List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[WalshistheGOAT]

The AFL also is reportedly considering opening up trading draft picks 2 years in advance as early as this year meaning we could have 3 first rounders to work with.

 

[gbatman]

No we don't.

We will have 2 extra players through mid season draft
3-4 draft picks
Rookie Picks
Free Agents
Trading future picks
SSP's
Irish recruits etc

So many options these days

Chances of the players coming in the mid season draft being AFL quality though? I am going to suggest that none of our midseason draft picks will be on the list next season. We aren't a bad side and the talent isn't that great. It's not like we have a super early pick to kick it off either.

Kids take 2-5 seasons to be AFL ready which is when our window will be closing.

Our rookie picks so far have been rubbish and I'm not excited about what is to come there.

Free agents, yeah I am listening. Right age demographic.

I think we need to temper expectations on the Irish lads. 2 or 3 seasons to be AFL ready. They come with a lot of talent but need a lot of developing.

The age demographic of the bulk of the top end of our list suggests we don't have loads of time to play with. Maybe the Cripps, Weitering, Curnow and McKay generation can win flags as 32-35 year olds, maybe. But I think the next 3 or 4 seasons are our prime period and after that we are probably going to be looking really hard to replace our top enders. Which is a possibility. But we also don't want to be a club that is forever rebuilding.

I think we need to draft youth but we need to go really hard at players that fit our age demographic. We aren't a young team. We are playing finals now so that means trading and free agents are really important.

 

[Soapy V]

Chances of the players coming in the mid season draft being AFL quality though? I am going to suggest that none of our midseason draft picks will be on the list next season. We aren't a bad side and the talent isn't that great. It's not like we have a super early pick to kick it off either.

Kids take 2-5 seasons to be AFL ready which is when our window will be closing.

Our rookie picks so far have been rubbish and I'm not excited about what is to come there.

Free agents, yeah I am listening. Right age demographic.

I think we need to temper expectations on the Irish lads. 2 or 3 seasons to be AFL ready. They come with a lot of talent but need a lot of developing.

The age demographic of the bulk of the top end of our list suggests we don't have loads of time to play with. Maybe the Cripps, Weitering, Curnow and McKay generation can win flags as 32-35 year olds, maybe. But I think the next 3 or 4 seasons are our prime period and after that we are probably going to be looking really hard to replace our top enders. Which is a possibility. But we also don't want to be a club that is forever rebuilding.

I think we need to draft youth but we need to go really hard at players that fit our age demographic. We aren't a young team. We are playing finals now so that means trading and free agents are really important.

If you don't try and improve you go backwards.

 

[Stefchook]

Chances of the players coming in the mid season draft being AFL quality though? I am going to suggest that none of our midseason draft picks will be on the list next season.

Boyd was a midseason draft pick.

 

[Prem17]

Is it time to admitt TDK is lost as a forward, and not smart enough to be a Ruckman who mixes up his game, not just winning the contest? Is he the missing Key Defender we've wanted since Jones didn't want the jab? His brother goes alright in the gig, TDK would be a dominant defender intercepting anything that came his way, would also be the 'defensive' ruckman whilst Harry does the job in the forward half. A much better option than trading him, although just imagine what Geelong would have to put together for that to happen. I'd expect multiple first round selections, they'd be salivating at the thought, especially how they were so exposed by the Sun's.

Maybe?
But I seriously doubt that his defensive aerial work is good enough for him to be a full time defender atm.
Yes, he does take some great aerial marks in defence but that's not what I mean.
When he's contesting in the air in the square or at the boundary line, he doesn't get a fist to the ball consistently enough.
Could also say the same for blocking in a contest to allow for someone better positioned to mark.
It could be an option but he would have to work hard on that aspect

 

[macky99]

It might be an alternative to nothing and Marchbank. You can't always go out and get what you want.

Hitting the draft hard means restarting the rebuild. We need to find players who will fill our needs for the next 3 or 4 years. Our even just two years, that gives us time and could give us a flag.

Hitting the draft hard will be great for when the window closes. I'm not sure what 18 year olds who will be AFL ready in 2-5 years will offer us in our window which is the next 3-4 years.

If we don't take risks we give ourselves 0 chance of winning one in the next 3-4 years while our window is open.

Conservative and safe means we start another rebuild.

Continuing to bringing in young talent is important, we have quite a significant number of players close to 30, if we don't continue to do that we will fall off the cliff pretty quickly in 3-4 years, nothing to do with a rebuild, it's about continuing to inject good young talent onto the list.

We can still find talent via free agency to address current list gaps.

 

[Soapy V]

Boyd was a midseason draft pick.

If you look at mid season draft over last 3-4 years there have been a lot of very good players picked up

 

[GenYBlue]

Maybe?
But I seriously doubt that his defensive aerial work is good enough for him to be a full time defender atm.
Yes, he does take some great aerial marks in defence but that's not what I mean.
When he's contesting in the air in the square or at the boundary line, he doesn't get a fist to the ball consistently enough.
Could also say the same for blocking in a contest to allow for someone better positioned to mark.
It could be an option but he would have to work hard on that aspect

He's so bad at the defensive side of the game that he'd have to develop as as a backmen in the 2s. Constantly spoils to advantage of opposition forwards.

Which may well be our best case scenario if we're persisting with Pittonett as first ruck. Harry can do resting ruck duties.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

Dead set when Pitto got the long extension, for me it demonstrated that the Club just wasn't sure how to use TDK. And I reckon it is still the case, at least Levi could on occasions kick a bag, TDK has done it once and the media were all over it, the "Saviour" was born......it's like a bloke who can hit every stick in the bag, but can't putt to save himself

 

[BlueJet]

If we weren't so hard hit by injuries he'd be playing VFL atm.
I love his best footy but there is too big a gap between his best and worst atm.

You're probably right.
I've got nothing against him but he's still very green. He's got all the tools to be a quality ruck or forward-ruck but he's just not there yet.

 

[BlueJet]

Dead set when Pitto got the long extension, for me it demonstrated that the Club just wasn't sure how to use TDK. And I reckon it is still the case, at least Levi could on occasions kick a bag, TDK has done it once and the media were all over it, the "Saviour" was born......it's like a bloke who can hit every stick in the bag, but can't putt to save himself

Perhaps, I saw it as the club thinking TDK was still too raw to handle the role full time. Pittonet as the no.1 ruck was entitled to an extension & I doubt he'd be on a significant salary so it may well have been with an expectation that TDK would surpass him & Pittonet would provide a ready to go back up, solidifying the position in the medium term.

 

[macky99]

Dead set when Pitto got the long extension, for me it demonstrated that the Club just wasn't sure how to use TDK. And I reckon it is still the case, at least Levi could on occasions kick a bag, TDK has done it once and the media were all over it, the "Saviour" was born......it's like a bloke who can hit every stick in the bag, but can't putt to save himself

Pretty sure the club would have cashed in TDK for a 1st round pick when three clubs were right into him if what you say is correct.

Pitto was given the deal as a insurance if TDK elected to leave, as unfortunately Voss is a fan of the two ruck set up, Dekoning is playing his current role because Pitto plays ruck or nothing else, unfortunately this is limiting TDk growth as a ruckman.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

He's nearly 25, when does 'raw' become 'not good enough'? Beginning to believe he's more valuable as trade bait to Geelong than staying put, There might be more upside to O'Keefee or even Mirkov (who is getting better each time I see him, the final moment at Willy aside)

 

[macky99]

He's nearly 25, when does 'raw' become 'not good enough'? Beginning to believe he's more valuable as trade bait to Geelong than staying put, There might be more upside to O'Keefee or even Mirkov (who is getting better each time I see him, the final moment at Willy aside)

l might actually agree with you, if he was playing in the ruck & not performing instead of the support act role he is currently playing, very few ruckman florish in this type of role, currently a wasted talent.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Pitto is the 2nd highest rated ruckman behind Gawn this year and has been absolutely dominant compared to years past. TDK is better around the ground but is far inferior in the ruck itself.

Main problem for me is still the smalls, 3 prong forward lines work fine and we've seen TDK become a more reliable target inside 50 but we need better kicks going inside 50 and quicker ball movement to make it work.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Would gladly trade TDK for 2 mid 1sts. There would be buyers.

Tdk could become great, but with Pitto with another 3 years, we have a developing ruck in HOK I think could be great, the impending return of JSOS and the fact he just doesn’t work up forward with Charlie and Harry, I just think it’s time.

Frees up cash and gives us a chance to either take kids in the upcoming drafts or we trade for young players that fit our current list needs.

 

[Prem17]

You're probably right.
I've got nothing against him but he's still very green. He's got all the tools to be a quality ruck or forward-ruck but he's just not there yet.

He's behind Pittonet in ruck ability and behind JSOS in 3rd forward ability.

 

[Arr0w]

A bit of premature list management going on, deep breath and let things play out before going full tilt at trading players that are still considered best 22

 

[jpfalvo]

He's nearly 25, when does 'raw' become 'not good enough'? Beginning to believe he's more valuable as trade bait to Geelong than staying put, There might be more upside to O'Keefee or even Mirkov (who is getting better each time I see him, the final moment at Willy aside)

Agreed.

I think he is perfect trade bait, this year.

Next year, he enters FA and will look for a career contract, in terms of length and cash.

On available evidence, he is not tracking inline with a Marshall or English type, they were both way ahead at same time in their careers

Looks like a slightly better Rhys Stanley type to me, at this stage.

Things can change, but he is a watch for remainder of 2024

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[HereComesJuddy]

A bit of premature list management going on, deep breath and let things play out before going full tilt at trading players that are still considered best 22

Tbh I’m done with TDK. Would command a lot in a trade though and I think we should explore this option at the end of 2024

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Would gladly trade TDK for 2 mid 1sts. There would be buyers.

Tdk could become great, but with Pitto with another 3 years, we have a developing ruck in HOK I think could be great, the impending return of JSOS and the fact he just doesn’t work up forward with Charlie and Harry, I just think it’s time.

Frees up cash and gives us a chance to either take kids in the upcoming drafts or we trade for young players that fit our current list needs.

Pitto's bash and crash style opens him up for yet another stint with the injury rehab group.
A lot of talk about Gov's frailty, but don't forget no. 27.

We need to hang onto TDK and play him where he thrives.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Slow players are hard to kick to compared to fast players. You can miss a fast player by 10m and they still get to it. You miss a slow player by 10 meters and the ball hits the ground or an opponent first. Something I learnt very early in my footy career.

Our kicking is not fabulous over the board but you do have to hit slow guys perfectly, there's a lot less margin for error compared to quicker players.

I think our lack of leg speed amplifies the kicking deficiencies in our side. Fast teams just seem to be able to make skill errors and things still come off.

Some of the good sides, you will see them knock the ball forward, accidently hit up one on ones in the middle and it comes off for them because they have the leg speed once the ball is in open space. We can't get away doing those things because we're too slow over the entire field.

Our game plan and team structure is for footy prior to 2022. The game has changed a lot since then and those teams who's lists were ready for that or have adjusted to that are the better teams. We are still outdated in structure and tactics.

Our kicking would be a lot better if our players were a lot better at making up ground and getting to it.

That is a bloody good observation, nice to see a different/new take on an old problem that makes a lot of sense

 

[Prem17]

Shopping list is getting pretty long but not impossible.

CHB. Marchbank was locked in by the coach at the end of the season and he finished off really well in the role. But is he too unreliable? Can we find a mature CHB who's good enough? Could we get a few years out of Jeremy McGovern?

Half forward and forward pocket. I reckon Hollands may have a flank locked down and Cottrell is ok. But do we have the speed and the talent there? I think Hollands will end up in the middle. I don't think Cottrell is a top level half forward flanker. Martin tends to play forward pocket and is too unreliable. Moir is miles away. Geelong were able to bring in some good half forwards easily a few years back. Can we do the same?

A couple of fast paced half forwards who can mark overhead and have a good all round game would be ideal.

The medium forward role is also an open position. Martin is too unreliable and Silvagni is coming back from a knee reco. He may not be exactly the answer.

Fast paced defensive onballer. Defensive onballers are not taggers. They are fast paced players, who chase and tackle at an elite level, can swoop on the lose ball and opposition ball carrier and are good enough offensively to play on the ball. One or two would be good. A mature one and a developing one. Hopefully we already have one or two developing.

What I want to see. Recruit two really good half forward flankers. Push Elijah Hollands into the middle of the ground and add a fast, hard tackling onballer to the group.

Retain Marchbank if he gets through the season but also recruit a player who can play that CHB role. Maybe we take a punt on Jeremy McGovern. I think taking risks is something we simply must do. If there is a better option out there then fine, go for it.

Push Kemp to the wing. Put all his preseason into developing him as a wingman.

A medium forward. Someone fast, good on the ground and good in the air. Not sure who but we need to have a really good look around.


Boyd Weitering McGovern
Saad (Marchbank or new player) Williams
Kemp Cripps Acres
NEW PLAYER Curnow NEW PLAYER
Motlop McKay NEW PLAYER
TDK Walsh Cerra
Newman (E Hollands as a mid) (NEW MID) Docherty

Depth: Silvagni Cowan Hollands Kennedy Hewett Fogarty Fantasia Durdin Durdin Martin Binns Pittonet Cuningham Wilson Cincotta Cottrell Moir Owies

Trade from the depth field if possibly. Those not listed likely delisted.

This is what we need to do to 1, improve the side to premier contendere and 2, bring the side into the modern era of being a better pressure side around the ball and being a more outside and effective team on the outside.

McGovern just tore Melbourne a new one with his intercept marking and precision kicking.
One kick in of note nailed a player by the centre square.
How do you recruit a 32yo though?
To get him across the country you'd have to offer a 2 year deal. That's a big risk with his injury history. Still, he really rewound the clock today, and against quality opposition.
Another one from today's game that would be handy is Liam Ryan.
Not big stats, 11 disposals/ 2 goals but his speed and tackle pressure was good. Almost took the greatest mark in the history of the game over Gawn.
Under contract until end of '26 and a history of hammies so another risky trade but you have to weigh up risk vs reward.

As for us trading out one of Kennedy or Hewitt, maybe Kennedy has shown his versatility this year with roles forward and back when not playing midfield.
If we do go for the trade option though you have to offer quality to get quality.
The trade down mentally has gotta go.

 

[bradfisher14]

A bit of premature list management going on, deep breath and let things play out before going full tilt at trading players that are still considered best 22

Agree, but I do think we have a decent enough sample size now to have a meaningful discussion. Probably best to have those discussions after the sting of a bad loss has subsided though.

 

[Arr0w]

Tbh I’m done with TDK. Would command a lot in a trade though and I think we should explore this option at the end of 2024

I get that many might be frustrated with the likes of TDK, but we also know development isn't linear and especially youngish giraffe like ruckmen

I wouldn't be putting him up for a trade just yet, but you always listen to the market

Agree, but I do think we have a decent enough sample size now to have a meaningful discussion.

Absolutely, those discussions should always be ongoing

Probably best to have those discussions after the sting of a bad loss has subsided though.

Very much so. Emotive list management clouds reality