2018- What Went Wrong

[Ford Fairlane]

List management. Carry too many cooked players who are past it.

Balance is all wrong. You only have to look at the sanfl side to see it.

Need some pace but those players should have skills and hardness.

Surprisingly some will think but no hard decisions on fringe players. Snelling and Hewett should have been let go and replaced with talls. We were never going to pick them so why keep them? Throw Toumpas in there too or under cooked.

Injuries at the wrong end of the year finally sunk us.

And yes even if some don't want to talk about is, bad luck took great pleasure in visiting us.

Our lack of any recognition in AFL House. We are easy to push around.

Coaching issues. We play a stoppage based game but concede too many clearances and contested possessions. Dont score enough.

See the problem Port?

 

[B0ydmental]

Is it possible to find out where St Kilda 2009 - 10, and Freo 2013 would sit on this graph, for reference to our own predicament?

Why is it that before I even finished reading your sentence my mind said I guarantee Russel Ebert handball knows this!

 

[Andre]

Off field our list strategy was suspect in a lack of tall depth (including a ready to go backup ruck). I was/am happy enough with the trade/free agent targets we’ve got, but FFS stop with recruiting undersized players.

The likes of Snelling, Neade and Sam Gray shouldn’t have been kept on the list. Unless you’ve got some exceptional talent (and none of these three do) such short players have no place in the AFL these days, screw good news recruited from Magpies fairytales. For the latter two, so many games we could have been pumping games into tall forwards (from 2013 through now) wasted.

Our game plan is chaos ball. We finally decided this year to have the structure we’d been crying out for - ruck, Hoff and 3 talls, then as soon as one goes down, we kill our structure by not doing like for like. Bloody hell, everyone here can see it wasn’t just about Frampton replacing Ryder, but allowing us to keep Dixon and Hoff in the roles they are most dangerous. Only for it to get (predictably) worse dropping Watts at one point to go even shorter.

Going shorter as the solution to every problem is Ken’s go to and it’s a domino effect of issues all over the ground from it. We can see it, why can’t our vaunted coaches? The 23rd best player on the list that’s a small, replacing an injured tall, is not going to have the benefit of the 33rd best player on the list that’s a tall will. How ****ing hard is it to see and select to this?

We can add the usual ones, that our players are mentally weak. I’ve posted numerous times anyone here in 2007 or recruited across 2008-2010 shouldn’t be near a leadership position as they are broken. They seize up when potential success is on the line, as they are afraid of failing in the big finals games, so they capitulate (not intentionally). They should all be kept far away from leadership roles.

There’s plenty more, but those are my key ones.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Sorry to interject here, but what has happened to Wingard? A few years ago I thought he was just about the best up and coming player in the AFL. He is like a barometer in your team. He stars and you win. He has seemingly gone backwards. Is he injured, not used properly or just has lost interest? He is a gun you cannot afford to be playing just average footy.

Do you guys know what's happened? As a neutral I am a huge fan and so very disappointed in his year.

 

[B0ydmental]

Other better Minds here are analysing the specifics stepping two steps back there's three overriding contexts

the first is that when we have had a foot on Team throat for some unusual reason with changed our set set up and let them back in the game

the 2nd is that when we have been in winning positions we have somehow found loss from the jaws of victory ...inexplicably like no other clubs

and the 3rd is that when we have been in losing positions but it had a glimmer of hope and got momentum we typically always lose them.

Basically the wins we fall over the line and we go, ooow that hurt to watch .

I said for 5 years and I will maintain it Ken is a loser. Kosh is a loser he's a giggle guy and Keith is all words. he went to that we know who you are meeting wearing tracksuit pants I'm in the corporate world you wear a freakin suit if you want respect.

learn the word decimation get on the Wikipedia or dictionary and read up on it you want people to respect you in this game you've got a Neck someone, not elect a millennial on the board

We exist to be Mediocre. Really we do

so Ken is just a loser . the biggest of them all not a loser like the capital L on the forehead loser not about his personality but he loses his like the guy who loses at the casino and keeps going back he's like those idiots we know selling noni juice or the latest amway or Network Marketing they're just freaking losers their life is a shit sammich of bad luck

that's Ken he's a loser and it's infected the entire Club from left to right...THEY SIMPLY DONT KNOW _HOW_TO WIN ANYMORE

 

[Rexie J]

Sorry to interject here, but what has happened to Wingard? A few years ago I thought he was just about the best up and coming player in the AFL. He is like a barometer in your team. He stars and you win. He has seemingly gone backwards. Is he injured, not used properly or just has lost interest? He is a gun you cannot afford to be playing just average footy.

Do you guys know what's happened? As a neutral I am a huge fan and so very disappointed in his year.

Coaching has stunted his ability to play the spontaneous reflex style highly skilled players possess. It's a trait throughtout the entire team.

 

[Nihilus]

for me

1) we have a main ruck (Ryder) and Developing ruck (Hayes, Frampton, Ladhams) but nothing in between
2) we have way too many HBF'ers - up to 8 (or is it 9 players)
3) we don't have enough outside mids
4) we don't have enough mids with speed.
5) we don't have enough developing KPP Players (if we name Toumpus at CHB and Neade at CHF for the Magpies it screams that we don't have enough)
6) we have too many players that go missing in games or don't do enough or Both e.g. Neade (remember Neade's 5 hb only in the 1st Eagles game, Amon, AJ)
7) we have players playing blinders with the magpies (Snelling, Trengove etc) and we refuse to play them (refer the Westies game)
8) Our attack has dried up (other than Robbie when was the last player to kick 5 goals)
9) Other than Robbie / Dixon do we have any FWD players who can 3 or 4 goals in multiple games ? (chad use too but he has gone backwards in this area)
10) we are slow in reacting in the last 5 min of Quarters - how many times do we give up goals in the last 5 minutes of quarters ?
11) do we have someone tall who can take an intercept mark in defence ? (some one like McGovern, Lever etc)
12) our assistant coaches (except Bassett who has done well with our young defence) need a move around & refresh with new assignments
13) our skills have need a lot of work
14) our game plan has changed since the last final we have won

 

[Adam Marrett23]

Sorry to interject here, but what has happened to Wingard? A few years ago I thought he was just about the best up and coming player in the AFL. He is like a barometer in your team. He stars and you win. He has seemingly gone backwards. Is he injured, not used properly or just has lost interest? He is a gun you cannot afford to be playing just average footy.

Do you guys know what's happened? As a neutral I am a huge fan and so very disappointed in his year.

Not used properly is my opinion. He was injured towards the end of the pre season, we waites until we played you lot at home to put him on the ball, he got going then, then we went back to throwing him everywhere. I think he is poorly coached and still is our most important player outside of Robbie Gray. As you said if Chad is on, we generally win. I'm expecting a big year from him if he's allowed to actually play to his strengths next year. I could also say that about 15 other players of ours.

 

[DrEvil_]

Not used properly is my opinion. He was injured towards the end of the pre season, we waites until we played you lot at home to put him on the ball, he got going then, then we went back to throwing him everywhere. I think he is poorly coached and still is our most important player outside of Robbie Gray. As you said if Chad is on, we generally win. I'm expecting a big year from him if he's allowed to actually play to his strengths next year. I could also say that about 15 other players of ours.

At times I thought Wingard must've been used as a tagger.

 

[Port01]

You’d need the Squiggle formula to be accurate but since the 2009 Saints won 20 games @ 155% I think it’s fair to suggest that they would’ve been balls deep in the graph’s glory hole.

st Kilda averaged 100 points a game in 2009, 2010 was about 88
2013 freo was about 90ish.

we need to score about 250 points next week to equal the worst of Ross Lyons 'good' teams.

 

[powerpowerpower]

A game plan once built on run and spread changed in 2015 to a chippy chippy keep possession plan. Problem is, all opponents had to do was find a man and that game was pulled apart with ease across the Half back, due to missed kicks and off handballs.

2018 We tried to add speed again, but unfortunately the ball kept getting to Half forward and got rebounded back because we played a high press and forwards couldn't get back fast enough to capitalise on the speed, so we had to chip it around half forward again.

......thats my story anyways when my mates asked whats wrong haha

 

[edgie]

Sorry to interject here, but what has happened to Wingard? A few years ago I thought he was just about the best up and coming player in the AFL. He is like a barometer in your team. He stars and you win. He has seemingly gone backwards. Is he injured, not used properly or just has lost interest? He is a gun you cannot afford to be playing just average footy.

Do you guys know what's happened? As a neutral I am a huge fan and so very disappointed in his year.

As a few have said, coaching and system. Also to me, body. Has been training as an inside mid for a few seasons now, so has lost some of his spryness around the footy that made him so elusive in the forward lines. Is carrying a bit more weight for his new role, so redeploying back to a mostly forward will take a whole new pre-season program.

 

[raptalia]

Well done everyone who has posted in this thread I didn't read too much that I disagreed with. Hopefully the people who matter down at Alberton will share your collective view and most importantly do something about it or should I post, know what to do to fix the situation.

One thing that wasn't mentioned was the decision to allow the Captain to give up the No1 guernsey. It was in a good cause and had no bearing on the result but 50 years of tradition was lost in an instant and you have to wonder just how much those running the Club care about our tradition when they can allow things like that to happen albeit for a good cause. Tradition is what separates us from the other side of town and it is what got us into the AFL so it is really sad that we lose any of it. Maybe it is symptomatic of the fact that we have lost focus on football and have become a community organisation. I would rather be known as a mean arsed group of winners than a nice bunch of losers. I do not feel any joy in posting what appears to be mean spirited view and I realise that others may disagree but you have to wonder, if people are prepared to give up a 50 year tradition what else are they prepared to do do look good.

The real problem for me is if we keep repeating the mistakes as listed in this thread we will develop an ingrained losing culture and that will not be fixed overnight.

 

[GremioPower]

Port’s season ended for me when McGovern took an uncontested Mark inside 50 with seconds to go. I didn’t watch Collingwood- had a lunch that I would’ve moved if... The final flurry of false hope may still occur but this season is now out of our hands and dead.

So what went wrong? Everything seemed to be going to a plan right up to Fremantle. Sure, some losses we would rather not have but still on track - then Fremantle.

Post what you like but there is already a thread for Hinkley Haters - I’m more concerned about the processes than the personalities. I need to process how the hope of the Summer of Costanza has turned into this shitty nightmare end of a season where we might not even make the 8.

Geee... I would have preferred a thread on what went right. The list of wrongs knows no end!

 

[FishingRick04]

This has been an unfortunate issue.

Our best team imo has Ryder, Westhoff, Dixon, Watts and Marshall. I think they managed to play 2 quarters of football together for the year.

Not an excuse, but a shame we couldnt get them allmout there at once.

Our gameplan stinks, thats what i think went wrong. We try to play Mourinho-ball, instead we look like Moyes Everton

Plug and play the next option, then next and then next.

Dont change systems because of loss of player.

2015 we sucked because we gave up on 2014 game plan rather than just get better at it!

Now what game plan do we have?

 

[SimonSpeilberg]

Just so disappointed we only got one prelim and a handful of finals with this list. With the likes of Ryder, Boak, gray, westhoff coming to the end of their careers it feels like a massively wasted opportunity.

 

[FishingRick04]

Also Macca19 last year you brought up our fitness program.

Maybe Burgo’s philosophy for AFL isn’t that good?

We definitely looked cooked yesterday now run at all compared to round 1. A bye doesn’t make that much difference.

We can run out a full season and would explain our stop start game plan and looking to play contest after contest to avoid run and carry.

 

[ab56452001]

Going to pin it down at Ken's refusal to rest Ryder and give Frampton some development. His niggle was announced early and there was zero action plan for it. What has happened? Ryder is cooked. When Ryder is done our entire midfield collapses.

I mean our forward entries are ridiculous but we can at least win games and beat good sides in spite of that.

But not planning for Ryder is just sheer arrogance. Arguably the most important player in the AFL right now. Dixon beating Sydney in the rucks in round 2 blinded the coaches.

Yes , many if not most called it that way early in the Season , I can't believe ALL the Assistants saw it KH's way .

 

[FishingRick04]

Just so disappointed we only got one prelim and a handful of finals with this list. With the likes of Ryder, Boak, gray, westhoff coming to the end of their careers it feels like a massively wasted opportunity.

Take it back further, one prelim since 2008. 10 years.....

3 final series. Most likely one final series in 4 years in Ken’s recent time.

 

[ab56452001]

Round 1 and we saw a three-man tall forward line. Despite being close to our biggest win, the same wasn't selected again all season. Injuries didn't help, but that just highlights how poor our development of the next generation has been.

Yep , something not right with us atm , I was critical of Impey's disposal skills last year , Hawthorn seems to have managed to get an improvement out of him.

 

[Hammer#8]

Gameplan wise, the coaching group were convinced that a defensive gameplan was the right path to success; this meant where we gain the lead, kill the contest and go defensive for most of the game. The majority of our players had to be recoached and had to carry out with little mastery into playing this defensive, ultra-conservative mindset which sacrificed their own flair, natural strengths and unpredictability. This worked some weeks with unfashionable results, but to what we saw in the Showdown and against West Coast you can't be the dam wall for entire quarters, eventually you have to score yourself before your opponent catches up and outscores you.

I thought last year that our attack/defense split was much more balanced and potent. This year our defensive first mindset got too far negative, the game against Freo being the perfect example where we needed an attacking mindset early on before we slowed the game down to a grinding halt. I think that our defensive, stoppage fetish gameplan lacks sustainability and causes fatigue to the point where we can't swing it back in the other direction during games (the stats back this up, we rank 15th in the AFL as the worst scoring 4th quarter team in the league).

 

[raptalia]

Also Macca19 last year you brought up our fitness program.

Maybe Burgo’s philosophy for AFL isn’t that good?

We definitely looked cooked yesterday now run at all compared to round 1. A bye doesn’t make that much difference.

We can run out a full season and would explain our stop start game plan and looking to play contest after contest to avoid run and carry.

I had a similar thought last week when I thought West Coast were running away from us in that last five minutes. It got me wondering if we were still using Burgo's fitness strategy? It all fell apart for Burgo after that last trip to Dubai but I wonder if we should not revisit a Dubai style preseason?

Maybe you are right and with our game plan we run twice as far in circles as some sides run in straight lines?

 

[elee]

B.S. pressos... that's what's wrong
i dunno whether to be entertained or embarrassed

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-18/port-feeling-the-pinch-says-hinkley

 

[elee]

Gameplan wise, the coaching group were convinced that a defensive gameplan was the right path to success; this meant where we gain the lead, kill the contest and go defensive for most of the game. The majority of our players had to be recoached and had to carry out with little mastery into playing this defensive, ultra-conservative mindset which sacrificed their own flair, natural strengths and unpredictability. This worked some weeks with unfashionable results, but to what we saw in the Showdown and against West Coast you can't be the dam wall for entire quarters, eventually you have to score yourself before your opponent catches up and outscores you.

I thought last year that our attack/defense split was much more balanced and potent. This year our defensive first mindset got too far negative, the game against Freo being the perfect example where we needed an attacking mindset early on before we slowed the game down to a grinding halt. I think that our defensive, stoppage fetish gameplan lacks sustainability and causes fatigue to the point where we can't swing it back in the other direction during games (the stats back this up, we rank 15th in the AFL as the worst scoring 4th quarter team in the league).

what really kiilled us yesterday were 'semi-stoppages' from our back.. we get the ball - jink around, handball around - ever looking for that perfect handball.. played around at the back and then loses the ball -maybe due to lack of composure and ball-skills. how many time did that happened yesterday.. i counted about 5 times. If you're not confident - then just go long; drop that defensive sh*t and flood up and attack

 

[Smithy7]

Plug and play the next option, then next and then next.

Dont change systems because of loss of player.

2015 we sucked because we gave up on 2014 game plan rather than just get better at it!

Now what game plan do we have?

Now what game plan do we have?
Good question .. the Players cant follow it ... nor can the Members ...