Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion II

[teagueyubeauty]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but Lukas Koutoufides kicked 5 goals against Geelong Grammar in his first game for the Carey 1s. In Year 10.

Let’s tell him to calm the **** down please

 

[Jimmae]

Seriously, we have not had a seriously good/successful father son since Lance Whitnall was drafted in 1996, 30 years ago, all of a sudden we have a bunch coming through and the rules change to screw us.

Look I know things didn't end well with them for various reasons, but can we have a little respect for Jarrad Waite and Jack Silvagni please.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Look I know things didn't end well with them for various reasons, but can we have a little respect for Jarrad Waite and Jack Silvagni please.

I dont think you would call either of those seriously good to the level of top tier fathersons that have come through. Nothing to do with how they left.

 

[Jimmae]

I dont think you would call either of those seriously good to the level of top tier fathersons that have come through. Nothing to do with how they left.

Would you call them inferior to Lance Whitnall?

 

[SLCv2]

Would you call them inferior to Lance Whitnall?

Jack nowhere near the level Lance got to

 

[Jimmae]

Jack nowhere near the level Lance got to

I think the bigger issue with Jack is the lack of confidence in him holding down a key post until very late in his tenure with us.

Might have faired better as a CHF in a different Carlton setup. But neither are career plodders, and clearly excellent value for where they were picked.

 

[SLCv2]

I think the bigger issue with Jack is the lack of confidence in him holding down a key post until very late in his tenure with us.

Might have faired better as a CHF in a different Carlton setup. But neither are career plodders, and clearly excellent value for where they were picked.

More than happy to agree with the last point made but Lance kicked 70 goals from largely CHF in his 4th season, in a year we made the prelim (and I still say we’d have beaten that * team before injuries got us)

All due respect to Jack, he’s never had that in his locker

 

[Jimmae]

More than happy to agree with the last point made but Lance kicked 70 goals from largely CHF in his 4th season, in a year we made the prelim (and I still say we’d have beaten that * team before injuries got us)

All due respect to Jack, he’s never had that in his locker

You're talking about a year where the entire midfield was going at a goal a game, with Kouta piling on 36. Star defence and well respected ruck division.

He was playing alongside Hamill, Lappin, and Fevola... there was an avalanche of footy coming into the 50... we averaged almost 60 inside 50s per game.

 

[gbatman]

Look I know things didn't end well with them for various reasons, but can we have a little respect for Jarrad Waite and Jack Silvagni please.

Good players. Lance was a level up. Problem for him his career at this level wasn't overly long but gee he was good at his best.

 

[SLCv2]

You're talking about a year where the entire midfield was going at a goal a game, with Kouta piling on 36. Star defence and well respected ruck division.

He was playing alongside Hamill, Lappin, and Fevola... there was an avalanche of footy coming into the 50... we averaged almost 60 inside 50s per game.

So it doesn’t count? What about 55 the year before when we were "a B grade outfit"? How about 46 the year before that when we didn’t even make finals?

Until last season, Jack had played predominantly forward. His highest return in a season is 19. I genuinely don’t see how this is a debate tbh

The one thing Jack will always have over Lance is effort

 

[agro]

So it doesn’t count? What about 55 the year before when we were "a B grade outfit"? How about 46 the year before that when we didn’t even make finals?

Until last season, Jack had played predominantly forward. His highest return in a season is 19. I genuinely don’t see how this is a debate tbh

The one thing Jack will always have over Lance is effort

Lance had Jack covered in all categories including visits to the South Melbourne Market.

 

[Lace_Out]

I still remember having a kick with a mate of mine and Lamce was walking across the toward us to chat to my mate who he played with and knew. Lance carrying a KFC bag of course.

 

[katmanblue]

Look I know things didn't end well with them for various reasons, but can we have a little respect for Jarrad Waite and Jack Silvagni please.

A little? Sure. But that's all.

 

[katmanblue]

I think the bigger issue with Jack is the lack of confidence in him holding down a key post until very late in his tenure with us.

Might have faired better as a CHF in a different Carlton setup. But neither are career plodders, and clearly excellent value for where they were picked.

The issue was him refusing to play back early in his career.

 

[Bletch]

Carlton Father/Sons in the draft era (post '86).

 

[tommy43]

So it doesn’t count? What about 55 the year before when we were "a B grade outfit"? How about 46 the year before that when we didn’t even make finals?

Until last season, Jack had played predominantly forward. His highest return in a season is 19. I genuinely don’t see how this is a debate tbh

The one thing Jack will always have over Lance is effort

Agree totally. This shouldn't even be a discussion. No disrespect to Jack. He played 100+ games, was solid for the most part. However, doesn't come close to Lance. 200 games, club captain, best and fairest, pretty sure All Australian.
Jack doesn't come close to that.

 

[tommy43]

Getting back to Cody, curious to know why some are so adamant Richmond will bid at pick 1 for him?
I get he is an NGA prospect for them but they won't bid out of spite. They'll do whats best for them and fair enough.
Every draft ranking I've seen has Dougie at 1. Most have Cody at 3. That could change as still a bit of footy to be played but all points to a bid on Dougie and then pick HVH. Leaving Cody potentially at 3.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Would you call them inferior to Lance Whitnall?

Yes clearly inferior. Lance Whitnall was an AA centre half forward. Career ended early but he was a much better player. No comparison.

 

[BluStreak]

Getting back to Cody, curious to know why some are so adamant Richmond will bid at pick 1 for him?
I get he is an NGA prospect for them but they won't bid out of spite. They'll do whats best for them and fair enough.
Every draft ranking I've seen has Dougie at 1. Most have Cody at 3. That could change as still a bit of footy to be played but all points to a bid on Dougie and then pick HVH. Leaving Cody potentially at 3.

because Carlton have guaranteed they will match for Cody. It is a certainty. It is only logical for them to bid then as it will give them an end of R1 pick plus they can then pick either Cochrane or HVM. However, another poster mentioned that we could offer them Sydneys R1 and our pick instead to facilitate a move for us up to first pick.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Carlton Father/Sons in the draft era (post '86).
View attachment 2609994
View attachment 2609993

If I had to rank them

Lance>Waite>JSOS>Buckley.

Dean has the prospects to be the best of the lot, and Cody the best again.

 

[DZ4]

Getting back to Cody, curious to know why some are so adamant Richmond will bid at pick 1 for him?
I get he is an NGA prospect for them but they won't bid out of spite. They'll do whats best for them and fair enough.
Every draft ranking I've seen has Dougie at 1. Most have Cody at 3. That could change as still a bit of footy to be played but all points to a bid on Dougie and then pick HVH. Leaving Cody potentially at 3.

As things stand I’m sure they would bid on Walker over Cochrane.

We all know how good Dougie is but I can’t remember a kid going so high, let alone pick 1, after playing such little footy. Richmond already have enough talented kids battling injury issues, and Port currently don’t have the picks to match a bid at 1 so they actually risk landing him and missing out on HVH. Of course things there will change between now and draft night.

Walker the Victorian, from their own NGA, to stifle a direct rival, just makes too much sense.

 

[JJBagger]

As things stand I’m sure they would bid on Walker over Cochrane.

We all know how good Dougie is but I can’t remember a kid going so high, let alone pick 1, after playing such little footy. Richmond already have enough talented kids battling injury issues, and Port currently don’t have the picks to match a bid at 1 so they actually risk landing him and missing out on HVH. Of course things there will change between now and draft night.

Walker the Victorian, from their own NGA, to stifle a direct rival, just makes too much sense.

Zeke Uwland played next to no football in his draft year, and got bid on at pick 2 last year. Wouldnt have been surprised if he’d gone pick 1 if the current draft rules were in last year too

 

[DZ4]

Zeke Uwland played next to no football in his draft year, and got bid on at pick 2 last year. Wouldnt have been surprised if he’d gone pick 1 if the current draft rules were in last year too

Hmm could’ve sworn Uwland played some games in the second half of the year despite missing the champs. Probably wrong.

Either way Cochrane’s lack of exposure can only work against us. Will be interesting to see if he gets any footy in this year.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

A lot of begging the question in this thread; Richmond, who don't even have the spoon sewn up yet, won't bid on Cochrane because Port currently don't have the points to match a bid...

It's like this every time we have a father/son in the draft. We must always have to pay the maximum, for whatever reason.

 

[ctwenty1]

because Carlton have guaranteed they will match for Cody. It is a certainty. It is only logical for them to bid then as it will give them an end of R1 pick plus they can then pick either Cochrane or HVM. However, another poster mentioned that we could offer them Sydneys R1 and our pick instead to facilitate a move for us up to first pick.

If Richmond (or Essendon) have pick 1 they will bid for either Cody or Cochran- whomever they are happy to take on the off chance port or we don’t match