Jacinta Allan - Leading a zombie government

[Pakenhamsaint]

Will be a big improvement and we are already overtaxed.

So if you don't want extra taxes how are you paying for it? Because cutting things left right and centre is short term thinking.

You're not improving. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[eddiesmith]

Won't stop emotional locals showing up and getting angry though.

Which in the long term doesn't help anyone.


People want better services yet won't accept higher taxes to pay for it.
You could cancel every single infrastructure project and it still wouldn't be enough.

So the question is how are you paying for it? Who pays more? Are you willing to pay more tax Eddie?

The same people complaining about old fire trucks are the same people complain about the Emergency Services Levy.

The reality is everyone expects someone else to pay for it.

The problem with the Emergency services levy, is Jacinta talked it up as investing in CFA and yet despite its huge increase on the old fire services levy, they’re receiving less than they did last year…

Actually they could cut 1 infrastructure project and it would fund the CFA for life…

 

[eddiesmith]

lots of wasteful and/or lower priority expenditure the government should be cutting/deferring or not have wasted money on - ever bloating senior exec levels in public service, junkets, marketing, consultants, reviews intended to create perception or action, commonwealth games, srl, dodgy contracts to donors, treaty etc

I don’t think these people realise that the Comms games fiasco cost more than the entire annual CFA budget…

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

The problem with the Emergency services levy, is Jacinta talked it up as investing in CFA and yet despite its huge increase on the old fire services levy, they’re receiving less than they did last year…

Actually they could cut 1 infrastructure project and it would fund the CFA for life…

Not really.

Given you want to cut SRL. That's more cars on the road. That's more damage to the road, that's more pollution.
That's more money spent to keep the road up to bare minimum. That's more people presenting to GPs, hospitals and requiring treatment.

Sure you get a nice little short term sugar hit by binning it. Long term though? More road maintenance costs and more healthcare costs.

 

[Rob R]

So if you don't want extra taxes how are you paying for it? Because cutting things left right and centre is short term thinking.

You're not improving. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

No they are cutting waste on an ongoing basis. As an example, there are 1000 extra senior executive public servants since 2019. Just getting rid of half of them won't impact services at all - in fact will probably improve them l and will save at least 20.million per year, probably more but I would use the savings in EAs, staff officers etc to fund front line staff.

100 million a year on marketing can be cut to focus only on critical information about how to access services and safety rather than what are essentially taxpayer funded adverts for the party in government of the day.

Avoiding wasteful projects like Commonwealth games, ewl, srl will save billions.

pollies perks more millions.

Scrap some of the outsourcing that happened.

All these savings should be done before any tax is raised. if we then have to raise taxes fine, hit airbnb more, put a levy on every rental given to non citizens to fund more social housing.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

No they are cutting waste on an ongoing basis. As an example, there are 1000 extra senior executive public servants since 2019. Just getting rid of half of them won't impact services at all - in fact will probably improve them l and will save at least 20.million per year, probably more but I would use the savings in EAs, staff officers etc to fund front line staff.

When you cut people the workload doesn't disappear. It just ends up with more work for less people.
Now if you're getting lumped with extra work you're not going to accept the same wage are you? You're either going to ask for a pay increase or leave.
Both cost money.
The government is fighting the private sector for talent and wages do have to be competitive

100 million a year on marketing can be cut to focus only on critical information about how to access services and safety rather than what are essentially taxpayer funded adverts for the party in government of the day.

Advertising like that exists now. Some of it can be cut yes.

Avoiding wasteful projects like Commonwealth games, ewl, srl will save billions.

Things like that though have long term benefits. Some more than others.
The F1 for instance we pay 100 million and get something like 260-300 million in benefits.

pollies perks more millions.

I think everyone would agree there.

Scrap some of the outsourcing that happened.

That would mean hiring more public servants. Rendering your plan to cut executive public servants moot.

 

[eddiesmith]

Not really.

Given you want to cut SRL. That's more cars on the road. That's more damage to the road, that's more pollution.
That's more money spent to keep the road up to bare minimum. That's more people presenting to GPs, hospitals and requiring treatment.

Sure you get a nice little short term sugar hit by binning it. Long term though? More road maintenance costs and more healthcare costs.

lol, that’s the funniest argument yet, we won’t save $150 billion, it’ll get spent on more road maintenance and more people going to hospital if people can’t catch a train from Deakin to Monash…

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

lol, that’s the funniest argument yet, we won’t save $150 billion, it’ll get spent on more road maintenance and more people going to hospital if people can’t catch a train from Deakin to Monash…

It will though.

Better public transport means people are less likely to drive thier car. That's less vehicles on the road. Less vehicles on the road is less wear and tear and pollution.

Or don't cars wear out roads and pollute?

 

[eddiesmith]

It will though.

Better public transport means people are less likely to drive thier car. That's less vehicles on the road. Less vehicles on the road is less wear and tear and pollution.

Or don't cars wear out roads and pollute?

But you’re claiming $150 billion MORE wear and tear on the roads than their currently is if a train to nowhere isn’t built.

 

[peetoo]

It will though.

Better public transport means people are less likely to drive thier car. That's less vehicles on the road. Less vehicles on the road is less wear and tear and pollution.

Or don't cars wear out roads and pollute?

It will be less than it would have been without the SRL alternative when it's complete
There will be more cars on the road than now which will mean people might prefer the SRL

 

[leon123]

But you’re claiming $150 billion MORE wear and tear on the roads than their currently is if a train to nowhere isn’t built.

Tell me about this train to nowhere is built. This is not just a transport project, its a land activation project, you know housing people with access to transport. Dont think 1960s, think future.

That city rail loop goes ok , hey?

 

[eddiesmith]

Tell me about this train to nowhere is built. This is not just a transport project, its a land activation project, you know housing people with access to transport. Dont think 1960s, think future.

That city rail loop goes ok , hey?

Right, so people don’t want to buy apartments now, but in the future you think everyone will have the dream of living in one because underneath will be a train heading somewhere they don’t need to go.

Thats assuming it’s built better than NE link…

 

[leon123]

Right, so people don’t want to buy apartments now, but in the future you think everyone will have the dream of living in one because underneath will be a train heading somewhere they don’t need to go.

Thats assuming it’s built better than NE link…

I want two hectares to graze my donkeys in toorak... think about that concept for a moment

 

[peetoo]

Right, so people don’t want to buy apartments now, but in the future you think everyone will have the dream of living in one because underneath will be a train heading somewhere they don’t need to go.

Thats assuming it’s built better than NE link…

Business and other activity will de centralise too

Our CBD and spoke commute is unsustainable as the place gets busier

 

[The Punter]

The decision to host the Commonwealth Games in Regional Victoria was a mistake that any government should have known was a mistake at the time of making it.

It was inexcusable.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Not really.

Given you want to cut SRL. That's more cars on the road. That's more damage to the road, that's more pollution.
That's more money spent to keep the road up to bare minimum. That's more people presenting to GPs, hospitals and requiring treatment.

Sure you get a nice little short term sugar hit by binning it. Long term though? More road maintenance costs and more healthcare costs.

That is a super long bow to justify the SRL...

 

[Carn The Berries]

The decision to host the Commonwealth Games in Regional Victoria was a mistake that any government should have known was a mistake at the time of making it.

It was inexcusable.

And likely spent millions of dollars in their various attempts to keep the details of what actually went down under wraps.

 

[The Punter]

That is a super long bow to justify the SRL...

Everything he said would probably also be true if that rail funding was used for quadrification and electrification to Melton instead, like Infrastructure Victoria would prefer.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Everything he said would probably also be true if that rail funding was used for quadrification and electrification to Melton instead, like Infrastructure Victoria would prefer.

You mean, spend money where it's needed, not where it's politically beneficial?

What kind of mystical alternate reality are you living in????

 

[Saint]

Everything he said would probably also be true if that rail funding was used for quadrification and electrification to Melton instead, like Infrastructure Victoria would prefer.

Or the City Loop Reconfiguration which the IV CEO posted yesterday and would massively increase central transport capacity.

 

[The Punter]

Or the City Loop Reconfiguration which the IV CEO posted yesterday and would massively increase central transport capacity.

And it doesn't appear would be that expensive.

 

[Saint]

And it doesn't appear would be that expensive.

It would be complicated is the problem.

Nobody likes complicated.

And the ribbons wouldn't be obvious and the opposition will complain that trains no longer go to every City Loop Station.

 

[The Punter]

It would be complicated is the problem.

Nobody likes complicated.

And the ribbons wouldn't be obvious and the opposition will complain that trains no longer go to every City Loop Station.

I mean, we await what fall out, if any, will come from the Sunbury and Dandenong line trains moving from the City Loop to the Melbourne Metro. It would all be a nothing burger politically except for the key role the Frankston line played in the last two changes of government in Victoria.

I assume the complication would translate into disruption, and that would be the issue politically.

 

[Saint]

I mean, we await what fall out, if any, will come from the Sunbury and Dandenong line trains moving from the City Loop to the Melbourne Metro. It would all be a nothing burger politically except for the key role the Frankston line played in the last two changes of government in Victoria.

I assume the complication would translate into disruption, and that would be the issue politically.

Yes, probably a long period of disruptions as they would have to reconfigure all the signalling probably across the whole network and they've been avoiding that necessity for decades. Maybe if the rollout on Metro is successful enough they will be confident in expanding to the whole network.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

That is a super long bow to justify the SRL...

In terms of justification for SRL theres plenty of better ones. Thats just one of them

Everything he said would probably also be true if that rail funding was used for quadrification and electrification to Melton instead, like Infrastructure Victoria would prefer.

We can and should do that as well. You can and should build both.
Less road projects and more public transport ones. Unfortunately its a great failing of both majors they still think its 1960 and still have very car centric attitudes to infrastructure.

I mean, we await what fall out, if any, will come from the Sunbury and Dandenong line trains moving from the City Loop to the Melbourne Metro. It would all be a nothing burger politically except for the key role the Frankston line played in the last two changes of government in Victoria.

I assume the complication would translate into disruption, and that would be the issue politically.

We are 18 days away from the inevitable complaining. Despite 10 years of "metro tunnel will do this"

It will end up the same as the Frankston line once it was taken out of the loop. Put up with it and adapt.

Yes, probably a long period of disruptions as they would have to reconfigure all the signalling probably across the whole network and they've been avoiding that necessity for decades. Maybe if the rollout on Metro is successful enough they will be confident in expanding to the whole network.

It wouldn't be that complex. Theyre well versed in ripping out old signalling and putting new signalling.
All you would be doing is turning a bi directional line into a single direction.

I doubt the short term they put CBTC in

Keeping stuff running when you do it though. Thats a challenge.
Thats where you do trip up over everyone else network wide.
Just last week there was trackwork around Flinders Street.
No Frankston, Sandringham and Werribee/Williamstown trains.

To get Werribee/Williamstown close to the city they terminated a Southern Cross.
Doing that meant they had Pakenham/Cranbourne run direct.