Autopsy 2026 Rd 1 Carlton vs Richmond - 4 points but alarm bells still ringing

[tragic]

during those same five yers 2/3rds of seniour coaches in other CLubs didn tmake a preliminary final carrying a bunch of pea hearted brain deds on his shoulders.
but dont let facts get in teh way of a good narrative.

And you think that the preliminary final run had anything to do with any great coaching or game plan from Voss? It has been discussed pretty consistently that that run coincided with our strength which was clearance work and the small window of availability for certain "types" like Jack Martin/David Cunningham and Caleb Marchbank. We had to have a midseason camp because we were tracking so badly and from reports the players decided play more freely and move away from the previous rigid game style. We benefitted from an injured Sydney Side and then a similar team to us in Melbourne who also had a stubborn contested style coach as Voss. We were 5 goals up in the prelim and again Voss was not able to pull any levers or change momentum when Brisbane got a run on. He has been unable to adapt to the change in the game over the last few seasons. Happy for you to think that Voss is a great tactician and is not set in his ways when it comes to game style and certain "types" that he favours over others.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Fogarty is out of form an better options wer unavailable...you ar emaking a big deal out one player but use that to say BBVoss plays favourites Moir was worse than hopeless in teh Sydney game a prime reason the had so many resy rebounds Tala coudl run ou 4 quarters in a VFL match - the was literlay no one else to play small forward...what are you talkign about here?

Yep Carlton is playing catchup with faster stye of footnball and incorporating 7 new players at teh same time therfoer VOss is a bad coach becaue he is trying to play a faster less predictable brand - which teh players clearly cant execute on for 4 quarters

Im not absolving Voss of anything but im not kiddng myself about what the curent abvailable set of player really are...

You argument doesnt stack up you blame voss for choosing faourites over ( presumably) beter options and then you come up with one bad player Fogarty and even then no options.

This team wont hit their best form til after the bye at least..get used to it.

You say you're not absolving Voss at the same time as doing exactly that.

The same group of players are on the field in the first half as the second half.

It's on Voss.

 

[Accidental genius]

And you think that the preliminary final run had anything to do with any great coaching or game plan from Voss? It has been discussed pretty consistently that that run coincided with our strength which was clearance work and the small window of availability for certain "types" like Jack Martin/David Cunningham and Caleb Marchbank. We had to have a midseason camp because we were tracking so badly and from reports the players decided play more freely and move away from the previous rigid game style. We benefitted from an injured Sydney Side and then a similar team to us in Melbourne who also had a stubborn contested style coach as Voss. We were 5 goals up in the prelim and again Voss was not able to pull any levers or change momentum when Brisbane got a run on. He has been unable to adapt to the change in the game over the last few seasons. Happy for you to think that Voss is a great tactician and is not set in his ways when it comes to game style and certain "types" that he favours over others.

Absolutely, Voss added nothing meaningful to our run of good form few years ago.

We did fall away in the end so he probably butchered the good run with silly team changes playing favourites like he normally does.

 

[SurreyBlue]

naa teh facts are that no coach can make mutton taste liek lamb
but hey sack Fogarty and replace him with whoever and tell yourself that is the difference a..lolworthy mate seriously

His list. 5 years.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

You say you're not absolving Voss at the same time as doing exactly that.

The same group of players are on the field in the first half as the second half.

It's on Voss.

It’s on both. Mediocre list + mediocre coach.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You say you're not absolving Voss at the same time as doing exactly that.

The same group of players are on the field in the first half as the second half.

It's on Voss.

It's on Voss and players...

I'd be ready to delist all these players this year:

Gov, Williams, Fogarty, L.Young, Saad, Reidy, Duffy, Monahan, Acres.

Then there's these young players that haven't proven much and are not looking likely:

Motlop, O.Hollands, Wilson, Charleson, Chesser, F.Young, HOK

Then we have these guys which are on a performance basis whether we keep them:

Newman, Haynes, Boyd, Cottrell, Evans...

Been saying it for a while now, we should be heavily invested in this year's draft and mini rebuilding, there's no doubt in my mind.

 

[JustaBattler]

And you think that the preliminary final run had anything to do with any great coaching or game plan from Voss? It has been discussed pretty consistently that that run coincided with our strength which was clearance work and the small window of availability for certain "types" like Jack Martin/David Cunningham and Caleb Marchbank. We had to have a midseason camp because we were tracking so badly and from reports the players decided play more freely and move away from the previous rigid game style. We benefitted from an injured Sydney Side and then a similar team to us in Melbourne who also had a stubborn contested style coach as Voss. We were 5 goals up in the prelim and again Voss was not able to pull any levers or change momentum when Brisbane got a run on. He has been unable to adapt to the change in the game over the last few seasons. Happy for you to think that Voss is a great tactician and is not set in his ways when it comes to game style and certain "types" that he favours over others.

Docherty himself confessed that the leadership group thought the game was over after quarter time Russell himself said that the players were weak..mate

The list has lacked balance and leadership on field they are midling and peaked two years ago

want more evidence ? - thats when the club started going back to the draft for high end picks...

The build was a failure and the bail outs and taps on shoulders to pizz orf is all he evidence I need - by all means change the coach I dont give a toss - no flag in the next few years at least...dealt done finished.

All that remains now is the final bits of tossing out failures, condiitonals and dressed up VFL battlers on a good day.

 

[JustaBattler]

You say you're not absolving Voss at the same time as doing exactly that.

The same group of players are on the field in the first half as the second half.

It's on Voss.

yes that teh point the same group of player splaying to the same game plan - cant play 4 sustainable quarters weak as pizz

 

[GoBlues!]

Absolutely, Voss added nothing meaningful to our run of good form few years ago.

We did fall away in the end so he probably butchered the good run with silly team changes playing favourites like he normally does.

The way he treated Matt Kennedy in what was his last game was disgraceful…I lost what little respect I had for Voss as a coach after that.

 

[Accidental genius]

The way he treated Matt Kennedy in what was his last game was disgraceful…I lost what little respect I had for Voss as a coach after that.

That was absolutely disgraceful how he did that to Kennedy.

I reckon that was a clear turning point in how the rest of the playing group judged Voss - and hence the blow up of the team that has occurred since.

**** we are really struggling with this coaching caper.

 

[Sector 7G]

That was absolutely disgraceful how he did that to Kennedy.

I reckon that was a clear turning point in how the rest of the playing group judged Voss - and hence the blow up of the team that has occurred since.

**** we are really struggling with this coaching caper.

I still fail to understand why it was disgraceful. What was disgraceful was the effort from the entire team being 10 goals to zero in a final. We had reached panic stations and had to get an underdone TDK into the game earlier than anticipated to try something different and Kennedy was 1 of 10 players who could have been chosen to be benched. We were getting torched for pace and subbing a slow mid/forward who had limited impact was a reasonable. Having come up to play after becoming a father should have no baring on who was subbed out.

 

[blue gunslinger]

It's on Voss and players...

I'd be ready to delist all these players this year:

Gov, Williams, Fogarty, L.Young, Saad, Reidy, Duffy, Monahan, Acres.

Then there's these young players that haven't proven much and are not looking likely:

Motlop, O.Hollands, Wilson, Charleson, Chesser, F.Young, HOK

Then we have these guys which are on a performance basis whether we keep them:

Newman, Haynes, Boyd, Cottrell, Evans...

Been saying it for a while now, we should be heavily invested in this year's draft and mini rebuilding, there's no doubt in my mind.

Geez a bit harsh on Billy Wilson and Skull O'Keefe who are just starting their journeys. And I think you will see a highly motivated Jesse Motlop return next season. Listen to Breakfast with the Blues tomorrow to listen to his first post ACL inbterview

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Geez a bit harsh on Billy Wilson and Skull O'Keefe who are just starting their journeys. And I think you will see a highly motivated Jesse Motlop return next season. Listen to Breakfast with the Blues tomorrow to listen to his first post ACL inbterview

I would love to see these guys take the next step and prove themselves. Happy to give them a couple more seasons but if they don't show anything by then, cut our losses imo.

As for interviews... meh, I'm over those, get nothing out of them. The on field performance will do all the talking as far as I'm concerned.

 

[gab213]

That was absolutely disgraceful how he did that to Kennedy.

I reckon that was a clear turning point in how the rest of the playing group judged Voss - and hence the blow up of the team that has occurred since.

**** we are really struggling with this coaching caper.

By 'we', you mean some people on this board , right? I reckon they are the ones who are really struggling with it. Round freaking 2 and people delistring players who have been here for five minutes, focusing on coaches, generally carrying on like we are at the end times, get a grip peeps ffs, there's a long way to go this season.

 

[Accidental genius]

By 'we', you mean some people on this board , right? I reckon they are the ones who are really struggling with it. Round freaking 2 and people delistring players who have been here for five minutes, focusing on coaches, generally carrying on like we are at the end times, get a grip peeps ffs, there's a long way to go this season.

Thanks for the laugh…

I understand being too pessimistic is a problem…but there is no denying we are in a real shit show atm at blues land.

Just need to be patient I guess…about all we can do really.

 

[gab213]

Thanks for the laugh…

I understand being too pessimistic is a problem…but there is no denying we are in a real shit show atm at blues land.

Just need to be patient I guess…about all we can do really.

I find the best thing is to look for the laughs, it helps

 

[SOSages]

By 'we', you mean some people on this board , right? I reckon they are the ones who are really struggling with it. Round freaking 2 and people delistring players who have been here for five minutes, focusing on coaches, generally carrying on like we are at the end times, get a grip peeps ffs, there's a long way to go this season.

I'm with gab. Putting on my flak jacket here. I get and love the fun of this forum, so this is not a criticism just an individual observation re coaching comments.

I get that people see a result of the team and use that result as the only KPI to determine how well a Coach can or cannot coach. Bad coaching = bad result is not necessarily true. The correlation does not imply causation. There may be many contributing factors causing the result. It is an easy out to simply point to the coach. That said I don't want to spoil my fun as I read through all the emotional cand often simple conclusions. Mind you Vossy maybe well not be a great coach. Just as Harwick may not have been, before he won 3 flags. Malthouse and Pagen were great coaches too.

 

[BluStreak]

There is a difference between someone taking on a tough kick and turning it over and bombing it.

The long kick down the line is the problem. A short kick can miss the target but it's sticking to the game plan which has to be rewarded. The other is mental fragility on display - that's what I'd be dropping guys for. Or at least taking them off to give them a bake.

Moir tried that kick back into the middle in the 3rd quarter against Sydney and turned it over and got dropped. I don't doubt there was more to the dropping than that but it made it easier.

Voss is all about the easy option at selection table.

The long kick down the line is not the problem. Watch other teams and you will see them doing exactly the same.
It is the decision of the player to ignore the short kick, to not see the open player or ignoring runners going past for the hand off, before they take the long kick down the line.

I most assuredly believe that Moir was dropped because he is not involved or not executing his role. Moir is laconic, goes for the speccy without producing much. But then will show two or three exceptionally elite actions that blow your mind. Only prob, not consistent enough.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

yes that teh point the same group of player splaying to the same game plan - cant play 4 sustainable quarters weak as pizz

It's not fitness. An elite sportsman is not fatigued 3 minutes into the second half having sat down for 30 min.

It's mental. It is not fatigue that makes players ignore the short options and boot it long. That is the individual thinking I don't want to take on the tough 45 kick because if I stuff it up I'll get in trouble and nobody is going to blame me for anything going wrong if I just dump it long - even if it is to a 3 on 1.

Everyone will just pile in on Harry McKay and Kemp because they're the poor bastards who have to sit under these hospital balls all night. They make it someone elses problem.

An elite coach would fix it. This is why you pay for a coach. Otherwise we just have the CEO send the players out there and say good luck fellas.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

The long kick down the line is not the problem. Watch other teams and you will see them doing exactly the same.
It is the decision of the player to ignore the short kick, to not see the open player or ignoring runners going past for the hand off, before they take the long kick down the line.

I most assuredly believe that Moir was dropped because he is not involved or not executing his role. Moir is laconic, goes for the speccy without producing much. But then will show two or three exceptionally elite actions that blow your mind. Only prob, not consistent enough.

I agree all other clubs bomb it down the line - but not when things are going well. That's when the oppo has squeezed them and there are no other options they all do it. Which is why I am annoyed with Weitering. He ignored multiple short options on several occasions and just bombed it causing a turnover. He's supposed to be the leader in the back half but if you want to put a face to the lack of leadership it's Weitering.

When Sydney were on top of Hawthorn they were finding short options and linking runners through the middle as they did to Carlton. When hawthorn closed off those options they had to bomb it and Barrass is BOG.

The difference for Carlton is we do it voluntarily. Nobody has to squeeze our running players - we just ignore them and kick to the outnumber through pure stupidity / mental fragility / lack of a coach who can stop the rot.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

An elite coach would fix it. This is why you pay for a coach. Otherwise we just have the CEO send the players out there and say good luck fellas.

Can we try this?

 

[JustOneTime]

Fogarty is out of form an better options wer unavailable...you ar emaking a big deal out one player but use that to say BBVoss plays favourites Moir was worse than hopeless in teh Sydney game a prime reason the had so many resy rebounds Tala coudl run ou 4 quarters in a VFL match - the was literlay no one else to play small forward...what are you talkign about here?

Yep Carlton is playing catchup with faster stye of footnball and incorporating 7 new players at teh same time therfoer VOss is a bad coach becaue he is trying to play a faster less predictable brand - which teh players clearly cant execute on for 4 quarters

Im not absolving Voss of anything but im not kiddng myself about what the curent abvailable set of player really are...

You argument doesnt stack up you blame voss for choosing faourites over ( presumably) beter options and then you come up with one bad player Fogarty and even then no options.

This team wont hit their best form til after the bye at least..get used to it.

Austin and Voss have had 5 years to correct the player list to where the game was heading. They simply dont have the right level of insight. Or austin is not aligned with voss but is losing out.

Fogarty was renewed on their watch. They brought in Lord AND B Campo. They have renewed E Hollands who is INCREDIBLY slow on top of a slow side/midfield.

Voss is in his own trough of shitness. He continues to play an additional inside mid on a wing...first it was setters and now its Lord. Picking Lord an inside mid after his own heart is choosing favourites as we cant carry too many slow players.

We are in a reset year so why dabble with Hewett on top of Cripps, on top of Lord, on top of Fogarty....all slow...all on top of the slow E Hollands. Walsh and O Hollands one-paced but better than those others.

Voss is a drill sergeant and good leader of men. He isnt edgy enough to spot the changing landscape of the game.

Cripps should have been shifted ages ago. voss's first discussion with Cripps on joining Carlton would have been, seen what I did with Wines (brownlow medal), i can help you. The discussion should have been very different about speed/kicking.

 

[blue gunslinger]

The way he treated Matt Kennedy in what was his last game was disgraceful…I lost what little respect I had for Voss as a coach after that.

add Cincotta to that

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Austin and Voss have had 5 years to correct the player list to where the game was heading. They simply dont have the right level of insight. Or austin is not aligned with voss but is losing out.

Fogarty was renewed on their watch. They brought in Lord AND B Campo. They have renewed E Hollands who is INCREDIBLY slow on top of a slow side/midfield.

Voss is in his own trough of shitness. He continues to play an additional inside mid on a wing...first it was setters and now its Lord. Picking Lord an inside mid after his own heart is choosing favourites as we cant carry too many slow players.

We are in a reset year so why dabble with Hewett on top of Cripps, on top of Lord, on top of Fogarty....all slow...all on top of the slow E Hollands. Walsh and O Hollands one-paced but better than those others.

Voss is a drill sergeant and good leader of men. He isnt edgy enough to spot the changing landscape of the game.

Cripps should have been shifted ages ago. voss's first discussion with Cripps on joining Carlton would have been, seen what I did with Wines (brownlow medal), i can help you. The discussion should have been very different about speed/kicking.

You've forgotten Cerra who will come straight back in and slow our midfield down even further.

Other clubs recruit skillful quick outside wingers / flankers and transform them into prime mids. We don't do that. We have slow single position mids that are given all the minutes. Dawson, J Daicos, Richards, Warner, Holmes, Nas, Rankine, etc. the list is long just off the top of my head. All started life as quick outside players with good skills and were developed into the best mids in the league. When have we ever done that? We recruit pure mids and then stick with them.

 

[JustOneTime]

You've forgotten Cerra who will come straight back in and slow our midfield down even further.

Other clubs recruit skillful quick outside wingers / flankers and transform them into prime mids. We don't do that. We have slow single position mids that are given all the minutes. Dawson, J Daicos, Richards, Warner, Holmes, Nas, Rankine, etc. the list is long just off the top of my head. All started life as quick outside players with good skills and were developed into the best mids in the league. When have we ever done that? We recruit pure mids and then stick with them.

It's is really obvious that in 3-4 years sides kicking skills has become incredible (Adelaide today). We simply havent been a part of that. Cripps/Walsh kicking is so far sub par it isnt funny.

We have no where to go because of it. SoS also no idea as he recruited a million inside mids when at Carlton.

Game right now is FAST and ELITE KICKING

Carlton = SLOW and POOR KICKING.