroll, Charleson that I really hope step up. They have what we badly need

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

I don't think Saad is in our best 25.

Good sign if he isn't

 

[AlecDuncan]

So, three spots given no HOF, or Mots?

 

[JJBagger]

So, three spots given no HOF, or Mots?

HOF a chance to return late in the season

 

[kreuze_missile]

Good sign if he isn't

Not really. Im not sure Saad would get a game anywhere else.

2022 was a long time ago. He was poor last year, and Father Time is not kind to footballers that rely on athletic ability.

 

[gbatman]

Saad being the only worry for opposition last season had time out into him strategically and was shut down. Also played more of a defensive back pocket role as opposed to half back.

Saad also suffered from lack of intercepting and midfield pressure. Player like him are at their best when they can play lose and wide and position to receive.

I am happy to have Florent back there but he als had a down year and has copped similar criticism.

Saad will get going again when the midfield pressure picks up and there are other attacking backs for the opposition to focus on.

I don't think it's age, he played a role in a weak side last year that you simply cant play in a weak side. Our group will be much stronger. Let's see.

 

[BluStreak]

I dont believe that Newman will be our attacking HB but more like our stay at home general directing players to ensure we are not left open when we go on the attack. At times he will slip forward and provide an avenue of attack.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I think part of the reason we parted with Curnow is because we've identified that having a load of salary cap tied up in 2 top tier key forwards isnt the right play given the state of the game.

In that sense it wouldnt make sense to go for King, who while younger, is much more one dimensional then Curnow and would cost more in salary.

Also, I think its very wishful thinking to say GC wouldnt match. Their compo pick would likely be late 1st round and we have lots of appealing draft capital to trade for. They would be more then happy to pony up 1.1m-1.3m to keep King, even with their other signings.

I cant see them not matching unless we offer King a ridiculous TDK type deal. Not sure that would be smart.

We'd have kept CC if he hadn't asked to leave obviously so that decision had nothing to do with our cap structure.

I'm not saying GC wouldn't like to match. I just don't think they will be able to. They stretched their cap to the max to get Petracca so I don't see how they could match the sorts of offers King will attract - which will be short of TDK but still massive.

Walter is a good one to keep an eye on too. If he's in and out of the VFL this year he'll have to move on and would be far cheaper.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Someone needs to emerge out of nowhere as a strong second tall defender alongside Weitering. No idea where our defensive run comes from.

Cripps has to wind the clock back two years. Cerra and Walsh need to finally stay fit and play a full season. Jagga needs to fire.

The forward line has to function despite losing the number one option and having no clear 30+ goal kicker outside of Harry.

And 22 footballers need to learn how to kick it to a target.

I just don’t see any of this happening.

I think the talent is there on the list. I totally agree that Cripps, Walsh and Cerra need to extract the digit this season if we're going to be successful.

If they do there's no ceiling on the team.

We've got to be a lot luckier with injuries and absolutely ruthless at selection table. Anyone not hitting targets has to go.

Boyd is a bit of the forgotten man. He and Newman back fit and firing could be huge. I remember well boyd's game on Toby Greene where he kept him right out of it and got him suspended for yet another coward hit. But also Boyd's hard running out of defense and clean ball use has been missed.

So I think the talent is there to fix those kicking issues. It's keeping them at full fitness that remains the forever issue for Carlton. Don't know why. It is hard to create a strong team with 3-6 changes every single week and 8-12 of your best 22 sitting in the stands.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Bit to like. Will we do another Hudson O'Keefe and bring another developing Tall in?

Has some great athletic traits, i don’t watch anywhere near the level of U18’s Coates league and Interstate levels games anymore, for the past couple of years…
The U18’s Championships i still watch and just keeping up with the general players coming through by media…
Actually just put up his profile for Bamboo who is one of many i think has a good eye in following talent coming through…
Imo from watching his performances across the championships and some footage of his other U18 games, his marking is really inconsistent, easy & uncontested he drops far too many he should….

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Just having this discussion with a very learned poster from here

What will we do with our defence? As good as Haynes, Newman, Saad, McGovern have been we can't play them all and they aren't the future.

Weitering needs support and we need to really add to our run from defence. This includes better ball use. We are also in a reset and need to develop the next group.

IMO Dean will play 15 games. Great development. We then need to play a Haynes or Young to help Weitering. HOF will be a beauty but not available until late

The key then is our run. We have Florent, Saad, Boyd, Wilson, Ollie, Lucas, Charleson, Carroll, Cowan, Monahan, Chesser who can all play there. Then there is Newman who is 33

IMO we need and eye on the future and to develop our next great defence built around Weiteirng, HOF and Dean. The modern game is run and attack from defence. We have been slow. What Voss does will be interesting

Form will determine the senior team, i think there’s positives for all if we are winning, but most importantly as you’re alluding to, the defensive lines need to be better structured and organized…
It’s up to the next generation to take their chance when they earn it, no problem with the senior players if they’re playing well, but we need some of these kids starting to dominate the reserves and become the next generation…

 

[kreuze_missile]

I think the talent is there on the list.

To do what exactly? Finish 14th? We are miles off all of the teams with genuine finals aspirations.

If they do there's no ceiling on the team.

Even if everything goes perfectly in 2026 the ceiling is 10 wins. There's no prospect of finals. None.

absolutely ruthless at selection table.

You need 28+ good footballers and competition for spots to be ruthless. I expect another year of shuffling the fringe footballers in an out of the side, and for none of them to have positive impact.

I also expect players like Saad, McGovern, Acres and Fogarty to get plenty of games even though they aren't good enough because there's no-one else to replace them.

Boyd is a bit of the forgotten man.

Boyd is lucky to be on an AFL list. The fact that we have zero rebounding defenders yet he can't get a game speaks volumes about his standing at our club. He showed a bit 2-3 years ago, has done nothing since. I doubt he gets a new contract and I doubt he plays much senior football in 2026. I presume we fielded zero calls about his availability during the trade period.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

To do what exactly? Finish 14th? We are miles off all of the teams with genuine finals aspirations.



Even if everything goes perfectly in 2026 the ceiling is 10 wins. There's no prospect of finals. None.



You need 28+ good footballers and competition for spots to be ruthless. I expect another year of shuffling the fringe footballers in an out of the side, and for none of them to have positive impact.

I also expect players like Saad, McGovern, Acres and Fogarty to get plenty of games even though they aren't good enough because there's no-one else to replace them.



Boyd is lucky to be on an AFL list. The fact that we have zero rebounding defenders yet he can't get a game speaks volumes about his standing at our club. He showed a bit 2-3 years ago, has done nothing since. I doubt he gets a new contract and I doubt he plays much senior football in 2026. I presume we fielded zero calls about his availability during the trade period.

This seems overly pessimistic to me.

We lacked outside run last year - Smith, Florent, Chesser & a fully fit Walsh all potentially address this issue.

We have the likes of Cowan, Carroll & Moir with the potential to have significant break out years (plus Smith is favourite to win the rising star). I also have a good feeling on Ison - based on almost nothing other than his physical attributes.

The Curnow of 2025 isn't a big loss for us and potentially playing McKay high and mid range forwards like Hayward, Moir & Kemp deep might actually help our ball movement (no more just kick it on Charlie's head but being forced to lower the eyes).

Now you could claim I am being overly optimistic but if you can't have some hope and see some potential at this time of year supporting a football club isn't for you - it only negatively impacts your health.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Time will tell, but I feel like the list changes we’ve made end of last season overall will have a more positive impact than negative.
I’m heading into this season actually buoyed by our changes and excited by what we may be able to produce.
There’s been a pivot by the club and let’s see the effect it can hopefully have across the whole club.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

This seems overly pessimistic to me.

We lacked outside run last year - Smith, Florent, Chesser & a fully fit Walsh all potentially address this issue.

We have the likes of Cowan, Carroll & Moir with the potential to have significant break out years (plus Smith is favourite to win the rising star). I also have a good feeling on Ison - based on almost nothing other than his physical attributes.

The Curnow of 2025 isn't a big loss for us and potentially playing McKay high and mid range forwards like Hayward, Moir & Kemp deep might actually help our ball movement (no more just kick it on Charlie's head but being forced to lower the eyes).

Now you could claim I am being overly optimistic but if you can't have some hope and see some potential at this time of year supporting a football club isn't for you - it only negatively impacts your health.

Time will tell, but I feel like the list changes we’ve made end of last season overall will have a more positive impact than negative.
I’m heading into this season actually buoyed by our changes and excited by what we may be able to produce.
There’s been a pivot by the club and let’s see the effect it can hopefully have across the whole club.

I too think the changes made will be in a positive light. It may not mean finals in 2026, but who knows at this point.

Our club has brought in 2 well drilled players in Florent and Hayward who have the Sydney DNA. We have seen the type of player Newman is from coming from that culture, and by all reports, our senior players have stepped up this off season due to seeing the next level standards those 2 have brought into the club.

Chesser for me is the player I wanted all year and believe we will be pleasantly surprised by everything he does and brings to the club.

I have us at the end of 2026 sitting around 9-12th position, but that is expected with the reset we now embark upon. We finished 11th in 2025 so a similar year with growth internally.

I don’t think we will be down and out (as in bottom 2-4) and strongly believe we will rise immensely in 2027 and be up to our teeth for the premiership.

Our list is a very very good list but we just need a few youth to rise up to the next level and 2026 will provide the young brigade to step up and get much needed games into them.

Our off season was stellar with the circumstances we faced and I’m excited for footy to start.

Ps. Keep an eye out for Ison. From reports of a long term legend who follows the club, the kid has it and could be anything from early days

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Ps. Keep an eye out for Ison. From reports of a long term legend who follows the club, the kid has it and could be anything from early days

Ison being a 190cm mid with more speed and better kicking than Cripps is a tantalizing prospect for sure - lets hope he fulfills his potential.