List Mgmt. Not feeling great about this rebuild…

[Karp3_dm]

We ain’t getting him bro

 

[tiger_tough]

We ain’t getting him bro

I know...

 

[getthefooty]

Butters will be 27 next year - is he really who we want to be targeting?

 

[Stylo]

If we’re going after anyone this year I’d rather it be as a FA so we retain our draft capital as well. Port will almost certainly match Butters’ contract and force a trade. Will cost 3 firsts you’d think. too early in the rebuild to be blowing that kind of capital imo

 

[Turka]

Butters will be 27 next year - is he really who we want to be targeting?

Yes…Not a goal kicker, but massive impact in the middle…Durable, rarely misses…Get on my back leader…We need to slide our card forward, at the least…It doesn’t come off, all good…

 

[Daka]

I am no on Butters, just because we might not be in our window when he is in his prime.

Would prefer Bailey Humphrey who is 21 much younger & can switch with Lalor between midfield & forward.
perfect rotation.

 

[Achilles Heel]

What about when he casually set shots the ball from 60m!!

It’s a bit like he casually set shots from 15 m

 

[Achilles Heel]

Serpell and his ****ing time machine ****ing us over.

 

[Yze does it]

Great find tiger_tough...Here's what Kenny said about it...He might do Director of Coaching for free...!

“Don’t have to pay me”: Why Richmond job is appealing to Hinkley​

By Andrew Slevison

You return to coaching next year and you get the choice of taking the Carlton or Richmond job on a five-year deal at $1 million per year.
That was the hypothetical put to Ken Hinkley.

The former Port Adelaide coach had zero hesitation with his answer.
“You nearly don’t have to pay me to take Richmond,” said Hinkley swiftly on SEN’s Sportsday.
But don’t worry Adem Yze, Kenny is not after your job. He was merely professing his love for what your club has done.
The Tigers did narrowly lose their Round 1 clash with the Blues but that did not dampen Hinkley’s enthusiasm for Yze’s emerging outfit.
He is a fan of the rebuild after a successful three-flag era. They allowed established contracted players to leave in exchange for a suite of draft picks which they’ve used over the past few years
“If you want a model to rebuild (on), and how to do it…,” Hinkley said on SEN’s Whateley when expanding on his Tigers comments.
“They’d won three flags so when these players came up that other clubs had interest in - whether it be Daniel Rioli, Liam Baker and Shai Bolton - they just cashed in at the right time.

“But they also knew when the good draft was coming. Everyone knew that was a great draft and I was really passionate about that draft, I watched them all really closely.”
The draft Hinkley speaks of is of course the 2024 edition in which the Tigers had eight picks in total, six being inside the top 25.

Names like Sam Lalor, Josh Smillie, Taj Hotton, Jonty Faull, Luke Trainor and Harry Armstrong are the ones with the responsibility of taking the club forward and that is a compelling and exciting situation in the mind of Hinkley.
“The talent was there, you just had to be brave enough to go there. Now, if you’re not that club who hadn’t won three flags in a row, it’s a really hard sell,” he continued.
“But of course Richmond had won three flags. So they kept the amount of senior experience they needed to keep it ok and to help coach young players which is really important.
“Their rebuild is fast-tracking, I can guarantee you. They are going to be powerful pretty quickly, again, with the talent that I’ve seen. Last Thursday I thought, ‘Wow, this is pretty promising, this group already’.
“But the courage to make it happen and more importantly to have all the information about what’s on the landscape, ‘This is a great draft, we’ve got to be big and we’ve got to be into it’.
“You’ve got to know the draft and you’ve got to hit it at the right time.
“Richmond: tick, tick and (for) courage, tick.”
The Tigers have a major test this Saturday when they host their premiership coach Damien Hardwick and the slick Gold Coast Suns at the MCG.
Nobody outside of Punt Road Oval expects them to win, as long as the Tiger cubs keep building momentum so the rebuild can continue moving forward.u

8 names of high draft picks. Smilie can't get on the park, Armstrong and Faull can't hit the side of a barn. Cadman had 2 good KPF in his forward 50 Hogan and another. Drafting 2 18 yo KPF got problems. Sims is ok. But under sized for a ruck.

Trainor can't get a game year 2.
Grjl looks great. See who relaces Mansell.

Back up ruck of Gray over OHB. A 200+ guy might have been better
I can't see all of Sims, Faull and Armstrong making it
But easy enough to find another ruck.


Lynch has kicked poorly going into seasons. See if that improves

Yze saying looking forward to Prestia playing again. I'm not

Interesting times

 

[Masotiger]

Fair praise from coke can Kenny

I stumbled across this on YouTube - I never listen to SEN.

Every now and again in the media someone who has an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of clubland nails it perfectly.

Kudos Ken Hinkley.

Unlike the vast majority of complete flogs in the media whose baseless opinions are not worth urinating on.

I have never been so bullish about the medium to long term future of the RFC, both on and off the field.

 

[tiger_tough]

Fox Footy has us 4th in line for Butters after Dogs, Cats and Hawks. Sounds like we will have a crack.

 

[SleepingGiant]

Butters will be 27 next year - is he really who we want to be targeting?

Absolutely not. 3-4 years too early. We need to prove our own harvested young can fight men and prove that they are near enough, but not good enough so they need a butters. For example, 2018 showed we were probably going to be a one flag team without Lynch. He single handedly won 2019 PF against the biggest threat in Geelong. Getting prime Lynch now would push us up to perma mid table and prevent our Vlaustin and Ellis being drafted.

 

[juss]

We are executing everything better than the textbook. We have hoards of young talent with mature bodies to still weather to load. There will be rookies and lower picks that come on like a Grimes or Lambert as well.

The main issue for me is injuries, and how pretty much every top end talent is injury prone thus far. You cannot win premierships with big injury lists. I am also concerned that we are about 4 top end picks off contending with compromised drafts starting from next year.

Specifically,

• Elite ruck. Don't care how we get it, we just need it and we will not contend without it. Nank was/is elite so for a period of time so was Maric.
• Elite KPD. Trainor/Gibcus are not capable of taking the big generational forwards like King and Darcy. Miller and Balta will be either past their prime or not good enough. They are literally at their peak peak, nd are nowhere near Grimes or Rance. I think for the modern game, we will need a 198cm plus Mac Andrew or Harris Andrews type to truely contend or we will be torn apart and have our hearts broken in big finals by Darcy and King types.
• General Skills. We are still that old Richmond gun and gun scrappy type of gamestyle. I am also concerned with our young forward set-shot kicking. Faull and Armstrong need to get to 20 goals each this year or I would also add another KPP forward to the shopping list. Bad kicking is bad football and skills are needed more than ever. If you see Hawthorn play, our skills are so far behind it is not funny.

I think we can develop out of the above, but we need to cover all those bases cheap and only have a couple free agency gaps for 2028 onwards we can fill. We have two years to fill those gaps, anything more and we are in trouble.

You absolutely dont need an elite ruck to win flags, and Nank never was one either.

So many premiers in recent times have gotten away with just solid combative or good rucks, without needing them to be great/elite.

 

[spky1234]

Absolutely not. 3-4 years too early. We need to prove our own harvested young can fight men and prove that they are near enough, but not good enough so they need a butters. For example, 2018 showed we were probably going to be a one flag team without Lynch. He single handedly won 2019 PF against the biggest threat in Geelong. Getting prime Lynch now would push us up to perma mid table and prevent our Vlaustin and Ellis being drafted.

The only way for us to even fk up our rebuild. Is by trading 3 first round picks for Butters too early. We still don't know who's going to make it, or what we've got really.

We know Lalor will be a superstar. We know Seth and Hotton could be superstars. We know Grlj and Banks could be great players. We don't really know what Trainor, Faul, Armstrong, Brown, Gibcus, Cumming, Sims, Smillie etc will be yet.

 

[T4P]

Butters will be 27 next year - is he really who we want to be targeting?

AFL isn't like that anymore, just look at Geelong and Collingwood's recent success with older lists. It's a success mindset to go after Butters, assuming he is the profile player we think would slot in well to what we are building

 

[getthefooty]

AFL isn't like that anymore, just look at Geelong and Collingwood's recent success with older lists. It's a success mindset to go after Butters, assuming he is the profile player we think would slot in well to what we are building

Of course you can win flags with older lists, in fact it's almost a pre-requisite. The key is how to build that list with the least amount of risk.

We're at least 4 years off and possibly longer - rebuilds rarely happen in a straight line. Butters will probably be in his 30s by the time we're contending, and who knows what sort of a player he'll be by then. He plays a very crash and bash style and has been resilient so far, but could easily see it catch up to him later in his career. To give someone like him a massive long term contract now is just laden with risk IMO. Prefer we wait until we're a bit further down the track to recruit someone of his ilk.

I'm generally opposed to bet the farm type acquisitions when you're early in a rebuild. It really limits the flexibility you have as you progress with the build.

Gold Coast recruiting Petracca is a very good example of how to do it IMO. T Lynch another great example, we got him via free agency for nothing and we'd already won a flag.

 

[_RT_]

Fox Footy has us 4th in line for Butters after Dogs, Cats and Hawks. Sounds like we will have a crack.

Hopefully it's little more than us showing agents that we have money to spend rather than bringing in a star too early. The Hardwick dynasty was built around value picks that helped build the core before eventually turning to the high priced recruits when we knew we could genuinely compete.

Absolutely not. 3-4 years too early. We need to prove our own harvested young can fight men and prove that they are near enough, but not good enough so they need a butters. For example, 2018 showed we were probably going to be a one flag team without Lynch. He single handedly won 2019 PF against the biggest threat in Geelong. Getting prime Lynch now would push us up to perma mid table and prevent our Vlaustin and Ellis being drafted.

IMO there are better options for us to target that actually address list needs and allow us to continue to build a strong foundation.

The only way for us to even fk up our rebuild. Is by trading 3 first round picks for Butters too early. We still don't know who's going to make it, or what we've got really.

We know Lalor will be a superstar. We know Seth and Hotton could be superstars. We know Grlj and Banks could be great players. We don't really know what Trainor, Faul, Armstrong, Brown, Gibcus, Cumming, Sims, Smillie etc will be yet.

Of course you can win flags with older lists, in fact it's almost a pre-requisite. The key is how to build that list with the least amount of risk.

We're at least 4 years off and possibly longer - rebuilds rarely happen in a straight line. Butters will probably be in his 30s by the time we're contending, and who knows what sort of a player he'll be by then. He plays a very crash and bash style and has been resilient so far, but could easily see it catch up to him later in his career. To give someone like him a massive long term contract now is just laden with risk IMO. Prefer we wait until we're a bit further down the track to recruit someone of his ilk.

I'm generally opposed to bet the farm type acquisitions when you're early in a rebuild. It really limits the flexibility you have as you progress with the build.

Gold Coast recruiting Petracca is a very good example of how to do it IMO. T Lynch another great example, we got him via free agency for nothing and we'd already won a flag.

Well said x 2. Patience is the key, no point adding a player that is the finishing touches to a list build, when the list isn't established yet.

 

[Dr Tigris]

A review of our list giving point to young players. Only comparison is WC, so interesting. Seems fairly decent. I don't agree with it all. But gives a good insight into where our list stands. As they do other teams the comparisons will be worth a check.

 

[baazzaa]

A review of our list giving point to young players. Only comparison is WC, so interesting. Seems fairly decent. I don't agree with it all. But gives a good insight into where our list stands. As they do other teams the comparisons will be worth a check.

Dunno how Faull gets A-grader based off 9 goals in 17 games playing as usually a fairly deep forward. Trainor and Brown lucky to both be given +2 given neither made our best 23 rnd 1 with injuries. Peucker should have been unsure.

 

[SleepingGiant]

You absolutely dont need an elite ruck to win flags, and Nank never was one either.

So many premiers in recent times have gotten away with just solid combative or good rucks, without needing them to be great/elite.

I still think Nank was elite as a ruck. He was never top 1-2 but always number 3 in the comp while we contended behind Natanui and Gawn. Could make it 60-40 against the best then outwork them around the ground or on-ball as an extra mid. People underestimate the hurt factor as well. He would crush opposition mids.

 

[db26]

Bailey the one from lions we should be targeting for me.

 

[Mr Magic]

Dunno how Faull gets A-grader based off 9 goals in 17 games playing as usually a fairly deep forward. Trainor and Brown lucky to both be given +2 given neither made our best 23 rnd 1 with injuries. Peucker should have been unsure.

blind leading the blind a little bit I think

 

[wegetpumped]

Banks would be the one they want, but I dunno if I would be willing to let him go

Has really taken some big strides over the past 12 months and feel like he’s just about ready to establish himself

To be honest wouldn't be so hard to do that in our current list. His a poorer version of Short.

 

[Daka]

I am not as bullish as others on our rebuild, we have some ticks. but it seems like we have more non-ticks at this stage.
things can change ofc.
Balta in my opinion is the worst contract in our history. very below average key defender he has never shown at all he is an elite player.

but he is getting paid like an elite player, Ben Miller is player that should have got the big contract and I don't think he is anything special either but he makes less mistake and I think he is better 1on1.

Broad looks cooked, Vlastuin will be gone in a couple of years who is very elite player.
Gibcus does not seem to be setting world on fire, I am not super confident in our defensive & forward stocks.

If Faull & Armstrong don't make it than we are in big trouble as a club.

 

[baazzaa]

Balta in my opinion is the worst contract in our history.

Yeah this extension, which was before the assault stuff, was more obviously stupid than the Hopper/TT deal. We were going to get a top draft pick as FA compensation, we could then have used the salary cap space on FA in another year, so we basically get like a top draft pick + a top player for a guy who's completely redundant (we've had like 5 other potential KPDs on our list the last 2 years).

Kornes was right, he doesn't even have a position. We can't play him in defence because he's a liability (recognised by both Yze and Dimma) and he's not even VFL-quality as a forward.