457 Visa's gone

[kwikfix]

Huh? How many cans have you downed today?

just re read your posts.... I may have shirt fronted a team mate. Actually just cracked my 8th.

 

[Dry Rot]

It looks like you are racist towards "whites" Nothing worse than a self loathing "white" apologist.

Your comprehension skills decline with every post.

 

[medusala]

The radio has been interesting today with various chairmen of commerce groups talking about how hard done by they will be if they can't get at overseas workers, I love hearing all the groups shake out and plead their case - it is very interesting when you a as cynical as I am.

They are full of it. Mass immigration holds zero benefit for Australia but still its foisted upon the country for two simple reasons. Big business gets cheap labour and the ALP gets the ethnic vote.

Can understand if you mention hairdressers, cooks, beauty salon managers and such and can agree that those areas are more than dubious.

Occupations such as the ones you mentioned previously were counted (may still do?) as "skilled" labour re visas. The system has long been a sham

What is the point of the union movement if they dont tell the ALP to put an end to this?

"oh we cant find any workers though"

What happens when a product is scarce and demand is high????

 

[Maggie5]

They are full of it. Mass immigration holds zero benefit for Australia but still its foisted upon the country for two simple reasons. Big business gets cheap labour and the ALP gets the ethnic vote.



Occupations such as the ones you mentioned previously were counted (may still do?) as "skilled" labour re visas. The system has long been a sham

What is the point of the union movement if they dont tell the ALP to put an end to this?

"oh we cant find any workers though"

What happens when a product is scarce and demand is high????

Unions have been doing that, but you do realise that Labor are not in government don't you?
Plus they did try to change elegibility and not only did the Libs scrap the changes but they conducted a sham enquiry that made it even easier for those so called 'skilled' area shortages. One area was, language.
As I said this mob are a bunch of hypocrites! Jobs and Growth indeed!

 

[Maggie5]

For those of you that are interested in a bit more background on the issues regarding 457 visas, the following links might be of use:

For Labor, the most desirable option for recognising skill shortages is employer-conducted labour market testing. Their Bill proposes that employers advertise for the occupation in which they seek to sponsor an overseas worker. Once an employer can prove that their recruitment efforts have been in vain because no suitable candidates have applied, the employer can make an application to sponsor a 457 visa worker to the department.
For the Liberals, the status quo suffices. They argue that the current 457 visa system is working well, with rorts occurring on a very limited basis and that there should be as little constraint as possible on an employer seeking to sponsor a 457 visa worker.
http://www.mondaq.com/australia/x/3...to+457+employer+sponsorship+since+1+July+2013

The Abbott government has quietly reopened a visa loophole that will allow employers to hire an unlimited number of foreign workers under temporary working visas, in a move that unions say will return widespread rorting of the system.

In 2014 the Assistant Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, Senator the Hon Michaelia Cash, announced an independent review of the temporary work (skilled) visa (Subclass 457) programme.

As a result of this review, the requirement for proficient in English was changed to min of band 5. (lowest is 4)

The IELTS band scale describes a test taker who achieves an IELTS Band score of 5.0 as a ‘Modest user’. People with this English language ability have a partial command of thelanguage,coping with overall meaning in most situations, though is likely to make many mistakes. They are able to handle basic communication in their own field.
For visa purposes, a person who achieves an IELTS score of 5.0 in each of the four components of reading, writing, speaking and listening has demonstrated an ability of Vocational English.

Just another political football, blame game and more spin.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Also worth noting in terms of businesses apparently not being able to find local workers, is that some businesses apparently employed two foreigners, instead of one local, so they wouldn't be considered a part of the Australian tax system. Hypothetically, I could also see an Australian basing themselves overseas (like SE Asia, as many do) in order to avoid paying tax here.

The AFR summarised the way it works here:

Under the test, if an overseas worker is in Australia for more than 183 days a year they are generally considered a resident for income tax purposes.
According to a report in The West Australian, Diamond Offshore has been keeping a record of how long its overseas employees, mostly Americans on subclass 457 visas, have been in Australia each year so it can run a roster that ensures the employees do not exceed the ATO's limit... While the action does not appear to violate any law, Mr Cain said it was appalling Diamond was using 457 visa workers at a time when there were plenty of skilled Australian workers looking for employment in the industry.

 

[Reynolds Number]

Engineers Australia CEO dislikes this.

 

[Northalives]

In 2013, Gillard wanted to change the "out of control" 457 visa system because mining companies and associated industries, as well as others, were using 457 visas purely and simply to get cheap labour and to undermine the wages and conditions of Australian workers. Would Abbott, Turnbull etc have a bar of this? No f*****g way!!

The Business Council of Australia, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the Minerals Council of Australia and their mouthpieces, the Liberal National Parties were outraged at what the Gillard Labor government wanted to do: the Torries called it xenophobia !

In 2015, the Abbott government said that a "review" of the 457 visa program did not reveal the widespread rorting claimed by the previous government (Gillards') and therefore, it would "reduce regulation".

Now, in 2017, here we have a LNP Government saying that it will abolish the 457 visas and replace them with 2 new visa categories and that there will be "mandatory labour market testing, unless an international obligation applies".

This "change", is a quickly cobbled together "initiative" for Malcolm to appease the right wing morons both within and outside his party. There was no consultation whatsoever and food processors, tourism operators, trainers and horse breeding operations, meat processors, farming communities, etc etc etc etc etc are freaking out at what may happen but that doesn't matter, so long as the racists and xenophobes think that Turnbull is standing up for Australia oi oi oi !

In the horse racing industry, there are nowhere near enough local people to fill critical positions. Out in the country areas, in the regional areas, farmers and the like can't get people to work at any time of the year let alone harvest time but the knuckle-draggers like Hanson, Bernardi, Abbott must be appeased because Malcolm's job depends on it.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Just looked at the list of occupations, one (number 36) is Dancers.

So no exotic imported pole dancers then.

Sad.

 

[Northalives]

Just looked at the list of occupations, one (number 36) is Dancers.

So no exotic imported pole dancers then.

Sad.

I love Polish dancers !

 

[Rear Admiral]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-18/government-abolishing-457-visas/8450310



Opinions? They definitely needed a new system, The negativity attached to 457 was too hard to wash

Cautiously optimistic, However I haven't seen any detail and if the government doesn't do anything for education and training this will just be just a new band aid over a huge problem in terms of job training in Australia in terms of encouraging businesses to train skilled young Australians

Doesn't help some of the decisions made 15-20 years ago have created a lot of skill shortages.

In practical terms, what's happening with our current Immigration and Foreign Visa Worker policies is an absolute joke. Irrespective of what the actual policies stipulate, the fact of the matter is that countless numbers of Australian businesses are bypassing Australian Citizens and importing cheap labour in their thousands. And this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Boat People....it's the "Tarmac Invasion" that I'm referring to.

Now when considering all this, there definitely are specific positions where we do lack the skills and need to bring in foreign workers urgently. A perfect example of this are jobs that require multilingual applicants. But the sort of numbers of foreign workers we're bringing in is up through the stratosphere, in comparison to the real number of positions that cannot be filled with Australian workers. Added to this, many racists/bigots/Islamophobes are trying to use this issue as a platform to spew forth their vile, demented filth against pretty much anyone who isn't white, and particularly those of Islamic Faith and/or Middle Eastern appearance. There are many idiots out there that want those they see as "un-Australian" (read: all Muslims/Middle Eastern migrants) deported, locked up, or shot. And this is no exaggeration. These idiots that spew this vile filth need to be shown up for the demented idiots they truly are.

But the problem still remains that our current Immigration and Foreign Visa Worker policies are an absolute rort like no other. What this journo says here hits the nail right on the head and cannot be disputed:

Link

Link

The list of articles on what this bloke mentioned above is a million miles long, yet the Libs/Nats are helping businesses bypass Aussie workers in their thousands. Ignore the name/title of the above videos and just listen to what this journo has to say....but people can't. As soon as most people see the name and title of these videos, they just roll their eyes and think eccentric/idiot/racist, when they truly have no idea. There are three extremes in this issue -

• The bigots and Islamophobes, typically on the far-Right. They simply want the reintroduction of a White Australia Policy, where Muslims and people from the Middle East are locked fairly and squarely in their Crosshairs.
• Another group that goes berserk and starts blindly screaming "racism" whenever they hear any attempt at a rational debate on Immigration and our Foreign Visa Worker policies. Yes, absolutely, racism is a huge issue and one that must be tackled, but this is not what this debate is about.
• The other group is the business community, and at a very fundamental level, they just want to hire any person at any rate and any conditions, no questions asked. And God help anyone that stands in their way.

Unfortunately, these are the idiots that get the most press, where the third group have the most sway.

The problem with this issue is not enough people mobilise and send emails/petitions. Some do, sure, but nowhere near enough. But if there's one thing that most Aussies will get up and do something about, and that's to defend their apathy and laziness in regards to actually doing something about important issues. On defending their apathy/laziness, most Aussies will fight tooth and nail. If the Government were to introduce some sort of "Apathy Tax", they'd have more money than they knew what to do with.

 

[Rear Admiral]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-18/government-abolishing-457-visas/8450310



Opinions? They definitely needed a new system, The negativity attached to 457 was too hard to wash

Cautiously optimistic, However I haven't seen any detail and if the government doesn't do anything for education and training this will just be just a new band aid over a huge problem in terms of job training in Australia in terms of encouraging businesses to train skilled young Australians

Doesn't help some of the decisions made 15-20 years ago have created a lot of skill shortages.

Attempted to discuss this matter here.

I know there are those out there that wish to dispute what I've said, but there's more evidence and discussions out there supporting what I've said than I could poke a stick at. People that want to argue the case....just makes themselves look (even more) foolish.

 

[medusala]

Unions have been doing that, but you do realise that Labor are not in government don't you?

The ALP LOVES mass immigration.

Importing voters.

So much for giving a stuff about the poor people they are meant to represent.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

The ALP LOVES mass immigration.

Importing voters.

So much for giving a stuff about the poor people they are meant to represent.

You're still trying to work out if you're an anti-immigrant using the economy as an excuse, or a greedy lower-my-tax type using immigration as an excuse. Just accept the fact business loves immigration and Howard loved immigration.

 

[medusala]

You're still trying to work out if you're an anti-immigrant using the economy as an excuse, or a greedy lower-my-tax type using immigration as an excuse. Just accept the fact business loves immigration and Howard loved immigration.

Lower my tax? Mass immigration doesnt lower taxes. Sure business loves mass migration as it cuts wages. Thats why the ALP and Libs both go for it, despite it clearly not being good for the country and being particularly bad for the lowest paid.

Its hardly rocket science. Howard doesnt get a free pass on it, even if he cut back on the worst immigration ie family reunion and shifted a bit towards so called skilled migration.

If you are going to criticise 457 visas then lets do the honest and rational thing and called for family reunion visas to be dramatically scaled back to.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Lower my tax? Mass immigration doesnt lower taxes. Sure business loves mass migration as it cuts wages. Thats why the ALP and Libs both go for it, despite it clearly not being good for the country and being particularly bad for the lowest paid.

Its hardly rocket science. Howard doesnt get a free pass on it, even if he cut back on the worst immigration ie family reunion and shifted a bit towards so called skilled migration.

If you are going to criticise 457 visas then lets do the honest and rational thing and called for family reunion visas to be dramatically scaled back to.

So I take it that the above sidestep means you want lower taxes and less immigration. Pro-business one second; anti-business the next. It's almost like you're entirely selfish?

 

[CakeEater]

TBF, this visa change has achieved 2/5 of bugger all.

Its scrapped some meaningless roles, but companies can still get temporary visas through for a majority of roles.

Its also mutton dressed as lamb, which is exactly how governments of all persuasions operate.

 

[medusala]

So I take it that the above sidestep means you want lower taxes and less immigration. Pro-business one second; anti-business the next. It's almost like you're entirely selfish?

Give it up Ratts. Anti business? So anyone who opposes monopolies is anti business?

Go and read Wealth of Nations and stop playing the balatron.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Give it up Ratts. Anti business? So anyone who opposes monopolies is anti business?

Go and read Wealth of Nations and stop playing the balatron.

I'll give up pointing out your hypocrisy once you acknowledge and explain it. You know business loves immigration. But you hate having to think hard.