Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion II

[JimmyRabbit49]

mate, it was light hearted banter

Was it?

"Or maybe Cody doesn’t suffer fools gladly, probably sums up your cousin’s husband." Isn't light hearted banter to me.

Piling on with inane comments when you clearly didn't read the post correctly isn't banter either - its just a waste of time.

 

[ctwenty1]

Was it?

"Or maybe Cody doesn’t suffer fools gladly, probably sums up your cousin’s husband." Isn't light hearted banter to me.

Piling on with inane comments when you clearly didn't read the post correctly isn't banter either - its just a waste of time.

ok, sorry to have wasted your time

 

[Stamos]

Yes it wasnt given enough time for the changes to settle down and see how it goes. There is still a major imbalance with the academy access the northern clubs have. In the not too distant future I can see someone like Arli or Koutas boys going to another club as we cant match.

I don't think the Northern Academy access is too much of an issue. It has been enormously successful for its purpose in Queensland, and there will come a time when it no longer makes sense, but we're not there yet.

Sure the Suns got a stack of highly rated players last year, but they used 3 drafts worth of picks, plus a heap of players traded out to afford that.

And Brisbane getting Annable would have looked very different if it weren't for the extremely dodgy AFL assistance pick (#23) which bastardised the Free Agency process to the advantage of the back to back premiers.

 

[Bletch]

Never thought I'd say this, but I actually agree with the AFL logic here.

I think the article assumes all of: Rich finish last, we finish bottom 5, Rich bid on Dougie and then Walker (before our pick). Yes, our natural pick is pushed back by the Cochrane bid but we end up with Pick 2, which is as good or better than we started (assuming pick 2-5). We were not disadvantaged at all. So we shouldn't get compo.

Where I think we would get a compo pick is:

1) Rich bid on Dougie and then pick say HVH. We had natural pick 2, now pick 3. We pick someone other than walker. We should get compo coz we got the 3rd best player in the draft, not the 2nd. We were diluted by Cochrane.

2) Rich bid on Dougie and then pick say HVH. We had natural pick 2, now pick 3. We could technically select Walker at 3 and earn compo... We got our guy but we're diluted by Cochrane and ended with a 'worse' selection than we started.

I think we've all known since the rules were released that the highlighted section won't get compo (sucks - I'm with Jim on this, either compensate all the lower ranked teams or none).

But Ralph's article went further than this, it said that there was no scenario where Carlton would get a compo pick if Cochrane went at pick 1. I think he's full of it. Has either not considered the scenario in the second half of your post, or is just ignoring it for clicks. The claim that the AFL has confirmed the points in his article is disturbing to say the least, but we really don't know just what they have 'confirmed'.

 

[Red_man2008]

Someone tell me why a pick sliding back for a team not picking a father son/academy prospect is different from a pick being worth less points to match a player they are picking up via FS/NGA.

Surely both cases deserve a second round compo pick.

 

[Bletch]

I don't think the Northern Academy access is too much of an issue. It has been enormously successful for its purpose in Queensland, and there will come a time when it no longer makes sense, but we're not there yet.

Sure the Suns got a stack of highly rated players last year, but they used 3 drafts worth of picks, plus a heap of players traded out to afford that.

And Brisbane getting Annable would have looked very different if it weren't for the extremely dodgy AFL assistance pick (#23) which bastardised the Free Agency process to the advantage of the back to back premiers.

At the very least, GCS and GWS should get some sort of academy or other assistance beyond what other clubs get to make up for the lack of father/son access.

Agree, on the whole, Northern Academies aren't really the issue. They promote the game, and widen the pool of draft candidates.

The 2026 draft changes make absolutely no sense, and completely ignore the real elephant in the room - free agency compensation, which allows top teams to pillage lower teams at no cost (in draft points).

 

[RPCB]

I imagine Port have been told the same thing by the AFL

I have to say it is ludicrous to establish a system to support struggling clubs, but, as Jimmae says, if by chance a struggling club also has access to a top rated F/S or NGA, that assistance is removed. It totally incentivices the other struggling clubs to bid with the knowledge the assistance will be removed - OMFG these AFL clowns are ****ing dumb

Yeah…. but Port Adelaide are boring, so Jon Ralph won’t type “Carlton and Port Adelaide” for his article.

 

[Stamos]

Someone tell me why a pick sliding back for a team not picking a father son/academy prospect is different from a pick being worth less points to match a player they are picking up via FS/NGA.

Surely both cases deserve a second round compo pick.

There is no logic or sense to the decision.
No consistency of approach.

The one thing that does actually hurt clubs in terms of picks sliding back is the Free Agency compo picks, but the AFL is ignoring them.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Never thought I'd say this, but I actually agree with the AFL logic here.

I think the article assumes all of: Rich finish last, we finish bottom 5, Rich bid on Dougie and then Walker (before our pick). Yes, our natural pick is pushed back by the Cochrane bid but we end up with Pick 2, which is as good or better than we started (assuming pick 2-5). We were not disadvantaged at all. So we shouldn't get compo.

Where I think we would get a compo pick is:

1) Rich bid on Dougie and then pick say HVH. We had natural pick 2, now pick 3. We pick someone other than walker. We should get compo coz we got the 3rd best player in the draft, not the 2nd. We were diluted by Cochrane.

2) Rich bid on Dougie and then pick say HVH. We had natural pick 2, now pick 3. We could technically select Walker at 3 and earn compo... We got our guy but we're diluted by Cochrane and ended with a 'worse' selection than we started.

The issue I have with it is that is dramatically increases the cost of matching the bid - if the Blues don't match a bid on Walker they would have a top 5 pick on someone else, the Swans first round pick, the compo pick at the start of the second round and Norths second round pick.

If we do match the bid for Walker we have to trade out Sydney's first rounder, use our first and North's second and lose the compo pick.

So we essentially pay a top 5 pick and 2 early second rounders to get one player

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

The issue I have with it is that is dramatically increases the cost of matching the bid - if the Blues don't match a bid on Walker they would have a top 5 pick on someone else, the Swans first round pick, the compo pick at the start of the second round and Norths second round pick.

If we do match the bid for Walker we have to trade out Sydney's first rounder, use our first and North's second and lose the compo pick.

So we essentially pay a top 5 pick and 2 early second rounders to get one player

The other issue is that if we don't trade out Sydney's first rounder, the Tiggs will 100% place a bid on Cody before Dougie. We'd have to burn two 1st round picks to match the bid, which then benefits their draft hand by getting rid of two picks before their 2nd rounder.

Port would only have to use their 1st and 2nd to match the bid, so wouldn't affect Tiggs' draft hand at all.

I can see us dealing with someone like Hawthorn to trade out Swans' 1st - especially if they're going after Merrett again. May be something like pick 17/18 for two of their highest 2nd rounders, or to someone like Geelong for a 2027 1st. Not ideal, but there'll be no shortage of clubs making offers for the pick.

 

[ctwenty1]

The other issue is that if we don't trade out Sydney's first rounder, the Tiggs will 100% place a bid on Cody before Dougie. We'd have to burn two 1st round picks to match the bid, which then benefits their draft hand by getting rid of two picks before their 2nd rounder.

Port would only have to use their 1st and 2nd to match the bid, so wouldn't affect Tiggs' draft hand at all.

I can see us dealing with someone like Hawthorn to trade out Swans' 1st - especially if they're going after Merrett again. May be something like pick 17/18 for two of their highest 2nd rounders, or to someone like Geelong for a 2027 1st. Not ideal, but there'll be no shortage of clubs making offers for the pick.

We could be in competition with Port as they may be doing the same thing, assuming they receive at least one other first rounder this year as part of butters trade

 

[StanleyBeren]

Not sure it is "second hand info" - it is someone who has direct contact with both boys giving their opinion on them.

The definition of 2nd hand info would be hearing it from someone else not witnessing it yourself. So i'll stick with that.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

The definition of 2nd hand info would be hearing it from someone else not witnessing it yourself. So i'll stick with that.

So someone directly gives me their opinion and impressions is second hand info?

Do you dismiss all posters "inside info" as second hand?

 

[StanleyBeren]

So someone directly gives me their opinion and impressions is second hand info?

Do you dismiss all posters "inside info" as second hand?

Unless witnessed at the coal face then yes.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Unless witnessed at the coal face then yes.

Not sure what you are on this site for then.

 

[ferrisb]

The disadvantage is we finished bottom 5 and 4 other teams get a reward for sitting pretty with their pick. It's supposed to be an assistance for struggling clubs and we get excluded by the random chance of a good prospect that we're supposedly paying a fair price for.

If a club retains a natural top 5 pick into the draft and does not trade it out, they should be rewarded just the same. One of the worst parts of this mechanism is that it has even less regard for the distribution of talent in a given draft than the DVI.

The worst part is the compensation is absurd for the 2026 draft, but then goes back to being reasonable for 2027 and 2028. I'd imagine it gets disappeared thereafter.

The bottom five clubs all get compensated for being shifted down.

If you are in the bottom five but don't get shifted down (or possibly even get shifted up), then you don't need to be compensated.

 

[ferrisb]

The issue I have with it is that is dramatically increases the cost of matching the bid - if the Blues don't match a bid on Walker they would have a top 5 pick on someone else, the Swans first round pick, the compo pick at the start of the second round and Norths second round pick.

If we do match the bid for Walker we have to trade out Sydney's first rounder, use our first and North's second and lose the compo pick.

So we essentially pay a top 5 pick and 2 early second rounders to get one player

You should pay a top 5 pick and an early 2nd rounder to access a top 2-3 pick.

Yes we'd also be losing the compo pick, but that's not a 'real' cost. IF you want to factor in the cost of it.... And you think a top 5 pick and 2 early 2nds is too much, then don't match...

 

[coryne]

Yeah, complete fool - multiple premiership player with Echuca (and league team the the year player), winner of the Murray Football league B&F with Moama, best clubman award winner with Echuca and partner in a large accounting firm.

Yeah, I am not sure your 'source' would want so much of his personal details put onto the internet.....

 

[Billy Cart 07]

You should pay a top 5 pick and an early 2nd rounder to access a top 2-3 pick.

Yes we'd also be losing the compo pick, but that's not a 'real' cost. IF you want to factor in the cost of it.... And you think a top 5 pick and 2 early 2nds is too much, then don't match...

This is where I'm at with it as well now. I guess there could be future cases where a team takes more steps backwards then steps forward and still manages to stay in the top 5, however it's starting to hurt my brain trying to think about this on a Friday afternoon.

I guess the biggest curveball after all this, is to not match Cody if you want to be treated the same as Richmond, West Coast and Essendon this year..... I'd rather take Cody, he looks good to me

 

[Coops93]

Not sure what you are on this site for then.

Believe it or not, some people are on this site for footy and Carlton discussions, not just for supposed insider gossip only.

We all appreciate the information and it's great for discussion, but it's always taken as 2nd hand rumours and not factual. You may be completely right in what you say, but to those on the other end on the forum it's just an anonymous post about something unverifiable.

Some fuel for convo but not much more than that.

 

[Juddernaut08]

The disadvantage is we finished bottom 5 and 4 other teams get a reward for sitting pretty with their pick. It's supposed to be an assistance for struggling clubs and we get excluded by the random chance of a good prospect that we're supposedly paying a fair price for.

If a club retains a natural top 5 pick into the draft and does not trade it out, they should be rewarded just the same. One of the worst parts of this mechanism is that it has even less regard for the distribution of talent in a given draft than the DVI.

The worst part is the compensation is absurd for the 2026 draft, but then goes back to being reasonable for 2027 and 2028. I'd imagine it gets disappeared thereafter.

That's wrong. Their rationale (which I disagree with) is not that struggling clubs should get help. It's if your top 5 pick gets pushed back, you should get recompensed.

 

[Red_man2008]

The issue I have with it is that is dramatically increases the cost of matching the bid - if the Blues don't match a bid on Walker they would have a top 5 pick on someone else, the Swans first round pick, the compo pick at the start of the second round and Norths second round pick.

If we do match the bid for Walker we have to trade out Sydney's first rounder, use our first and North's second and lose the compo pick.

So we essentially pay a top 5 pick and 2 early second rounders to get one player

Still cheaper than jagga and Dean and arguably a way better proposition than both.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

If we walk away with Cody, HVH(or similar) and a B grade KPF Free Agent this year I'll be pretty happy.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

 

[macky99]

Still cheaper than jagga and Dean and arguably a way better proposition than both.

Probably agree on that in terms of X factor which we really lack that type of player.