Hot Topic Michael Voss resigns from Carlton. Best of luck Vossy.

[GenYBlue]

Season is completely shot so I think we might as well simply not renew him at the end of the year.

The optics for that will be good... gave him 5 years and honoured his contract in full.
That will look very good to potential candidates.

 

[RPCB]

3 year too late. At least.

Malthouse era didn't destroy Carlton, The job had been done well prior. Let's call it the John Elliott era which we haven't found a way out of yet.

We haven’t won a flag and rorted the salary cap since John Elliot was our president.

So you can’t really say we haven’t found our way out of the John Elliot era.

 

[IMTOPS]

Season is completely shot so I think we might as well simply not renew him at the end of the year.

The optics for that will be good... gave him 5 years and honoured his contract in full.
That will look very good to potential candidates.

Couldn’t agree less.

Any prospective coach without experience in the main job will jump at an opportunity regardless of the circumstances involving a former coach.

As for any senior coach, they will look at other aspects including list, the board, finances, fitness etc.

Simply not renewing Voss at seasons end is weak, and demonstrates an inability to be proactive and decisive. This whole let’s break the coach sacking mould has inflicted a lot of people, and now that rotten rotten fruit is being reaped, it’s time for common sense to prevail.

What coach is not going to accept the job because Voss was sacked mid season and not simply just “not renewed”? That’s corporate speak, Voss Style.

If Voss was prepared to put the team and its future first, disregarding his, then I’d have no issues. But Voss is stubborn and won’t change.

How many times has he picked Cottrell without having earned his stripes at vfl after an injury lay off? Has he experimented with the midfield, making unpredictable changes? Does he reward good form at reserves level or punish senior players that are just cashing their cheques?

He’s left 2 clubs in a shambles - he’s been given ample time and doesn’t deserve to see this year out. Unfortunately, the leadership at this club is incompetent - starting with the Sydneysider President.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Couldn’t agree less.

Any prospective coach without experience in the main job will jump at an opportunity regardless of the circumstances involving a former coach.

As for any senior coach, they will look at other aspects including list, the board, finances, fitness etc.

Simply not renewing Voss at seasons end is weak, and demonstrates an inability to be proactive and decisive. This whole let’s break the coach sacking mould has inflicted a lot of people, and now that rotten rotten fruit is being reaped, it’s time for common sense to prevail.

What coach is not going to accept the job because Voss was sacked mid season and not simply just “not renewed”? That’s corporate speak, Voss Style.

If Voss was prepared to put the team and its future first, disregarding his, then I’d have no issues. But Voss is stubborn and won’t change.

How many times has he picked Cottrell without having earned his stripes at vfl after an injury lay off? Has he experimented with the midfield, making unpredictable changes? Does he reward good form at reserves level or punish senior players that are just cashing their cheques?

He’s left 2 clubs in a shambles - he’s been given ample time and doesn’t deserve to see this year out. Unfortunately, the leadership at this club is incompetent - starting with the Sydneysider President.

I find it funny people saying our reputation will make it hard to find our next coach.

Every decent assistant worth interviewing will apply for the job. There are well over 100 assistant coaches across the league and only 1-2 senior coach vacancies a year. Its a pretty hard job to get. Can't afford to be picky.

The reality is most clubs who part ways with coaches arent in a great spot. We are a big 4 club with good facilities and over 100k members. We have some AA senior players in Walsh, Weitering, Cripps, McKay and top young talent in Jagga, Dean, Walker.

Would be a great job to get.

The only ones who might be more picky are the ex-senior coaches such as Simpson, Buckley, Longmire.

Being overly concerned with optics it how we made the mistake of keeping Voss in the first place.

And nobody is going to say Voss wasnt sacked, just not extended. Thats the case whether he goes now, round 12 or the end of the year. Whenever he goes he'll have been sacked.

 

[16bit]

So, apparently not a single senior coach has been hired and started prior to the end of a season since at least the 90s.

The exception being King at Melbourne but he started during finals really.

Odd stat when this is quite common in other sports and leagues.

Pull the plug, get Longmire. Either he wants the job or doesn't. We should know which by now. Stop the bleeding, prevent a potential exodus at the end of the season, end the season with some positivity for the players and the fans. Experiment, work out which assistants stay or go. Hit 2027 roaring to go.

 

[Red Bull]

So, apparently not a single senior coach has been hired and started prior to the end of a season since at least the 90s.

The exception being King at Melbourne but he started during finals really.

Odd stat when this is quite common in other sports and leagues.

Pull the plug, get Longmire. Either he wants the job or doesn't. We should know which by now. Stop the bleeding, prevent a potential exodus at the end of the season, end the season with some positivity for the players and the fans. Experiment, work out which assistants stay or go. Hit 2027 roaring to go.

We don’t change trends … we just follow them.
Been playing catchup forever …

 

[marcmurphy3]

So, apparently not a single senior coach has been hired and started prior to the end of a season since at least the 90s.

The exception being King at Melbourne but he started during finals really.

Odd stat when this is quite common in other sports and leagues.

Pull the plug, get Longmire. Either he wants the job or doesn't. We should know which by now. Stop the bleeding, prevent a potential exodus at the end of the season, end the season with some positivity for the players and the fans. Experiment, work out which assistants stay or go. Hit 2027 roaring to go.

I think a large part of it stems from the fact, that in other sports like EPL, there is more urgency to turn around results. There is no reward via the draft from finishing lower, there is a relegation risk and above all else supporters just want their team to win. It's cultural.

AFL fan bases are much more patient with low finishes. They will accept poor results for a long time if they deem their team is in rebuilding or development mode. There's no penalty for finishing lower. In fact you get rewarded via the draft.

Plus, the AFL is a pretty complicated sport with 18 moving pieces. It'd be pretty tough and unfair in the modern game to expect a coach to come from outside and impact mid season.

And if a coach like Longmire comes in mid year and we get spanked. That freshness and hope that you normally benefit from with a new coach, amongst both players and supporters, is instantly gone. Despite the fact the coach has had limited opportunitty to change anything. Longmire would start 2027 on the back foot and already under pressure.

In short, it wont happen.

 

[sparkybagger]

So, apparently not a single senior coach has been hired and started prior to the end of a season since at least the 90s.

Interesting stat.

I'd hazard a guess that one of the reasons for new head coaches is not wanting to accept the risk of turning around a struggling team and having it their win/loss record early in their top job career.

An experienced coach like a Longmire already has the reputational capital to endure early struggles, but not sure he'd want to inherit the coaching group that comes with a mid-season entry into the ranks. This is where soft cap implications would be another reason for it not occurring in more recent times.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Voss won't be Carlton coach beyond this yr

Going out on a limb…

Development and assistant coaches need to go also or we’ll get the same result.

Skills, development and training plans aren’t done by Voss. They are done by development and assistant coaches.

That’s why I struggle with the negativity towards Voss for our skills, IQ and lack of development. It’s not Voss, neither is game day coaching anymore. Voss is on the bench, you’d think that’s gotta be done via the box.

Bottom of the barrel football department, equals bottom of the barrel results.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Going out on a limb…

Development and assistant coaches need to go also or we’ll get the same result.

Skills, development and training plans aren’t done by Voss. They are done by development and assistant coaches.

That’s why I struggle with the negativity towards Voss for our skills, IQ and lack of development. It’s not Voss, neither is game day coaching anymore. Voss is on the bench, you’d think that’s gotta be done via the box.

Bottom of the barrel football department, equals bottom of the barrel results.

We already replaced half of them just last preseason.

 

[reubsblues]

Going out on a limb…

Development and assistant coaches need to go also or we’ll get the same result.

Skills, development and training plans aren’t done by Voss. They are done by development and assistant coaches.

That’s why I struggle with the negativity towards Voss for our skills, IQ and lack of development. It’s not Voss, neither is game day coaching anymore. Voss is on the bench, you’d think that’s gotta be done via the box.

Bottom of the barrel football department, equals bottom of the barrel results.

Simple the good coaches oversee everything
Like Mitchell his football IQ is simply amazing and you can see it in the way the hawks play
There absolutely no way hawthorn have the pure talent of alot of other teams

 

[bradfisher14]

Going out on a limb…

Development and assistant coaches need to go also or we’ll get the same result.

Skills, development and training plans aren’t done by Voss. They are done by development and assistant coaches.

That’s why I struggle with the negativity towards Voss for our skills, IQ and lack of development. It’s not Voss, neither is game day coaching anymore. Voss is on the bench, you’d think that’s gotta be done via the box.

Bottom of the barrel football department, equals bottom of the barrel results.

Just out of curiosity, if you don't think Voss does skills, development, training plans, or game day coaching ...

... what do you think he actually does?

 

[TENACIOUS]

Just out of curiosity, if you don't think Voss does skills, development, training plans, or game day coaching ...

... what do you think he actually does?

Managers assistants, meetings, mentors players, media, MC, coaches group during breaks.

We have assistants to run training, fitness staff and development coaches to develop players.

Voss address players during breaks, motivates and guides standards from the bench. Voss doesn’t make positional changes or in game tactics, assistants are doing that from the box.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

Voss won't be Carlton coach beyond this yr

 

[TENACIOUS]

Simple the good coaches oversee everything
Like Mitchell his football IQ is simply amazing and you can see it in the way the hawks play
There absolutely no way hawthorn have the pure talent of alot of other teams

Hawthorns football department is light years ahead of ours.

They have better:
Coach
Assistants
Development Coachers
List Management team
List
Board
Stability
Future

 

[marcmurphy3]

Managers assistants, meetings, mentors players, media, MC, coaches group during breaks.

We have assistants to run training, fitness staff and development coaches to develop players.

Voss address players during breaks, motivates and guides standards from the bench. Voss doesn’t make positional changes or in game tactics, assistants are doing that from the box.

How do you know thats the case? Youre making some big assumptions. And even if youre right. If our assistants are calling the wrong shots from the box, its on Voss for letting them. In either case he bears a fair bit of responsibility.

 

[reubsblues]

Hawthorns football department is light years ahead of ours.

They have better:
Coach
Assistants
Development Coachers
List Management team
List
Board
Stability
Future

Yeah and Mitchell oversees all of it as he ****ing should Voss is incompetent

 

[TENACIOUS]

We already replaced half of them just last preseason.

Yeah with plodders.

If we replace Voss, I hope the new coach has full autonomy on who he wants as assistants.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Yeah and Mitchell oversees all of it as he ****ing should Voss is incompetent

So would Voss

 

[reubsblues]

So would Voss

Like I said incompetent

 

[Its an amigo!]

Managers assistants, meetings, mentors players, media, MC, coaches group during breaks.

We have assistants to run training, fitness staff and development coaches to develop players.

Voss address players during breaks, motivates and guides standards from the bench. Voss doesn’t make positional changes or in game tactics, assistants are doing that from the box.

This is the job an assistant coach. We essentially have no head coach if this is the structure we go into games with.

 

[Its an amigo!]

Going out on a limb…

Development and assistant coaches need to go also or we’ll get the same result.

Skills, development and training plans aren’t done by Voss. They are done by development and assistant coaches.

That’s why I struggle with the negativity towards Voss for our skills, IQ and lack of development. It’s not Voss, neither is game day coaching anymore. Voss is on the bench, you’d think that’s gotta be done via the box.

Bottom of the barrel football department, equals bottom of the barrel results.

This is a huge problem in of itself. The head coach should be driving this (I understand that he doesn't need to be running each drill, but the direction and overall skills development has to be his) . No wonder we are in the position we are in after 5 years of this.

 

[TENACIOUS]

How do you know thats the case? Youre making some big assumptions. And even if youre right. If our assistants are calling the wrong shots from the box, it’s on Voss for letting them. In either case he bears a fair bit of responsibility.

Making big assumptions, nice hyperbole.

Think about it.

How do you see Voss/Fagan/McRae being able to make in game positional changes and tactics from the bench? They’d trust in their assistants in the box to do this.

At the end of the day, yes it is Voss’s responsibility, to oversee the whole on-field picture.

 

[gab213]

So, apparently not a single senior coach has been hired and started prior to the end of a season since at least the 90s.

The exception being King at Melbourne but he started during finals really.

Odd stat when this is quite common in other sports and leagues.

Pull the plug, get Longmire. Either he wants the job or doesn't. We should know which by now. Stop the bleeding, prevent a potential exodus at the end of the season, end the season with some positivity for the players and the fans. Experiment, work out which assistants stay or go. Hit 2027 roaring to go.

There will be no exodus outside of the players the club decides to let go of. There is no discernible bleeding at the moment either.

No more messiahs either, theyve been shown not to work out time and time again, which club can you point to that has done it successfully of recent times? By successful I mean an appointment which leads to a premiership. Malthouse is the only example after moving from West Coast to Collingwood and even then it took 11 years. He's the only one over the past 20 years.

I'm sure that the club will already be looking at the untried coaches in assistant roles at other clubs. They wont be waiting to approach people's managements if theyve already decided to move forward without Voss next year.

Hopefully the club does whats in the best interests of the club moving forward and ignores the outside noise.

 

[Will_Hayward]

Yeah and Mitchell oversees all of it as he ****ing should Voss is incompetent

Mitchell oversees the football department? What does McCartney do then?