Autopsy 3 things you learnt v Hawks

[disgruntled goat]

I doubt that very much. This thread is a total knee jerk reaction.

I have advised caution and maintained optimism/faith through some bad times, including during 2012 when I was as optimistic of a premiership then as you seem to be this year ... but what I saw Saturday night, not just the result but the manner of it, has me fearing not just for this year but for the next few ... our defence is in trouble (although the criticism and fury aimed at Ted Richards has been shameful on this board), ruck is now a real problem and the forwards (excluding Franklin) are inconsistent at best, we have several older players who are barely shadows of what they were up to a couple of years ago and several of our much-vaunted younger "depth" players have been exposed as either not ready yet for regular senior footy, or not good enough.

 

[Jos37]

1.Trade Tippett to Brisbane for leuenberger
2.Play Heeney
3.Get Yarren

 

[robbieando]

1.Trade Tippett to Brisbane for leuenberger
2.Play Heeney
3.Get Yarren

Both players are on more than 340k a year. We won't be getting them. Aim lower

 

[bungwahl]

I have advised caution and maintained optimism/faith through some bad times, including during 2012 when I was as optimistic of a premiership then as you seem to be this year ... but what I saw Saturday night, not just the result but the manner of it, has me fearing not just for this year but for the next few ... our defence is in trouble (although the criticism and fury aimed at Ted Richards has been shameful on this board), ruck is now a real problem and the forwards (excluding Franklin) are inconsistent at best, we have several older players who are barely shadows of what they were up to a couple of years ago and several of our much-vaunted younger "depth" players have been exposed as either not ready yet for regular senior footy, or not good enough.

I think you're completing misreading what I've been trying to say. I never said Sydney would win the premiership this year.

On current form, suggesting any club other than Hawthorn will win the flag is madness. However, as I said, 8 weeks is a long time in footy. 8 weeks ago Hawthorn were mid table, Freo were unbeatable, Richmond were a shambles and everyone was waiting for Port Adelaide to start dominating.

Whether you agree with it or not, Sydney has a strong list. Yes - we've been hurt by the inability to trade, particularly as it came at the time when we desperately needed mature aged backup in key positions. That's the AFL being a #$*&, but there's nothing we can do about that.

Suggesting Sydney is not good enough to make the top 8 is extremely negative.

 

[disgruntled goat]

I think you're completing misreading what I've been trying to say. I never said Sydney would win the premiership this year.

On current form, suggesting any club other than Hawthorn will win the flag is madness. However, as I said, 8 weeks is a long time in footy. 8 weeks ago Hawthorn were mid table, Freo were unbeatable, Richmond were a shambles and everyone was waiting for Port Adelaide to start dominating.

Whether you agree with it or not, Sydney has a strong list. Yes - we've been hurt by the inability to trade, particularly as it came at the time when we desperately needed mature aged backup in key positions. That's the AFL being a #$*&, but there's nothing we can do about that.

Suggesting Sydney is not good enough to make the top 8 is extremely negative.

And I'm saying it's got phaark-all to do with negativity ... I'm saying that based on what I've watched of Sydney the past month, ending with that woeful crud on Saturday night, I think it's a stretch putting us in the top eight sides right now.

Tell me when the Swans last looked like a top eight side? What game?

 

[alanlau34]

And I'm saying it's got phaark-all to do with negativity ... I'm saying that based on what I've watched of Sydney the past month, ending with that woeful crud on Saturday night, I think it's a stretch putting us in the top eight sides right now.

Tell me when the Swans last looked like a top eight side? What game?

This doesn't make any sense. We are winning the games that we should be winning, Doggies probably the only one that we really threw away.

To get away from the bear, you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to be better than 10 other teams. As crap as we have been, we haven't been as crap as many other teams.

 

[bungwahl]

And I'm saying it's got phaark-all to do with negativity ... I'm saying that based on what I've watched of Sydney the past month, ending with that woeful crud on Saturday night, I think it's a stretch putting us in the top eight sides right now.

Tell me when the Swans last looked like a top eight side? What game?

Beating a desperate Port in round 14 certainly looked like a top 8 side. Might not have made us look like unbeatable premiers, but hard to suggest it was the performance of a bottom ten side.

We've certainly tapered off in form after the bye which is worrying, but we're still comfortably a top 8 side. To suggest we're outside that mark means you're saying four of these guys are clearly better than us: Bulldogs, Giants, Crows, Pies, Kangaroos, Cats, Port, Saints, Bombers, etc. We can safely rule out Saints, Bombers and Port which leaves six sides. I can't see Cats or Kangaroos being clearly better than us. Collingwood have lost four in a row, Crows, Dogs and Giants have looked OK in patches but inconsistent.

If you were arguing that Sydney is not a top 4 side it might be reasonable. Saying we're not top 8 is just negative nancy territory.

 

[disgruntled goat]

Beating a desperate Port in round 14 certainly looked like a top 8 side. Might not have made us look like unbeatable premiers, but hard to suggest it was the performance of a bottom ten side.

We've certainly tapered off in form after the bye which is worrying, but we're still comfortably a top 8 side. To suggest we're outside that mark means you're saying four of these guys are clearly better than us: Bulldogs, Giants, Crows, Pies, Kangaroos, Cats, Port, Saints, Bombers, etc. We can safely rule out Saints, Bombers and Port which leaves six sides. I can't see Cats or Kangaroos being clearly better than us. Collingwood have lost four in a row, Crows, Dogs and Giants have looked OK in patches but inconsistent.

If you were arguing that Sydney is not a top 4 side it might be reasonable. Saying we're not top 8 is just negative nancy territory.

Citing a win over Port isn't really a strong argument at the moment.

And yes, right now I'd argue we're behind the Pies, Giants, Cats, Dogs and Crows based on the past few weeks. What you say about Crows, Dogs and Giants ... "looked okay in patches but inconsistent" ... pretty much describes the Swans, except we haven't even been "okay" recently.

 

[disgruntled goat]

This doesn't make any sense. We are winning the games that we should be winning, Doggies probably the only one that we really threw away.

To get away from the bear, you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to be better than 10 other teams. As crap as we have been, we haven't been as crap as many other teams.

And that is NOT an argument that would foster much encouragement/optimism for the season ... good grief, I expect more from you as a poster. That's a terrible argument.

 

[bungwahl]

Citing a win over Port isn't really a strong argument at the moment.

And yes, right now I'd argue we're behind the Pies, Giants, Cats, Dogs and Crows based on the past few weeks. What you say about Crows, Dogs and Giants ... "looked okay in patches but inconsistent" ... pretty much describes the Swans, except we haven't even been "okay" recently.

The Pies haven't won a game in that time, yet we're behind them?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

The Pies haven't won a game in that time, yet we're behind them?

Their form has been a lot better than us regardless they took it right up to Hawthorn infact kicked themselves out of it.

 

[bungwahl]

Their form has been a lot better than us regardless they took it right up to Hawthorn infact kicked themselves out of it.

We butchered our way out of the Tigers game, then beat Port and Lions, before getting walloped by the hottest team in the comp. I'd argue that is better than 4 straight losses.

 

[alanlau34]

And that is NOT an argument that would foster much encouragement/optimism for the season ... good grief, I expect more from you as a poster. That's a terrible argument.

Personally I think that we'll still make the 4. I was just responding that despite not playing like a top 8 team, we are racking up enough ugly wins to stay ahead of the pack.

 

[MarkP]

They get a game when they a ready, not just because they are young and supporters want mass changes after every loss. When they are ready is the question and a much harder one to make when they only play in a comp that is equivalent to country football. The beauty of the Swans selection policy has been to pick the best 22 available every week. They don't try players for the sake of trying them. Having said that, we have blooded plenty of young players over the last 3 years and many more will get their chance when they are ready. Unlike clubs that haven't been playing finals and can send players off for early surgery, Sydney have been in finals contention for a long time and don't have that luxury.

I am one that called for changes constantly.

But not to personnel - at least not wholesale. Smaller forward line would be nice for one.

As I keep banging on, the players are doing exactly what is asked of them, hence we don't use many different guys or drop them on performance.

It is what they are asked to do which is the problem, and one which is unfixable, given current management being what could be called a tad stubborn and set in their ways.

It is not the cattle, the list is superb, it is all about how they are being asked to play.

 

[Punts]

89 points is not just a loss its a farking shamble , we are playing shit footy and some need to face the facts

 

[AimingforNo6]

when Richards goes clean for 200 odd games and than makes a crude hit on Mitchell than something is up - either age, form or injury or a combination. They are playing him because they looked in the two's and said they are not up to it - (as yet) - might be time to see what they've got eg. Abe Davis to get call up is my guess.....makes more sense than picking B Jack for Hawks after along time out of the seniors...sort of close to career sabotage from the coaches that selection....

 

[The King!]

Trade tippett for 300k cash

 

[MickyG]

We butchered our way out of the Tigers game, then beat Port and Lions, before getting walloped by the hottest team in the comp. I'd argue that is better than 4 straight losses.

Pies have lost to Freo, Hawks, Port and Eagles. Dumb coaching cost them the Port game (playing too many talls in the wet). After this weekend I think we will have lost to 3 of those sides. Our first game against Port was our best game of the season but the second one was unconvincing and remember they are well out of the 8. If something doesn't change in the next few weeks we will lose to the Pies in 4 weeks time and Richmond may replace us in the top 4. Given they beat us at home this is probably appropriate. Also note that the Pies now have a very similar percentage to us. I doubt if we are better than the Pies! Ouch, that hurt.

 

[disgruntled goat]

The Pies haven't won a game in that time, yet we're behind them?

they've played a lot better than we have ... no matter; we'll be playing them soon enough, we'll see

 

[MickyG]

Last week I rated our chances at only 20 - 80 and was called a negative nelly for doing so! Boy was I optimistic or what? I think I'll stick with those chances for this week. I think I'm being realistic. There's a one in five chance of us coming out strong in response to the pathetic effort on Saturday but there's a four in five chance they will run over the top of us.

 

[The King!]

Watching replay

Two things

Our leading is terrible, people dont spread at all. Buddy can lead and call and our mids hold it up forever and kick too him when he is stationery more often than acknowledging a good lead


Our mids first instinct is to go sideways or back, often not even looking forward at all

Edit make it 3

We crowd stoppages, often one or more numbers than the hawks had, yet even if we win the clearance they then have one spare back and zoom off kill us on overlap

 

[disgruntled goat]

89 points is not just a loss its a farking shamble , we are playing shit footy and some need to face the facts

Indeed.

 

[Sunners]

1. Kurt Tippett is a flat track bully. He's handy well when we're on top but is not a game changer
2. Bad feelings you have the week before may not be wrong. (I was at Brisbane the week before saw us struggle then feared for this game when I saw the final score of Hawks v Freo on a TV screen at the Gabba)
3. When Hawthorn play at their best they're almost impossible to stop.

 

[RW]

Watching replay

Why?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Why?

You get a different perspective well at least i do.