2020 AFL International Cup

[BringBackTorps]

Ok, I'm not 100% with the relative football standards across the leagues but as a starting point I would suggest.

1. The state competitions hold their grand finals after the AFL GF.
2. The premiers would then play off to become champion team.
3. The WAFL, SANFL and a Victorian league. I say Victorian league because any AFL affiliated teams should be banned except maybe the NEAFL. Of course Tasmania should be represented as well. IMO, Tasmainia should have been in the NEAFL by now.
4. If Tasmania played off against the NEAFL then there would be four elite teams producing a champion over two weeks.

The VAFA, with c. 11,000 adult male players, is easily the biggest in Australia. In rep matches, it usually defeats the next 2 strongest, non- VFL comps. in Vic., the Eastern Football League & the Victorian Country Football League.
A VFL rep team, IMO, would easily beat a VAFA rep. team. I'm not sure how a VAFA rep. team would perform against a non-AFL linked VFL team eg Williamstown.

The TSL & Tas. GR AF, sadly, due to the damage inflicted on it by the VFL/AFL neglect, would not be competitive against the SANFL or AFL.

Are you saying only non-AFL affiliatd NEAFL teams should be in this end-of-year comp.? How strong would they be?
How many games would be played in this comp/its format? Short game round-robin?

The Foxtel Cup, pitting state teams, was not popular. A relevant guide? It would be great to trial another, end of season comp. Clear air of the AFL is CRUCIAL.

 

[RedV3x]

How many games would be played in this comp/its format?

Williamstown is a good example as it played in the Foxtel Cup final. The Foxtel Cup faired as expected against football overwhelming competition.
I would exempt AFL aligned NEAFL teams only for the sake of a national competition. This probably sounds like a cop out.
I see only four leagues with three games over two weeks with possibly a fourth game for a NEAFL Vs Tasmania qualifier.
Thus:
1. Established teams with established followings.
2. State league teams boosted by representing their state.
3. Three big games only - that should produce a profit or at least be cost neutral.
4. A national champion from state leagues making for a national competition and national recognition.

I will play the devil's advocate and say the major problem is the AFL as they probably wouldn't allow dual affiliation with the new entity.

 

[NorthernBastard]

seems this discussion is off topic...

In regards to the IC, I know quite a few people who have competed in this tournament and I think most would want it to remain in Melbourne. It's a shame the tournament doesn't get more exposure, but the internationals love coming over and seeing the iconic MCG, knowing they have a chance to play a final on this ground, or Marvel for the women last time. The novelty may have worn off for those who have been coming for years, but those coming out for the first time would disagree.

 

[RedV3x]

seems this discussion is off topic...

No. Just quiet.

In regards to the IC, I know quite a few people who have competed in this tournament and I think most would want it to remain in Melbourne.

It's up to the competitors as they're the ones forking out.

It's a shame the tournament doesn't get more exposure,

Well, that is a topic for discusiion. The main reasons the I.C. doesn't get any exposure is because nobody is pushing it and he I.C. is swamped by other football in Melbourne.

The novelty may have worn off

Yes, the novelty has worn off for a number of competitors playing in Melbourne and playing finals in empty iconic stadiums.
For example, teams could be playing at WAFL games with finals at the world's best stadium in Perth.
For example the I.C. GF could be played on the bye before the AFL finals.
For example the I.C. could be televised since it fulfills all the criteria.

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

Sunny Coast!

http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20191209162433441

 

[TWLS]

A couple of things -
Who/what group were the other bidders or was that just rumours.
At least the overseas participants should see some decent weather as we have here in Perth and not be cold in August Melbourne.
Number of teams not mentioned and if there is a cap as per previous Cup who misses out in the Women.
With the Brisbane Lions likely headed for the finals again there maybe a more AR interest up there. However the Eagles never draw big crowds up there so perhaps a big Melb Club would have been better for their finals.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

A couple of things -
Who/what group were the other bidders or was that just rumours.
At least the overseas participants should see some decent weather as we have here in Perth and not be cold in August Melbourne.
Number of teams not mentioned and if there is a cap as per previous Cup who misses out in the Women.
With the Brisbane Lions likely headed for the finals again there maybe a more AR interest up there. However the Eagles never draw big crowds up there so perhaps a big Melb Club would have been better for their finals.

It's believed the other bidder was a Melbourne/Ballarat bid (something like early rounds in Ballarat and finals in Melbourne).

It's also believed that the cap will be 16 men's teams (8 in each division) and 8 women's teams.

Most likely the eight women's teams are...

1. Ireland - CONFIRMED
2. Canada - CONFIRMED
3. Great Britain - CONFIRMED
4. USA -CONFIRMED
5. PNG - CONFIRMED
6. Fiji - CONFIRMED
7. New Zealand
8. Germany - CONFIRMED

European Crusaders not attending (replaced by Germany) and it's believed that Pakistan will be told "thanks, but no thanks" in favour of NZ entering.

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

It's believed the other bidder was a Melbourne/Ballarat bid (something like early rounds in Ballarat and finals in Melbourne).

It's also believed that the cap will be 16 men's teams (8 in each division) and 8 women's teams.

Most likely the eight women's teams are...

1. Ireland - CONFIRMED
2. Canada - CONFIRMED
3. Great Britain - CONFIRMED
4. USA -CONFIRMED
5. PNG - CONFIRMED
6. Fiji - CONFIRMED
7. New Zealand
8. Germany - CONFIRMED

European Crusaders not attending (replaced by Germany) and it's believed that Pakistan will be told "thanks, but no thanks" in favour of NZ entering.

While I'm all for regional groupings being replaced by states as much as possible, I wonder where this leaves non-German Crusaders? Ana Barisic from Croatia was quite decent in 2017 and of course Coline Duquet of France made the world team and has been playing/training in Victoria from last year. Would be a shame for them (and other potential players) to miss out, but I suppose there are hard luck stories for individual players at every cup.

 

[RedV3x]

While I'm all for regional groupings being replaced by states as much as possible, I wonder where this leaves non-German Crusaders? Ana Barisic from Croatia was quite decent in 2017 and of course Coline Duquet of France made the world team and has been playing/training in Victoria from last year. Would be a shame for them (and other potential players) to miss out, but I suppose there are hard luck stories for individual players at every cup.

I don't see the necessity to restrict the women's teams to just one division. It probably would be possible to get at least a handful of other teams in a developmental division. It's not costing the Cup much if I unerstand right. If just 4 more tems compete, that's 100 players and staff at least at $1,500 each on ground expenses giving $150,000 extra income to Maroochdore.

On the bright side, that makes accommodation less competitive.

 

[RedV3x]

With the Brisbane Lions likely headed for the finals again there maybe a more AR interest up there.

Who broke this news ? The AFL? The media? AFLQ? Queensland media? Tourism Australia? Tourism Queensland?

It was WFN. AFL - NFI.

 

[TWLS]

Who broke this news ? The AFL? The media? AFLQ? Queensland media? Tourism Australia? Tourism Queensland?

It was WFN. AFL - NFI.

It's believed the other bidder was a Melbourne/Ballarat bid (something like early rounds in Ballarat and finals in Melbourne).

It's also believed that the cap will be 16 men's teams (8 in each division) and 8 women's teams.

Most likely the eight women's teams are...

1. Ireland - CONFIRMED
2. Canada - CONFIRMED
3. Great Britain - CONFIRMED
4. USA -CONFIRMED
5. PNG - CONFIRMED
6. Fiji - CONFIRMED
7. New Zealand
8. Germany - CONFIRMED

European Crusaders not attending (replaced by Germany) and it's believed that Pakistan will be told "thanks, but no thanks" in favour of NZ entering.

Two points about the 8 Womens teams
Positive point = A fairly good geographical spread of countries/regions involved.
Negative = Pakistan was recently visited by a guy from Victoria promoting the game and the IC. The Pakistani women will be very disappointed to say the least particularly as they are breaking down social barriers up there along with other female sports up there.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Two points about the 8 Womens teams
Positive point = A fairly good geographical spread of countries/regions involved.
Negative = Pakistan was recently visited by a guy from Victoria promoting the game and the IC. The Pakistani women will be very disappointed to say the least particularly as they are breaking down social barriers up there along with other female sports up there.

There was concerns around Pakistan, hanging over from their 2017 appearance, due to poor tour coordination from their end (last minute Visas, accommodation screw up, etc) and they fact they only kicked one goal for the whole tournament (getting smashed by every side).

From a casual chat I had with someone who has some influence, the idea of encouraging Pakistan to compete in the AFL Asia Championships instead was floated. Gives Pakistan more football (yearly tournament) and a chance to prove themselves worthy for IC2023.

 

[RedV3x]

There was concerns around Pakistan, hanging over from their 2017 appearance, due to poor tour coordination from their end (last minute Visas, accommodation screw up, etc) and they fact they only kicked one goal for the whole tournament (getting smashed by every side).

From a casual chat I had with someone who has some influence, the idea of encouraging Pakistan to compete in the AFL Asia Championships instead was floated. Gives Pakistan more football (yearly tournament) and a chance to prove themselves worthy for IC2023.

They are both very valid points but it seems a little clinical to chop the women off at 8 teams especially if there are numbers for a second division.
9 teams with the European Crusaders or a second division with Pakistan, India, an AFL Asia team or Pacific team etc.

 

[TWLS]

There was concerns around Pakistan, hanging over from their 2017 appearance, due to poor tour coordination from their end (last minute Visas, accommodation screw up, etc) and they fact they only kicked one goal for the whole tournament (getting smashed by every side).

From a casual chat I had with someone who has some influence, the idea of encouraging Pakistan to compete in the AFL Asia Championships instead was floated. Gives Pakistan more football (yearly tournament) and a chance to prove themselves worthy for IC2023.

That is interesting stuff quoted.
Another country I have an interest in is India which is slowly building the grassroots up there and has aimed for at least 25% Female participation at this time.
Chadip who runs most of it up there has indicated that at the earliest the men will be more competitive by the 2023 Cup.
The women will likely be 2026/2029 version.
The AFL should increase the AFL ASIA budget but it wont happen yet but the structure is being slowly built and will over time become a bigger organisation.

 

[BigBrainUSA]

A couple of things -
Who/what group were the other bidders or was that just rumours.
At least the overseas participants should see some decent weather as we have here in Perth and not be cold in August Melbourne.
Number of teams not mentioned and if there is a cap as per previous Cup who misses out in the Women.
With the Brisbane Lions likely headed for the finals again there maybe a more AR interest up there. However the Eagles never draw big crowds up there so perhaps a big Melb Club would have been better for their finals.

It came down to Sunshine Coast or a Melbourne/Ballarat combine, per my discussions with the AFL. There were a lot of signs in the lead up to the announcement that pointed to Sunshine Coast based on my discussions with people.

With respect to the final, it doesn't seem to be a matter of who they were playing, but rather that a game was going on, period, to frame the final matches around. There's also the possibility that the July 25th game vs St Kilda would host an opening ceremony, but that might not happen at all.

There is a lot of concern regarding cost, considering the lateness of the announcement. I know some of the teams are waiting to see if the AFL is going to assist with accommodations (insofar as "ringing" them off so to speak) as well as flights.

Two points about the 8 Womens teams
Positive point = A fairly good geographical spread of countries/regions involved.
Negative = Pakistan was recently visited by a guy from Victoria promoting the game and the IC. The Pakistani women will be very disappointed to say the least particularly as they are breaking down social barriers up there along with other female sports up there.

We're at the point where the format and the quality of teams will take precedence over the "goodwill" portion of the competition. I would love to see Pakistan there but not at the expense of a better team like a New Zealand, and not at the expense of an eight-team format that can easily fit within the confines of the weekend and the venue itself. We all remember how farcical the D1 men's setup with 10 teams was, it's best to avoid that.

While I'm all for regional groupings being replaced by states as much as possible, I wonder where this leaves non-German Crusaders? Ana Barisic from Croatia was quite decent in 2017 and of course Coline Duquet of France made the world team and has been playing/training in Victoria from last year. Would be a shame for them (and other potential players) to miss out, but I suppose there are hard luck stories for individual players at every cup.

I think, until they can bring in full teams, they're s.o.l., which is a damn shame based on how fast the game is growing in those two countries. I think Germany as a whole would be better than a composite side, and New Zealand's quick growth I feel should be rewarded with a spot. Japan would be an interesting inclusion too, but I don't know that they'd be on the level as the others until they get a couple of Asian championships under their belt.

 

[RedV3x]

We're at the point where the format and the quality of teams will take precedence over the "goodwill" portion of the competition.

Then if the idea is to have an "elite" competition then shouldn't it at least be promoted and promoted as such?

 

[RedV3x]

Quick question.
What is the qualification for the I.C. - is it being a national or playing in a country's competition?
i.e. Could a French person play for Germany if they played in a german team?

 

[NorthernBastard]

Quick question.
What is the qualification for the I.C. - is it being a national or playing in a country's competition?
i.e. Could a French person play for Germany if they played in a German team?

I believe it's where you spent your formative years of childhood I believe? could be wrong.


Shame it's not in Melbourne. I understand the pro's of sunny coast, but my internation pals are all a bit bummed it's not down in Melbourne - AKA football Mecca

 

[TWLS]

I noticed the Womens team list above had NZ as unconfirmed - Well folks they think their Womens team is coming.
Read this from their Website and go down near the bottom.

AFL International Cup heads to the Sunshine Coast

The AFL is pleased to announce the 2020 AFL International Cup (IC20) will be held on the Sunshine Coast from Saturday July 25 through to Saturday Augu

aflnz.co.nz

Also have to agree with Red - What a low key announcement overall for the Cup.

 

[RedV3x]

Also have to agree with Red - What a low key announcement overall for the Cup.

Maybe i was a little hasty. The QAFL has made an announcement. ATM no other announcements.
Hopefully there will be an announcement timed for greater impact with the public rather than the competing nations.

I see Maroochydore as a step in the right direction.
I enjoyed Melbourne and can only remember one miserable wet afternoon. There was always something to do in the city.
i presume the AFL is going down the path of the USAFL and the Euro Cup and "tendering" for the best underwriting now.
The facilities at Maroochydore seem to be top notch and accomodation is not far away.
There could also be more potential for social bonding between international players.
The I.C. should make a big impact on Maroochydore and football in the area.
If Tourism Queensland is investing in this there might be some promotion for football in the state of Queensland.
I will watching the curtain game intensely as I've often said this is what's required.
I hope the AFL doesn't cheap out by not having a march past at the Gabba at the start.
I wonder what the AFL will do to replace the event-ending Crown affair.
I also wonder if they've upgraded to a more uniform coverage?

 

[TWLS]

Maybe i was a little hasty. The QAFL has made an announcement. ATM no other announcements.
Hopefully there will be an announcement timed for greater impact with the public rather than the competing nations.

I see Maroochydore as a step in the right direction.
I enjoyed Melbourne and can only remember one miserable wet afternoon. There was always something to do in the city.
i presume the AFL is going down the path of the USAFL and the Euro Cup and "tendering" for the best underwriting now.
The facilities at Maroochydore seem to be top notch and accomodation is not far away.
There could also be more potential for social bonding between international players.
The I.C. should make a big impact on Maroochydore and football in the area.
If Tourism Queensland is investing in this there might be some promotion for football in the state of Queensland.
I will watching the curtain game intensely as I've often said this is what's required.
I hope the AFL doesn't cheap out by not having a march past at the Gabba at the start.
I wonder what the AFL will do to replace the event-ending Crown affair.
I also wonder if they've upgraded to a more uniform coverage?

Right you have opened up points for discussion.
First up have never attended any I.C.
What is the economic model -Who pays what - Who makes any money.
This event is in Rugby Code heartland so have to be realistic with awareness up there.
I can understand the social model - Bringing lots of people together to share a common love of our game. Being able to talk "Footy" with people who know what you are talking about like we do here in Australia.
All things considered it is a bit of a miracle that anybody overseas plays our game at all -All due to expats and enthusiastic locals in the first place.
Hope it all goes well.

 

[RedV3x]

What is the economic model -Who pays what - Who makes any money.

Countries pay their own way. I understand some assistance was given to first time countries. AFL supplies the ground and umpires etc.

This event is in Rugby Code heartland so have to be realistic with awareness up there.

The I.C. is literally buried by football in Melbourne. Wont be hard to get more awareness in Queensland.

I can understand the social model.

I can almost guarantee more socializing in Maroochydore being a town. In Melbourne it was largely confined to the final formal dinner.

All things considered it is a bit of a miracle that anybody overseas plays our game at all -All due to expats and enthusiastic locals in the first place.

Not really. Proportionally (per head of population) Australian Football is easily the most popular sport in the world. It was that way from the very start.
The game has something for everybody. It has the most options of any sport. It is ultimately nationals that take the game forward.
In some places (non English-speaking mostly ) the "Australian" factor is almost irrelevant except for acknowledging the expertise is in Australia.
In other countries the "Australian" factor is exploited to promote the game.

 

[BigBrainUSA]

Maybe i was a little hasty. The QAFL has made an announcement. ATM no other announcements.
Hopefully there will be an announcement timed for greater impact with the public rather than the competing nations.

I see Maroochydore as a step in the right direction.
I enjoyed Melbourne and can only remember one miserable wet afternoon. There was always something to do in the city.
i presume the AFL is going down the path of the USAFL and the Euro Cup and "tendering" for the best underwriting now.
The facilities at Maroochydore seem to be top notch and accomodation is not far away.
There could also be more potential for social bonding between international players.
The I.C. should make a big impact on Maroochydore and football in the area.
If Tourism Queensland is investing in this there might be some promotion for football in the state of Queensland.
I will watching the curtain game intensely as I've often said this is what's required.
I hope the AFL doesn't cheap out by not having a march past at the Gabba at the start.
I wonder what the AFL will do to replace the event-ending Crown affair.
I also wonder if they've upgraded to a more uniform coverage?

I'm excited to check out the facilities in Maroochydore, given the fact that everyone's been raving about it. They did in fact, put the host up for bids. If nothing else, it's a way to generate better funding / spending for the event to keep their, and everyone else's, costs down. I'm sure there will be another Crown-like venue to host us when it's over.

As for the coverage, it was indicated to me that they wanted to continue what they did in 2017 and get matches at the main venue streamed. The only ones they didn't telecast were the ones at remote sites during the school and community rounds. They haven't announced if they are doing those this time around (and they won't until the northern spring, I imagine), but if they do, I would think that the clubs would be on their own to produce coverage. We did three of the USA's 10 games in house, and the fourth one was produced by the Eastern Football League. There's also the possibility that AFLQ will help out by doing doubleheader broadcasts.

What I will say about QLD v Melbourne in terms of hosting is that, over the last two ICs, many teams developed relationships with teams in Melbourne for training and hosting matches. The USA, for example, had the VU Western Spurs and Montrose -- the latter had talked about hosting the women's games next year at night as they were installing new lights. It's possible that each team has been scouting out potential partners ahead of the announcement (as opposed to waiting until it was made official).

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Maybe i was a little hasty. The QAFL has made an announcement. ATM no other announcements.
Hopefully there will be an announcement timed for greater impact with the public rather than the competing nations.

I see Maroochydore as a step in the right direction.
I enjoyed Melbourne and can only remember one miserable wet afternoon. There was always something to do in the city.
i presume the AFL is going down the path of the USAFL and the Euro Cup and "tendering" for the best underwriting now.
The facilities at Maroochydore seem to be top notch and accomodation is not far away.
There could also be more potential for social bonding between international players.
The I.C. should make a big impact on Maroochydore and football in the area.
If Tourism Queensland is investing in this there might be some promotion for football in the state of Queensland.
I will watching the curtain game intensely as I've often said this is what's required.
I hope the AFL doesn't cheap out by not having a march past at the Gabba at the start.
I wonder what the AFL will do to replace the event-ending Crown affair.
I also wonder if they've upgraded to a more uniform coverage?

I'm with the earlier thinking that the announcement was done poorly, and had little impact.

This should have had Gil, along with a Queensland state government minister, do a small presser at the Gabbag, announcing the Sunshine Coast as host of the preliminaries rounds and the Gabba hosting the IC Cup Grand Finals.

I know some of the IC regulars are looking forward to a new host city/region, but I know some of the newbies are disappointed not being to have the same experience as those before them - that being in footy heartland and being able to see half-a-dozen or more AFL games at different venues.

I think (although they didn't bid, as far as I know) Adelaide, Perth or even Hobart hosting would have been better - Adelaide has enough SANFL venues where they could have played a bunch of night matches (a rarity at IC) - opposed to the Sunshine Coast where I fear a struggle for enough quality umpires (outside their normal local commitments) and also other support staff (admin staff, commentators, etc).

To be fair, the venue will be better than Royal Park... which was chosen as a venue in the past not just because the fields were next to each other, but that it was just around the corner from AFL Vic Headquarters (as AFL Vic got lumped with managing match days along with all their other ops).

 

[RedV3x]

What I will say about QLD v Melbourne in terms of hosting is that, over the last two ICs, many teams developed relationships with teams in Melbourne for training and hosting matches.

Yes, that is a very good point.