Review R6: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly vs. St Kilda

[CrowBloke]

I’m not ascribing to that this week, but it’s pretty clear what that poster was saying.

Yes, it was.
I was trying to be amusing with the ambiguity .

 

[GreyCrow]

So, the Saints had two periods of 5-goal dominance (<== was there any response to those, by Nicks?) and that 9-goal run by the Crows pretty much won us the game, well, with our hard-fought two late goals in the last.
There were 4 periods lasting 8-15 minutes of arm-wrestle, one in each quarter, with each stalemate producing a momentum-swing.

There are far better analysts than me in here (eg Scorpus and Golumless, Drugs Are Bad Mackay? and Kane McGoodwin and others). Did any of you notice and/or can you explain any changes/moves that produced those stand-offs and momentum swings, please?
eg after an understandably quiet and nervous start in the first 1/4, Edwards got busy and on the back of some excellent work by McAndrew had real impact in the 2nd. I think he had 3 clearances in that 1/4 alone, is that right? Bloody good for a newbie .
Edwards' run out of Centre and kick deep to Thilthorpe (mark and goal, the first of the 9-straight) was almost McLeod-like.
Great tap to Edwards, hard to see but he's about 4m. to the LHS of the Ump:

Someone mentioned Wilkie was doing his best Tom Stewart impression - I noted to my brother our forwards were really stagnant at times. Edwards getting caught HTB was part of this . He had to stop momentarily while looking for options - instead of kicking blindly to Wilkie

Then in the 2nd Edwards again showed the way from the centre by driving it long. Defenders find it hard to defend when there is no help and its one on one against Man-Beast Thilthorpe

( its why I liked Matt Roberts in his draft year )

I will excuse the 29 point comeback as lethargy after a big week - but there were issues again where we let the Saints runners get free . I made note when they jumped us we gave them too much space. We did it again in the last quarter

And credit to St Kildas runners who switched on the afterburners when required

Maybe there is a coaching direction from the opposition coaches to '' wait they will let you back in the game - be ready and go hard ''

 

[CrowBloke]

Someone mentioned Wilkie was doing his best Tom Stewart impression - I noted to my brother our forwards were really stagnant at times.

Wilkie out-bodied and outmarked Tex in the first. 12 marks in total, 31 possessions and Tex still kicked 5!

Edwards getting caught HTB was part of this . He had to stop momentarily while looking for options - instead of kicking blindly to Wilkie.

I didn't think of that. I thought he was caught by the pace of the game. He had 3 Frees-Against and I reckon they were all htb.

I will excuse the 29 point comeback as lethargy after a big week - but there were issues again where we let the Saints runners get free . I made note when they jumped us we gave them too much space. We did it again in the last quarter.

I didn't consider the post-week factor. Good point.
That Score Worm on the Fox site tells the story of the game clearly. The flat, break-even spots, the two 5-goal runs by the Saints and our 9-goal streak <== Lyon mighta been caught napping, there.
The Crows' slow starts are still a mystery to me.

Maybe there is a coaching direction from the opposition coaches to '' wait they will let you back in the game - be ready and go hard ''

I think you're right.
It might be a drop in concentration from our less-experienced (depth) players while we have so many out injured...? Maybe that won't be a problem after their return when they've regained match fitness .
However, if it's a Nicks directive** to change style and defend the lead (which makes no sense), then he needs his head read.
Get ahead, then get further ahead <== the Steve Waugh don't-let-up ruthlessness.

** for a while late in the Minor Round last year, I was hoping that Nicks was training the boys how to control the tempo of a game (like McRae and C. Scott) ie when to go hard, when to absorb the inevitable fightback, when to defend a lead late in the game. I doubt it, now. It was wishful thinking.
The Crows have a disturbing trend, getting about 4 or 5 goals up but then stop doing what they were doing to get there.
If that's a Nicks' plan, he's an idiot.
If it's run-out-of-steam, then we need new fitness Coaches.
If it's player-complacency (the Crows can get a bit fancy/tricky/cocky sometimes) they need a rocket.
This pattern --- start slow, fight back, get ahead, then give up the lead for close losses (Geelong/Bulldogs/Freo) or an occasional win (Saints) --- has got to change.

 

[jimvic]

Good - Tex, Cook, Milera, Edwards debut at last

Bad bad bad bad bad bad oh so bad - Listening to Ken Hinkley commentate 'special comments' on Kayo during the reply.

I just about threw up over the "team" od Derrrrwayne and Ken Oath. OMG it was just horrible. Just need to work out how this synch thing works with 5AA and Kayo

 

[Gtowncrow]

The same comments were said about Cook about 12 months ago. Pedlar has had more time out of the game. I find it so strange fans cant see the upside. Go back and look at his highlights from 2023.

Pedlar is getting his chance right now. It won't last forever. Ah Chee, Rachele, Rankine, ANB, and Keays are all in front of him. There's only so much room for his type. Add Soligo and Dawson to the midfield again and a couple of the above guys play more forward time.

His stat sheet is currently very poor and his potential needs to become production. The team is carrying him at the moment and once Curtin reappears, there's going to be zero room for a potential good player. Only good and productive players.

Since I posted the negative thoughts about Pedlar, there was a limited but passionate response from a few about potential and upside in Luke. Fair enough. He might be good.

But we're capable of winning the flag this year if we raise our floor. Injuries returning will do that. Peds would be an easy relegation candidate unless he starts earning selection on performance, not potential.

 

[madstar]

I just about threw up over the "team" od Derrrrwayne and Ken Oath. OMG it was just horrible. Just need to work out how this synch thing works with 5AA and Kayo

I think Kayo is always at least a few seconds behind so not sure you can get it to work

 

[Cromulant]

Personally I dont think Ken has been bad at all. Think he overplayed the "being in the rooms is uncomfortable" thing but that aside he's pretty balanced.

 

[DJ75]

Bizarre game in that the two most impactful players in the game played against each other.

Wilkie dominated Tex, took a high number of intercept marks etc... and yet Tex kicked 5.

 

[Cromulant]

Bizarre game in that the two most impactful players in the game played against each other.

Wilkie dominated Tex, took a high number of intercept marks etc... and yet Tex kicked 5.

Coaches votes will be interesting

 

[1990crow]

On Ch9 Footy Show today, Sloane tipped MM to be next Captain.
It was also said that Max is widely respected around the Club as the bloke most players would want their sister to marry.

I don't think Max is a good enough player to be captain personally.

 

[Cromulant]

I don't think Max is a good enough player to be captain personally.

Im not sure that it matters.

 

[BRL121]

Wilkie out-bodied and outmarked Tex in the first. 12 marks in total, 31 possessions and Tex still kicked 5!

I didn't think of that. I thought he was caught by the pace of the game. He had 3 Frees-Against and I reckon they were all htb.

I didn't consider the post-week factor. Good point.
That Score Worm on the Fox site tells the story of the game clearly. The flat, break-even spots, the two 5-goal runs by the Saints and our 9-goal streak <== Lyon mighta been caught napping, there.
The Crows' slow starts are still a mystery to me.

I think you're right.
It might be a drop in concentration from our less-experienced (depth) players while we have so many out injured...? Maybe that won't be a problem after their return when they've regained match fitness .
However, if it's a Nicks directive** to change style and defend the lead (which makes no sense), then he needs his head read.
Get ahead, then get further ahead <== the Steve Waugh don't-let-up ruthlessness.

** for a while late in the Minor Round last year, I was hoping that Nicks was training the boys how to control the tempo of a game (like McRae and C. Scott) ie when to go hard, when to absorb the inevitable fightback, when to defend a lead late in the game. I doubt it, now. It was wishful thinking.
The Crows have a disturbing trend, getting about 4 or 5 goals up but then stop doing what they were doing to get there.
If that's a Nicks' plan, he's an idiot.
If it's run-out-of-steam, then we need new fitness Coaches.
If it's player-complacency (the Crows can get a bit fancy/tricky/cpcky sometimes) they need a rocket.
This pattern --- start slow, fight back, get ahead, then give up the lead for close losses (Geelong/Bulldogs/Freo) or an occasional win (Saints) --- has got to change.

I've said this before, but I think you'll find that our bombed delivery in the first quarter was mostly to the advantage of Wilkie, rather than Tex. This is at least a factor in these discussions.

 

[Mutineer]

Coaches votes will be interesting

Votes
Player (Club)

10
Taylor Walker (ADEL)

5
Jack Sinclair (STK)

4
Brayden Cook (ADEL)

4
Lachlan McAndrew (ADEL)

3
Callum Wilkie (STK)

3
Wayne Milera (ADEL)

1
Sam Berry (ADEL)

 

[Cromulant]

Votes
Player (Club)

10
Taylor Walker (ADEL)

5
Jack Sinclair (STK)

4
Brayden Cook (ADEL)

4
Lachlan McAndrew (ADEL)

3
Callum Wilkie (STK)

3
Wayne Milera (ADEL)

1
Sam Berry (ADEL)

Cant argue with much of that TBH.

Thought Wilkie might have gotten a couple more.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Votes
Player (Club)

10
Taylor Walker (ADEL)

5
Jack Sinclair (STK)

4
Brayden Cook (ADEL)

4
Lachlan McAndrew (ADEL)

3
Callum Wilkie (STK)

3
Wayne Milera (ADEL)

1
Sam Berry (ADEL)

And some posters early in the match were saying, " Tex retire now. Great judges, some are.

 

[cmndstab]

Two possible breakdowns (plus being able to swap Cook/McAndrew and Milera/Wilkie)

5 Walker
4 Cook
3 Sinclair
2 Milera
1 Berry

5 Walker
4 McAndrew
3 Wilkie
2 Sinclair
1 Milera



Or


5 Walker
4 Sinclair
3 Wilkie
2 McAndrew
1 Berry

5 Walker
4 Cook
3 Milera
2 McAndrew
1 Sinclair

 

[ABAB]

Two possible breakdowns (plus being able to swap Cook/McAndrew and Milera/Wilkie)

5 Walker
4 Cook
3 Sinclair
2 Milera
1 Berry

5 Walker
4 McAndrew
3 Wilkie
2 Sinclair
1 Milera



Or


5 Walker
4 Sinclair
3 Wilkie
2 McAndrew
1 Berry

5 Walker
4 Cook
3 Milera
2 McAndrew
1 Sinclair

A coach didn't give any votes to Cook WTF. "Troll" Lyon or "clueless" Nicks.

 

[cmndstab]

A coach didn't give any votes to Cook WTF. "Troll" Lyon or "clueless" Nicks.

It's possible that it was the second scenario, and Cook/McAndrew are swapped around.

In which case, a coach didn't give any votes to McAndrew which also seems crazy.

 

[Crom1995]

Not sure how it looked on TV, but being at the game it was quite concerning how easily St Kilda were able to transition the footy from their back half, particularly from kick-ins. It looked like a genuine lack of organisation at times, especially once the Saints got speed on the ball. Cal Wilkie played the perfect Tom Stewart game early on, can't believe he went undrafted for so long.

I am still very optimistic about the season and think we’ll slowly build into it. You never want to be premiership favourites after Round 3 (look at the Dogs now). The Lions tend to look off the pace early in the season but do enough to stay afloat, then go to another level once we get to the pointy end of the season.

I think team balance is going to be very interesting once we have a full squad. Fogarty is undoubtedly the better player, but I am starting to think Finnbar is a better fit. He allows Thilthorpe to stay forward more as Finnbar can second ruck, and the contest he brings when flying for marks is unreal. I don’t think you can play Fog and Finnbar in the same team.

Huge few weeks for Cumming, Pedlar, Nankervis and Bond (and Van Berlo) to try and get some form going before the cattle start to return.

 

[Cromulant]

It's possible that it was the second scenario, and Cook/McAndrew are swapped around.

In which case, a coach didn't give any votes to McAndrew which also seems crazy.

Its a tough one.

Depends who thinks rucks are important. I reckon Nicks gave Lachie votes.

 

[Golumless]

I don't think Max is a good enough player to be captain personally.

I agree with this. There is something to be said about your captain shouldering one of the largest responsibility loads in your team. Even if it is just to remove that as a point of criticism.

Max is a fine footballer, and at worse has a very solid career as a defender at the rate he is going, but he's not tracking in that direction at this point.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I see enough signs to think we're still a good team that has a few players out of form rather than an average team that is regressing to the mean.

Need to click into gear over the next 4 weeks though

 

[1990crow]

I agree with this. There is something to be said about your captain shouldering one of the largest responsibility loads in your team. Even if it is just to remove that as a point of criticism.

Max is a fine footballer, and at worse has a very solid career as a defender at the rate he is going, but he's not tracking in that direction at this point.

Racheles my pick.

 

[ABAB]

It's possible that it was the second scenario, and Cook/McAndrew are swapped around.

In which case, a coach didn't give any votes to McAndrew which also seems crazy.

2 votes each to McAndrew seems fair, Wilkie had a very good 1st quarter but Walker kicked 5 goals in the next 3 quarters and won us the game. He received max votes from both coach so I'm not sure how the same coach saw Wilkie was a 3 vote game??? This vote should have gone to Cook.

 

[CrowBloke]

I don't think Max is a good enough player to be captain personally.

Tbh, I never think about it (our next Captain).
Somebody mentioned it in a post and I just happened to have seen Sloaney talk about it on Ch9 (they interviewed MM on the Footy Show and gave him a shit-ton of prizes --- good lurk!).