Autopsy Round 8 | St Kilda vs Carlscum

[Ricmel]

Moving Steele on was the right thing to do.

Don't know the ins and outs of what were the contractual situations or impact on salary cap but would rather have Jack on the list than Macrae.

Still can't feel good about pushing Jack out.

 

[gringo2011]

Absolutely. You can't do much more than win but let's be real, if we are not thumping Carlton and West Coast then we don't deserve to be in the conversation. The next 5 weeks is going to show us where we really are and if we should be taken seriously. 1/4 and we are probably where we were last year - the better end of positions 10 -14. At 2/3 possible top 10. Anything better and we can start to get GENUINELY excited.

The AFL ladder predictor has us winning against Richmond and Port in the next couple of months then getting enough wins on the way home to make 10th. If we can win a couple on the way through this period we could set up a decent chance at a legit top 8 spot.

 

[Sully111]

Don't know the ins and outs of what were the contractual situations or impact on salary cap but would rather have Jack on the list than Macrae.

Still can't feel good about pushing Jack out.

Fair enough.

I reckon he'd rather be playing AFL for the dees than VFL for us though. I think it worked out ok for Jack... and I honestly believe that's what the club wanted.

 

[sauce_head]

Hahaha

Could not get through that.

 

[sauce_head]

Havent been on here much this season, i think last time was when we were 0-3 and I said I was keeping the faith, I think we're starting to see what we were expecting after such an exciting pre-season, but there is still a lot of opportunities for it to click even more going forward.

Some thoughts so far, partly on last night, partly on the whole season.

• Wilkie and Sinclair are incredible players, all time greats for our club now and are doing a seemingly great job as captains.
• JSOS is a more capable true KPD than I thought he was, he is a good addition, but I am liking Howard in the team at the moment.
• I expected Hill and Wood to be forced out this year but Hill is in the best form of his time wirh us IMO. Wood has been down, but had some really big moments and is still worthy of a spot.
• Windhager and Owens are becoming really consistent, reliable players. The leaders of the emerging generation.
• Philipou is showing signs, he is a 60/40 forward/mid. Hes starting to use his size really well and it feels like we havent scratched the surface yet.
• We all take Nas for granted already, its crazy. Hes in AA form and we are still probably a little disappointed because this is the first year he hasnt significantly improved. The forward experiment wasnt a success, but its a card we can play at any time.
• The ruck duo is still a work in process. I dont think dominating Carlton is proof of anything, but hopefully it gives them confidence to build on.
• Sharman and Owens are doing a commendable job. If we had a gun 200cm KPF they would look so much better.
• I was wrong about Ryan, I didnt want him but he brings class and toughness, a great match with Higgins.
• Flanders has been pretty disappointing, I think he needs to spend less time in the midfield.
• Garcia has been a revelation, went from probably 21st-23rd picked to one of our most promising.
• I think Macrae will be in and out of the team depending on Boxshalls form and the fitness of others. It is a real luxury to have him available when needed, but as others have said, we've moved past him.

The most important things to consider:

• Flanders, Owens, Philippou, Sharman, Nas, Windhager have all played less than 100 games.
• Wilson, Hall, Garcia have played under 50
• Higgins and Ryan have played less than 10 games together
• Wilkie, Silvagni and Howard/Caminiti/Tauru have all played less than 10 games together
• Marshall and TDK have played less than 10 games together.

This team has so much upside its not even funny.

Need to sign Wilson pronto. We missed him in the first half, noticeably.

 

[BigMonty]

This is gold and I thought following Saints footy is hard work. A glorified panel of bed wetters and it’s called “Blues Radio” - subscribe me!

Loved the line "What's Vossy doing now....Looking on Seek" the reply.
It's good to get the one side heart on the sleeve passionate call, we all feel it they are talented enough to vocalise it.

Back to Saints, as always a relief to win when our head says its a win but so many lived experiences tell us otherwise with our Club over the years.

Sad about Max and we wait again. Geat to see TDK and Marshall finally get it together and the combination of handball kicks and hard running especially in the third was soon good to watch. Butler did not do much so easy out for Higgins.

Give Flying Ryan another week and bring in Wilson for Macrae.

Be great to win up in Darwin against the Nepos.

 

[sauce_head]

In what way do you think it’s had a negative affect on morale?

Maybe because he chose to go? Let’s never forget that. He was told what the challenge would be in front of him and he decided he had a better deal elsewhere. No issues with that.

 

[Ricmel]

The AFL ladder predictor has us winning against Richmond and Port in the next couple of months then getting enough wins on the way home to make 10th. If we can win a couple on the way through this period we could set up a decent chance at a legit top 8 spot.

Yeah, I think it more about who we beat than where we end up. As someone else said, unless we take a big scalp or two likely we are just making up numbers. Can't see us beating Freo over there or Swans in Sydney but Suns could be gettable and depending on form maybe we could run the Hawks.

Feel like we need to do more in the next 5 weeks than just beat Richmond.

 

[sauce_head]

Come on. The fact that Allir was dropped like a hot potato and Steele was shopped showed we ran out of sponnies. We're on a hot streak so it's not a great time to bring this up but Steele's clearly in Melbourne's top 5 b&f. Hall's surely played as much time in the midfield year than last season? Just my opinion, we should've hung on to him. God bless Geary but Steele's in another tier. Anyway, I hope I'm wrong.

We saw all we needed to see of Allir in the final round of 2025. Just not as good as hoped. And then the asking price was too high.

Contrast that with Steele who we let walk for next to nothing.

And we are still way under the cap by all reports.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

The AFL ladder predictor has us winning against Richmond and Port in the next couple of months then getting enough wins on the way home to make 10th. If we can win a couple on the way through this period we could set up a decent chance at a legit top 8 spot.

If we had King back and decent run with injuries a top 6 should have been our target. If we do fall into the finals you would want to win one or two finals or we would have wasted another year.

Every year we spend waiting for our younger group too take off, is another year closer to losing the likes of Wilkie, Sinclair, Wood, Hill, Howard, Marshall & Macrae. At some point things have to gel otherwise it will be another pointless rebuiding period and we will be starting again.

 

[The Punter]

17 disposals, 9 marks, 2 goals, 3 behinds, 3 more goal assists.

Cooper Sharman, more than just going.

 

[Joffaboy]

Doesn't matter how many times you people say it, Steele was not pushed out or puntrd or whatever emotive language you want to use. He left of his own accord.
Saints have a strategy to improve the midfield by giving the younger mids more gametime at CBA's. This was outlined to Steele and Lyon truthfully told him he was not a guarantee in every game, not something an AA player who was currently captain wanted to hear, I am sure, but football is a brutal business.

Saints were happy for him to stay however for his career he wanted to be in the midfield of an AFL team. With Petracca and Oliver gone it was a great opportunity.
And what would be the narrative if he stayed? He would be getting used like Macrae and people would be bemoaning we aren't treating the ex captain right. He would be moping about even more than the last two years and would do nothing for team or club unity.
Best for him to refresh and go for Melbourne as he is doing and good luck to him.
Anyone who doesn't see the improvement in our young mids due to more game time is not being fair dinkum.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Doesn't matter how many times you people say it, Steele was not pushed out or puntrd or whatever emotive language you want to use. He left of his own accord.
Saints have a strategy to improve the midfield by giving the younger mids more gametime at CBA's. This was outlined to Steele and Lyon truthfully told him he was not a guarantee in every game, not something an AA player who was currently captain wanted to hear, I am sure, but football is a brutal business.

Saints were happy for him to stay however for his career he wanted to be in the midfield of an AFL team. With Petracca and Oliver gone it was a great opportunity.
And what would be the narrative if he stayed? He would be getting used like Macrae and people would be bemoaning we aren't treating the ex captain right. He would be moping about even more than the last two years and would do nothing for team or club unity.
Best for him to refresh and go for Melbourne as he is doing and good luck to him.
Anyone who doesn't see the improvement in our young mids due to more game time is not being fair dinkum.

Just to add to that, I think Jack Macrae also deserves to be treated with a little respect.

Yes he may not have a long history of playing for the Saints.

And he hasn’t captained the Saints like Steeley did.

However he has been a fine player in his own right, and one who we lured across with a significant contract to help us improve.

He has dug in and applied himself 100% as demonstrated by his fine early form last year and the serious injury which ultimately crippled his season.

Perhaps with age and injuries, and young talent coming through, Macrae’s future is not so bright. Maybe there’s a fair bit of VFL involved.

However he deserves his own respect and to not just be viewed as some alternative flicking option in order to retain our much admired and loved captain.

At least that’s my view.

 

[phantom13]

I wonder if we just turn him into a proper mid-small lockdown defender. And not worry to much about racking it up of elite distribution

Only position we dont really have a natural fit for too. There for someone to lockdown.

Absolutely. You can't do much more than win but let's be real, if we are not thumping Carlton and West Coast then we don't deserve to be in the conversation. The next 5 weeks is going to show us where we really are and if we should be taken seriously. 1/4 and we are probably where we were last year - the better end of positions 10 -14. At 2/3 possible top 10. Anything better and we can start to get GENUINELY excited.

I had this convo with a dear friend on the weekend.

I think it depends a big what you wanna do this year/next.

We dont need to beat any of those teams (who are all likely top 4/6) to make "finals" this year. We can lose them all, win the games we should and make the 10. I have no doubt that is the minimum benchmark for a building team (also aligns with where most of the pundits had us anyway). If we want to be the building team then thats okay, i wouldnt lose sleep over it.

If we want to be considered a proper contender then yeh we have to win a few of those bigger scalps.

Im much more focused on us beating the teams we should (North, Melbourne, West Coast, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond etc) than on knocking off top tier teams.

 

[The Punter]

Just on the 2025-2026 comparison

Both 4-4 after 8

2025

Wins: v Geel by 7, v Rich by 82, @ PA by 17, v Frem by 61
Losses: @ Adel by 63, v GWS by 28, @ WB by 71, v Bris by 45

%: 94.6

2026

Wins: @ GWS by 4, @ PA by 14, v WCE by 101, @ Carl by 39
Losses: v Coll v 12, @ Melb by 13, v Bris by 33, @ Adel by 1

%: 114.9

The wins are kind of a wash, but we've been in every game, and we weren't really in any of those losses last season.

We're just more competitive this season. And we're scoring (although that started to tick up last season and hardly anyone noticed).

 

[Broski]

Very clinical second half after being quite sloppy and lethargic to start the game. Important to consider that we had to deal with some important late outs. Plenty to like and improve on.

I was watching the highlights while I was sitting on the toilet taking a massive Carlton, and I was reaffirmed by how much of a team performance it was. There were some great individual performances across each line. The game plan is starting to click and our forward half efficiency is giving us reward for effort (the opposite against the Pies in OR).

A solid past month has got us back to 4-4 heading into arguably the toughest section of our fixture. If we can sneak a win or two against the odds, it will set us up in the back-end of the year. We will know more about this group over the next month.

 

[The Punter]

My final point is since Ross#1, I've seen us lose that game often. We kept it close enough, made a few tweaks and then dominated.

 

[FQFjt]

Just on the 2025-2026 comparison

Both 4-4 after 8

2025

Wins: v Geel by 7, v Rich by 82, @ PA by 17, v Frem by 61
Losses: @ Adel by 63, v GWS by 28, @ WB by 71, v Bris by 45

%: 94.6

2026

Wins: @ GWS by 4, @ PA by 14, v WCE by 101, @ Carl by 39
Losses: v Coll v 12, @ Melb by 13, v Bris by 33, @ Adel by 1

%: 114.9

The wins are kind of a wash, but we've been in every game, and we weren't really in any of those losses last season.

We're just more competitive this season. And we're scoring (although that started to tick up last season and hardly anyone noticed).

Hard to believe we beat Freo by 61 points last year.

Those 2025 early season wins are much more impressive than our wins this year. The big difference is the losses.

 

[Mav3rick]

Just to add to that, I think Jack Macrae also deserves to be treated with a little respect.

Yes he may not have a long history of playing for the Saints.

And he hasn’t captained the Saints like Steeley did.

However he has been a fine player in his own right, and one who we lured across with a significant contract to help us improve.

He has dug in and applied himself 100% as demonstrated by his fine early form last year and the serious injury which ultimately crippled his season.

Perhaps with age and injuries, and young talent coming through, Macrae’s future is not so bright. Maybe there’s a fair bit of VFL involved.

However he deserves his own respect and to not just be viewed as some alternative flicking option in order to retain our much admired and loved captain.

At least that’s my view.

And to add to that, who knows the influence he's having on the young mids and working on their craft. Macrae probably has the best stoppage craft and ability to find the ball of anyone in his era, and was a key cog in one of the the best midfields of the last 10 years. Seems like he has great character too, ultimately we had to spend the money at the time on someone and could have done much worse than Macrae.

 

[saint_]

Just on the 2025-2026 comparison

Both 4-4 after 8

2025

Wins: v Geel by 7, v Rich by 82, @ PA by 17, v Frem by 61
Losses: @ Adel by 63, v GWS by 28, @ WB by 71, v Bris by 45

%: 94.6

2026

Wins: @ GWS by 4, @ PA by 14, v WCE by 101, @ Carl by 39
Losses: v Coll v 12, @ Melb by 13, v Bris by 33, @ Adel by 1

%: 114.9

The wins are kind of a wash, but we've been in every game, and we weren't really in any of those losses last season.

We're just more competitive this season. And we're scoring (although that started to tick up last season and hardly anyone noticed).

For sure, even that Brisbane game we were in front in the last quarter until we stopped playing for 10 minutes.

 

[akaifu]

Things we got wrong at the start of the year:

• Four tall backs. Tried to force Tauru into the team and it didn’t work. He’s not ready yet.
• Nas at FF spending too much time not getting near it.
• Too many tall backs, Boxshall on the wing shanking kicks, Nas in the forward line it’s no wonder we couldn’t transition the ball and score.
• Been improved the last few weeks but Flanders isn’t what we thought we were getting. Playing a better role on the outskirts lately.

What we’re getting right now:

• A defensive stopper with Wilkie and Silvagni. That’s the right balance but I’m not sure where that leaves Tauru in the short-medium term. Maybe we do need to look at him forward as cover for King.
• Nas all over the ground. Sinclair can’t transition it from the back half every single time.
• Smaller team with better kickers and runners.

Garcia needs to stay as a midfielder without tagging. It’s so nice to finally have a midfielder with all the modern speed and power traits.

Add in having a proper full forward in Caminiti to free up Sharman, Owens, Marshall

Tauru can develop in defence. We are working on his ball use so it's not like playing him in the 2s is restricting his development. There is no rush with him

 

[SainterinSydney]

Add in having a proper full forward in Caminiti to free up Sharman, Owens, Marshall

Tauru can develop in defence. We are working on his ball use so it's not like playing him in the 2s is restricting his development. There is no rush with him

Hammer forward must continue until Max is back. It is all about structure.

 

[SaintersFan]

For some context. In 2008, we were 4W 4L from our first 8 matches and 5W 7L from 12 games, but we won the next 8 out of 10 matches to make the the top 4 and play finals.

The first was a Qualifying Final loss to Geelong, then we won a Semi Final beating Collingwood and then lost to the Hawks in the Prelim Final.

We all know what happened in 2009 and 2010.

Click the link and check out our 2008 season results.

2008 St Kilda Football Club season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GO Sainters!

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Said it before but this incarnation of our list/club is a build, not a sugar hit. Very different to the past. Can actually see growth, especially in our ability to find different gears to our game during these last two matches. A lot to like.

Look at our list from 2023 to today and the turn over has been massive.

 

[Bill Crouse]

10 Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

30

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

(STK)
7 Cooper Sharman (STK)
5 Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (STK)
4 Bradley Hill (STK)
2 Max Hall (STK)
2 Mitch Owens (STK)