2012 SC Forwards

[SJ]

Welcome back to SuperCoach for 2012.

Please refrain from starting new threads on individual players.

All forwards can be discussed here.

 

[Super Hans]

Thoughts on Paul Chapman? Seems to be unique with most going Buddy, Fyfe, Martin, Rioli, Zaka etc as their premiums.

 

[dlanod]

He's in my team at the moment. Forward premiums can be hard to find, and a cheaper Chapman is worth a punt over the constantly injured/massively inconsistent options around his price.

 

[SoupAStars]

a cheaper Chapman is worth a punt over the constantly injured/massively inconsistent options around his price.

He falls into that category though

 

[dlanod]

He falls into that category though

Played 21 games in both of the last two seasons (counting regular season games only) after reportedly making training changes to reduce his hamstring issues. He may have used to be injury prone, but any given player is likely to miss a game or two due to injury or suspension so I don't think he's any more risky than anyone bar Goodes.

 

[Berserker26]

Chris Scott has already called Chappy out as the standout on the track at the moment.

He was still playing well all of last year whilst carrying injury - injury free he should perform better.

 

[Eth]

Matthew Bate. Demolished the pre-season so far and is priced at just under $300k.

May take a punt considering it looks like he'll get a good run under Mark Neeld as a midfielder.

Only a hint of bias.

 

[Absolut Tigers]

What sort of price increase do you see the Master delivering? I think you need c.$150k to make it worthwhile picking up a player at this price as opposed to a Rookie?

 

[Eth]

I guess it's the same with picking up a player like Porplyzia, Lake, Hayes, or Grimes - you're taking a punt on a cheapish player in the hope that they can average 100.

Bate would have to average probably just under 100 to deliver on that price increase suggested. I'd say more risky than Porplyzia but potentially more rewarding, and if he's shithouse I'll dump him for a rookie for an extra $200k (because he'll go up in price regardless) to turn another rookie into a premo.

 

[borrat]

defitnetly getting master

having seen him dominate at casey and his rd 24 score make him a to good an opportunity to pass up

 

[jockreynolds]

Played 21 games in both of the last two seasons (counting regular season games only) after reportedly making training changes to reduce his hamstring issues. He may have used to be injury prone, but any given player is likely to miss a game or two due to injury or suspension so I don't think he's any more risky than anyone bar Goodes.

Really scratchin the chin about Chappy for season 2012 folks. I'm not completely convinced that the old hammys wont twang again at some stage and all the more likely this will happen as his years advance.

But again - full blown ridgey didge hard core premium forwards are a bit thin on the ground arent they.

an interesting one. An interesting one.

 

[Berserker26]

Who is this 'master' you speak of?

 

[Daniels]

Really scratchin the chin about Chappy for season 2012

Same! Feels like he could be one of those F3-F4 types that could really setup / destroy your SC season. Take him and he goes down early. Don't take him and he starts banging out 100's etc. But who else is on offer???

Tough one indeed!

 

[Liam Boy]

Who is this 'master' you speak of?

M. Bate

 

[borrat]

seriously hard not to go all out on the c/f's this season not to mention the fact that if you rate pfeiffer for example you could put him in midfield that would be handy come bye time but i dont rate him to have him in my midfield

 

[Zim^zuM]

What are people's thoughts on Israel Folau taking one of our rookie spots? Guaranteed to play, 1 year experience unlike Hunt. Will he do enough to score some points and rise at least a little in value?

 

[dlanod]

What are people's thoughts on Israel Folau taking one of our rookie spots? Guaranteed to play, 1 year experience unlike Hunt. Will he do enough to score some points and rise at least a little in value?

IMO the answer to your last question is easy: yes, but others will rise more. Compare him to Gumbleton a few years back - rookie priced, a bit of experience (obviously Gumby had more, but Folau has a better physique), increased to the $200-300k mark depending on what he scored in a given week but was generally worse than 80% of other forward rookies you could pick.

 

[Zim^zuM]

IMO the answer to your last question is easy: yes, but others will rise more. Compare him to Gumbleton a few years back - rookie priced, a bit of experience (obviously Gumby had more, but Folau has a better physique), increased to the $200-300k mark depending on what he scored in a given week but was generally worse than 80% of other forward rookies you could pick.

Very good answer

 

[jockreynolds]

seriously hard not to go all out on the c/f's this season not to mention the fact that if you rate pfeiffer for example you could put him in midfield that would be handy come bye time but i dont rate him to have him in my midfield

Very tasty forward/centreline dual position toilers this season indeed. I see this as a danger as well - many less experienced coaches will get caught in the trap of compromising the quality of their selections by the lure of dual position eligibility.

To my mind - get a short list of maybes together - and when its a line ball call as to who gets the nod give the nod to the DPP. Dont let DPP lure you into picking a struggler.

Wrote an article on our Supercoach site in November to this effect in November if you're interested

 

[CaptainChardonnay]

Anyone considering Hawkins as a bolter?

Let's face it, he tore it up in the finals and if he can carry that form he could be in the top 3 fwds by the end of the season. With his confidence high, it's looking more than likely he could be a real dominant fwd.

 

[Clunk]

Article in the Geelong Addy on Cats rucks and Hawkins cops a mention.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2012/01/21/303061_gfc.html

With the retirement of Cameron Mooney, and a shoulder injury to James Podsiadly, Hawkins' importance as the rock in the forward 50 is more pronounced than ever.

"I think all astute footy observers worked out that Tom thrived as a forward when he didn't have the extra ruck responsibilities, so that's our preference," Scott said. "But we think Tom can play better in the ruck than he has in the past. It's nice to have that up our sleeve but I don't think it's any secret that it's not our first option."

Sounds like the bulk of rucking will be handled by West and the Big O or Vardy. I think Hawkins may have been a better option if he was getting some time on the ball.

 

[manboob]

But as a rule of thumb he generally has better games when is not worrying about the Ruck. Could be in for some big scores with contest marks. Though I'll put him in the wait and see column along with Izzy.

 

[Ed D]

Didn't he start playing in the ruck because he wasn't playing well as a forward? I know that was some time ago but it seems to be more likely that he hit some form than found the right position to play.

 

[SJ]

Didn't he start playing in the ruck because he wasn't playing well as a forward? I know that was some time ago but it seems to be more likely that he hit some form than found the right position to play.

The circumstances leading him to first play ruck in 2010 were Mooney getting suspended so Podsiadly debuted (and played well), then Mooney returned but they didn't want to drop anyone, so they played all three. Soon Blake was out of the side after the Leigh Brown experiment was working well for Collingwood and Hawkins found himself rucking. It was nothing to do with poor form in the forward line, moreso a desperation for the team to become more 'flexible' I guess.

Article in the Geelong Addy on Cats rucks and Hawkins cops a mention.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2012/01/21/303061_gfc.html

With the retirement of Cameron Mooney, and a shoulder injury to James Podsiadly, Hawkins' importance as the rock in the forward 50 is more pronounced than ever.

"I think all astute footy observers worked out that Tom thrived as a forward when he didn't have the extra ruck responsibilities, so that's our preference," Scott said. "But we think Tom can play better in the ruck than he has in the past. It's nice to have that up our sleeve but I don't think it's any secret that it's not our first option."

Sounds like the bulk of rucking will be handled by West and the Big O or Vardy. I think Hawkins may have been a better option if he was getting some time on the ball.

Most Cats fans who follow the side closely will tell you the complete opposite. When he plays as a second ruck, yes he is a 'follower' but he barely gets a kick (nor hitout!) and is wasted on the ground. I posted this late last year:

A little more on this. His grand final performance didn't surprise me as much as it seems it surprised everyone else because Hawkins has actually been pretty good as a key forward since Round 17. Furthermore he has also allowed Podsiadly more breathing space as Podsiadly was previously being double-teamed since the second half of the Round 12 match against Hawthorn.

Hawkins' figures (per game)
Round 1 to Round 14 (9 games)/Round 17 to Grand Final (9 games)
Kicks: 5.8/8.1
Handballs: 4.7/6.2
Disposals: 10.4/14.3
Marks: 3.8/6.0
Contested marks: 1.1/3.6
Marks inside 50: 0.9/3.7
Hitouts: 6.8/1.6
Goals: 0.4/2.4
Behinds: 0.4/1.4
Goal assists: 0.4/1.1

Now, granted, Geelong did have two huge wins in that second block but Hawkins' numbers weren't any greater in those than the average. And actually only four games of the first block were against eventual finalists but five matches from the second block were against finalists.

Adding to this here is his DT and SC figures:

Round 1 to Round 14 (9 games)/Round 17 to Grand Final (9 games)
Dream Team: 51.9/77.3
SuperCoach: 56.1/93.4

 

[CaptainChardonnay]

Sounding more and more like a chance.....

$377k with potential to be a $500k + player.