NO TROLLS Elijah Hollands (GC-Carlton): Recent Developments & Mental Health Wellbeing

[Dogs_R_Us]

I'm making an assumption here a lot of it stems from performance anxiety, he nearly had his career ended over it last year and he knows one more mistake it's all over.

The only logical reason for leaving him out there is that he is battling this week to week and the best medical advice has been to let him continue playing and when gets a few touches it will help ease his anxiety. If they remove him from the situation it's only going to make his issues worse.

Then the question becomes what involvment did the club doctor have on match day to be able to assess things had gone too far.

You must be kidding. Have games of AFL football now become occupational therapy centres for various young men whose contribution to their team is of secondary importance to their personal wellbeing?

I will now look at under-performing players through the lens of , well, at least being out there is benefiting his mental health even if he's missing targets and dropping marks. The coach must not upset him by taking him off or dropping him. Tell the trainers to keep away and have a hot scented towel ready for when he's rotated off.

 

[Skinny10]

I'm giving Carlton the benefit of the doubt here, for now.

I, like everyone else on here, have no idea what actually happened so until that comes out I'm not joining the lynch mob.

As others have suggested in here what if EH suffers from performance anxiety? If he has been dealing with this for several years and playing through it, like in the reported Sydney game last year where he finished the game with 25 touches, the best course of action as determined by his Doctors could well have been to try and play through it and work his way into the game. In that situation benching him after 1 quarter or telling him he isn't up to playing at all is probably going to destroy what little confidence the bloke has left. The amount of pressure on Carlton in general and on him specifically, knowing that this is his last chance to make it as a footy player, is immense and this scenario isn't far fetched at all.

Now consider that EH was admitted to hospital a few days after this game, considering the discourse on here it's also not a stretch to suggest that if he has performance anxiety then having hundreds or thousands of nuffies saying "he was so bad he must be on drugs" or "he was definitely drunk, look at how badly he was kicking before the game and how weird his arm movements are" wouldn't have helped would it? For some people with performance anxiety and similar issues having the entire country discussing how bad you performed it nightmare material.

Do I know that's what happened? No, again I have no idea what actually took place but I do know that the Doctors at the game, even if they aren't the best in the world, are still probably a million times better at being a Doctor than the nuffies on here baying for blood and screaming negligence at every chance.

No you aren't an expert, no you don't know what happened and your rabid speculation masquerading as fact is most likely a contributing factor in this poor kids current mental state. Be better.

Eagles' Brandon Brooks brings recognition of battle with anxiety

The Philadelphia guard missed two games in 2017 because of his condition. He talks openly about dealing with his daily situations.

www.espn.com

I hope Hollands reads this article from NFL centre Brandon Brooks

Brooks used to be hospitalised due to intense pregame vomiting and twice had to leave games due to anxiety attacks
Ended up winning the Super Bowl

 

[CarmenSandiego]

You must be kidding. Have games of AFL football now become occupational therapy centres for various young men whose contribution to their team is of secondary importance to their personal wellbeing?

I will now look at under-performing players through the lens of , well, at least being out there is benefiting his mental health even if he's missing targets and dropping marks. The coach must not upset him by taking him off or dropping him. Tell the trainers to keep away and have a hot scented towel ready for when he's rotated off.

I think it's a bit more complex than saying 'we better leave him out there or we might hurt his feelings'.

my guess would be there's a program in place for him, and part of that program is to encourage him pushing through certain issues & facing his anxiety and fears head on, rather than yank him out of there as soon as things get tough.

voss & co might've been willing to sacrifice the offensive performance of 1 player (he might've been doing his job defensively, we don't know his running patterns) to improve the long-term chances of him having a career with us?

 

[Cyclops]

I think it's a bit more complex than saying 'we better leave him out there or we might hurt his feelings'.

my guess would be there's a program in place for him, and part of that program is to encourage him pushing through certain issues & facing his anxiety and fears head on, rather than yank him out of there as soon as things get tough.

voss & co might've been willing to sacrifice the offensive performance of 1 player (he might've been doing his job defensively, we don't know his running patterns) to improve the long-term chances of him having a career with us?

Yes, we don't know, but this is plausible.

I said it before if Carlton did something wrong, of course the league should throw the book, but there's nothing to hang them on in what has been said. Through hard work and support they got him back on the park, this is a sad incident to a career that looked like it got back on the rails.

 

[Skinny10]

I think it's a bit more complex than saying 'we better leave him out there or we might hurt his feelings'.

my guess would be there's a program in place for him, and part of that program is to encourage him pushing through certain issues & facing his anxiety and fears head on, rather than yank him out of there as soon as things get tough.

voss & co might've been willing to sacrifice the offensive performance of 1 player (he might've been doing his job defensively, we don't know his running patterns) to improve the long-term chances of him having a career with us?

A key part of treatment for anxiety disorders for sure
However, Elijah's always come across as a confident young man to me. Very well spoken. Wouldn't have picked him as the anxiety type

 

[CarmenSandiego]

A key part of treatment for anxiety disorders for sure
However, Elijah's always come across as a confident young man to me. Very well spoken. Wouldn't have picked him as the anxiety type

????

he had panic attacks on the reg last year and developed a problem with alcohol.

 

[Skinny10]

????

he had panic attacks on the reg last year and developed a problem with alcohol.

I'm aware
I just wouldn't have picked him as the type

Often I think of super shy, introverted players as the ones who struggle with anxiety
Elijah's interviews he seems loud and confident

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Voss is saying the Blues are being bullied.

Just to confirm, captain of the team that answered an AFL players poll of who was the most courageous player in the AFL, as Ryan Lonie

Ryan Lonie

Age

43

Ht

189cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

8.1

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.4

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

, just to embarass a guy who was barely out of his teens, now upset about bullying.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Voss is saying the Blues are being bullied.

Just to confirm, captain of the team that answered an AFL players poll of who was the most courageous player in the AFL, as Ryan Lonie, just to embarass a guy who was barely out of his teens, now upset about bullying.

Talk about holding onto something for a long time.

 

[The Blue Max]

Talk about holding onto something for a long time.

Talk about holding on to mouseshit for a long time.

FIXED.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Talk about holding onto something for a long time.

It was a disgrace and amazed the Lions players weren't disciplined for it.

When you lose x2 GFs in a row you hold onto it all, whether you want to or not!!

 

[rfctiger90]

Ignorance seems to be your strong point.
Do you happen to know anyone who has dealt with anxiety attacks or any type of mental health episode?
It sure doesn’t seem like it.


A Collingwood player suggesting he could smell alcohol on a players breath to his teammates and them being captured in shock on the telecast via lip reading is about as evidential of alcohol definitely being involved as Mrs Krabappel having a baby because Ralph Wiggum “saw the baby and the baby looked at me”.

It’s anecdotal at best, it’s not evidence of alcohol being involved and it flies in the face of all rational thought and information we now have about what Carlton knew and did on the night regarding his behaviour(heart monitored, doctor assessments etc).

It’s the same strength as the evidence you’re relying on. Nobody has the facts. All I’m saying is we need to be open minded about it given the unknowns. I certainly could be incorrect, just as certainly as you could be incorrect.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Voss is saying the Blues are being bullied.

Just to confirm, captain of the team that answered an AFL players poll of who was the most courageous player in the AFL, as Ryan Lonie, just to embarass a guy who was barely out of his teens, now upset about bullying.

very obscure and niche lol.

 

[Skinny10]

"For most of his pro career, Brooks has started his Sunday mornings by vomiting. But on the day of the Vikings game, that familiar feeling didn't come immediately. He has a pretty firm grasp on things now, but a deviation from the norm before the biggest game of his life was a touch unsettling for Brooks, who missed two games last season and four games in his career as the result of the debilitating effects of an anxiety condition that went long undiagnosed. On those days, he would wake up around 4 or 5 in the morning violently ill and remain in that state for a full 24 hours. Then, as suddenly as it came on, the illness would stop, and he'd be back to his old self."



These are things Elijah can work through with treatment! Use his anxious nature for good not evil! Good luck young fella

 

[rfctiger90]

you're not fooling anyone.

Lol mate I’ve dealt with more than enough of my own mental health issues in the past and something I still deal with. If he was substance affected I completely understand why and have a lot of empathy for the guy regardless. It’s a shit situation to be in.

Trying to understand what happened isn’t me attacking him. It’s trying to understand how negligent Carlton were and what other clubs (like my own) will be doing to ensure these situations are handled properly in future. I think we can all agree that judging from the footage in the warmups, his lack of effectiveness early in the game and his erratic behaviour, that he never should’ve been sent onto the field regardless of whether they’ve been able to manage other, (clearly) less severe issues with him in the past.

As I said to the guy above, all I’m doing is saying what it looked like to me based on the information available, and given that information I can’t understand how people can already completely dismiss it. I certainly am not 100% certain that he was substance affected, and I don’t think anyone can be 100% certain based on the information available to us. It feels like there are some serious leaps being made just to protect the guy which I don’t feel is necessary given clearly the vast majority of people in this thread support him and have empathy for him and are simply trying to understand how the Blues allowed it.

There is not enough clear evidence or facts available to make a definitive finding either way and feel there needs to be more nuance in these conversations.

 

[OneohtrixPointNever]

Didn’t realise in that game vs Sydney he also looked like he wasn’t behaving erratically and had 1 touch.

Oh.. actually he didn’t look abnormal in that game and had 20 touches. Interesting parallel being drawn to make Carlton look like they’ve handled it well .

He was terrible in that game.

Think it might have his last before he took some time off but I recall a lot of kicks that went directly into the ground, which is characteristic of Elijah's game when he is off.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Lol mate I’ve dealt with more than enough of my own mental health issues in the past and something I still deal with. If he was substance affected I completely understand why and have a lot of empathy for the guy regardless. It’s a shit situation to be in.

Trying to understand what happened isn’t me attacking him. It’s trying to understand how negligent Carlton were and what other clubs (like my own) will be doing to ensure these situations are handled properly in future. I think we can all agree that judging from the footage in the warmups, his lack of effectiveness early in the game and his erratic behaviour, that he never should’ve been sent onto the field regardless of whether they’ve been able to manage other, (clearly) less severe issues with him in the past.

As I said to the guy above, all I’m doing is saying what it looked like to me based on the information available, and given that information I can’t understand how people can already completely dismiss it. I certainly am not 100% certain that he was substance affected, and I don’t think anyone can be 100% certain based on the information available to us and it feels like there are some serious leaps being made just to protect the guy which I don’t feel is necessary given clearly the vast majority of people in this thread support him and have empathy for him and are simply trying to understand how the Blues allowed it.

There is not enough clear evidence or facts available to make a definitive finding either way and feel there needs to be more nuance in these conversations.

eh, i call bullshit.

the informaiton available to you is ignored - you literally just dismissed his anxiety/panic attack vs. sydney last year as being similar to his game vs. collingwood because of his disposal count.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It’s the same strength as the evidence you’re relying on. Nobody has the facts. All I’m saying is we need to be open minded about it given the unknowns. I certainly could be incorrect, just as certainly as you could be incorrect.

Backpedal all you want.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I think it's a bit more complex than saying 'we better leave him out there or we might hurt his feelings'.

my guess would be there's a program in place for him, and part of that program is to encourage him pushing through certain issues & facing his anxiety and fears head on, rather than yank him out of there as soon as things get tough.

voss & co might've been willing to sacrifice the offensive performance of 1 player (he might've been doing his job defensively, we don't know his running patterns) to improve the long-term chances of him having a career with us?

If that's the philosophy of the CFC it's no wonder the Blues are not doing as well as they ought to be. If he's that vulnerable, the senior team playing in a vital game is not the time or place to work through his difficulties.

 

[sinkintins]

1. Can people stop referring to negligence and duty of care? To breach these, there must be actual harm, such as an injury. What harm has Elijah suffered? Public scrutiny does not constitute harm.

Psychological harm is covered in the OHS act just fyi, so it doesn't need to be an injury per se. The club has admitted that it was well aware of issues in the lead up to and during the match, but kept him playing, and didn't sideline him and utilise their emergencies.

The result of playing him has been a very public revelation of his struggles to a national audience, intense pressure, airing of his private struggles, and he's been hospitalised to top it off.

I think it's reasonable to come to the opinion that, even if it's not a gross legal breach, that a breach of duty of care and negligence has taken place.

2. Do you think that, at the end of his recovery, Elijah will come out and say Carlton has completely failed him and that he plans to sue the club? Do you really think he believes Carlton has not provided adequate care?

Elijah doesn't need to sue the club to establish that negligence and duty of care took place. WorkSafe is investigating, they'll make a determination on whether it runs afoul of the law.

 

[danster168]

About a generation ago I worked at Crown Casino briefly. There was one incident there where the security guards saw a bloke wobbling around, slurring his words, making weird hand movements and gestures and generally acting like he was drunk or on drugs so they kicked him out. The guy made a complaint to one of the ombudsmen (I can't remember which one) and it turned out that he was sober and a teetotaler but had an acquired brain injury from a car accident several years earlier that made him seem intoxicated to most people. Crown management were very apologetic to him once they found out of course and arranged for the guy to come back in and get some vouchers for some of the restaurants etc within Crown as an apology and a certificate he could take with him that explained to Crown security what the situation was so he wouldn't be bothered by them again.

Want to guess what happened? He never made it to the meeting because the security guards at Crown threw him out again when he showed up for it.

Bottom line, just because you or some other random is certain that someone is on "something", doesn't necessarily mean that they actually were.

Completely different scenario.The biggest predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour and Elijah Hollands has a checkered history. Most professionals in this space will say that it's drug-induced. I just think the double standards are disgusting. Clayton Oliver literally went through the same stuff and everyone laid into him. Now all of a sudden, it's 'let's get around Elijah'. Ppl are just so dumb and fickle. Ppl are only reacting this way because the AFL media lead the charge and people followed them like sheep. Rightly or wrongly, that's exactly what happened. Crazy to me how people are so easily brainwashed and not individual thinkers.

 

[420]

Beggars belief people are actually buying the 'mental health episode' narrative being spun, unless the mental health episode they're referring to was the reason he took the field under the influence.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

If that's the philosophy of the CFC it's no wonder the Blues are not doing as well as they ought to be. If he's that vulnerable, the senior team playing in a vital game is not the time or place to work through his difficulties.

kade simpson didn't touch the ball for his 1st 6 games with us I think. we kept playing him & he went on to play 300 games.

sometimes short-term sacrifice for long-term gain works out - for both club & individual. in this case it certainly hasn't though.

 

[Maddo11]

Beggars belief people are actually buying the 'mental health episode' narrative being spun, unless the mental health episode they're referring to was the reason he took the field under the influence.

It's pretty clear that nobody in their right mind would jeopardise their career by turning up sauced.

 

[rfctiger90]

He was terrible in that game.

Think it might have his last before he took some time off but I recall a lot of kicks that went directly into the ground, which is characteristic of Elijah's game when he is off.

Fair point but certainly nowhere near the extent he was last week - surely we can agree on that point?

eh, i call bullshit.

the informaiton available to you is ignored - you literally just dismissed his anxiety/panic attack vs. sydney last year as being similar to his game vs. collingwood because of his disposal count.

I also said he wasn’t acting erratically in that game as well so bit disingenuous on my quote there. But same as the poster above - surely you can agree that whilst maybe there was a lower level of weirdness in that game from him, it was certainly much more obvious in the game Thursday right?