7 More Sins

[blackdiamond]

I see that the Vatican has put together 7 social sins to add to the deadly ones, so I guess the path to heaven is a bit more difficult now.

Have a look and see how you fair, will you make it?

The seven social sins are:
1. ``Bioethical' violations such as birth control
2. ``Morally dubious'' experiments such as stem cell research
3. Drug abuse
4. Polluting the environment
5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor
6. Excessive wealth
7. Creating poverty

The original deadly sins:
1. Pride
2. Envy
3. Gluttony
4. Lust
5. Anger
6. Greed
7. Sloth

 

[Toots Hibbert]

I like number 6. Excessive wealth. Maybe the Vatican would like to sell it's treasures and use them to help bridge the "widening divide" between rich and poor.

 

[Portia]

Yeah, number 6 is a funny one.

 

[MP_]

thank god i'm an atheist

 

[Burningleviathan]

isn't excessive wealth covered by Greed? even gluttony could cover it.

 

[Sandola]

I wasn't going to get in under the old rules, so it's all just piling on as far as I'm concerned. They do seem to be getting more (overtly) political by the minute, though.

 

[sabby]

Pollution is a bit dodgy if you have to confess your sins then you would have to confess every time you turn on a light switch, drive your car, or basically do anything that used power

 

[Ford Fairlane]

This is more a misrepresentation by the media than anything. Archishop Gianfranco Girotti gave an interview to L'Osservatore Romano, with the main message being an appeal to Catholics to return to confession. When asked by the journalist what the Archbishop thought were new sins in the modern era, he named a selection that was then turned into a new seven deadly sins in media reporting.

Littering Not New "Deadly Sin," Bishops Clarify

LONDON, MARCH 11, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Reports that the Vatican has published a new list of the seven deadly sins of modern times that includes littering and economic inequality is simply not true, affirmed the episcopal conference of England and Wales.

The conference released a statement today clarifying that an interview published Sunday by L'Osservatore Romano with Bishop Gianfranco Girotti, regent of the tribunal of he Apostolic Penitentiary, was misinterpreted in the media as an official Vatican update to the seven deadly sins, laid out by Pope Gregory the Great in the sixth century.

"The Vatican has not published a new list of seven deadly sins; this is not a new Vatican edict," said the conference. "The story originated from an interview that Bishop Gianfranco Girotti gave to the L'Osservatore Romano in which he was questioned about new forms of social sins in this age of globalization."

The Vatican newspaper interviewed the bishop at the conclusion of a course that took place last week on the "internal forum" -- questions of conscience -- organized by the tribunal of the Apostolic Penitentiary to strengthen the training of priests in administering the sacrament of confession.

In the interview titled "Le Nuove Forme del Peccato Sociale" (The New Forms of Social Sin), journalist Nicola Gori asked the prelate what he thought are the new sins of the modern era.

Bishop Girotti responded: "There are various areas in which today we can see sinful attitudes in relation to individual and social rights.

"Above all in the area of bioethics, in which we cannot fail to denounce certain violations of the fundamental rights of human nature, by way of experiments, genetic manipulation, the effects of which are difficult to prevent and control."

"Another area, a social issue, is the issue of drug use, which debilitates the psyche and darkens the intelligence, leaving many youth outside the ecclesial circuit."

The bishop also mentioned social inequality, "by which the poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer, feeding an unsustainable social injustice," and the "area of ecology."

 

[Toots Hibbert]

I don't care Ford.

I recently read a book about the life of King David. It was written by a biblical scholar and based on the evidence of the bible. For a guy who was beloved of God my goodness gracious me he did carry on just a tad! In fact he was clearly a sociopath.

He had a harem with from memory 7 wives. He seduced one of his commander's wives then arranged for him to be killed on the battlefield. He had homosexual affairs. He turned a blind eye while his oldest son by one wife r*ped his half sister (David's daughter by another wife). Years later when it suited his purpose he forgave one of his other sons (this daughter's full brother) who had taken revenge on the rapist and killed him. Against all the laws of the Jews he consulted with witches. Prior to becoming king he had spent time as a bandit as well as fighting alongside the enemies of Israel the Hittites.

The biblical sources for this information were either writing during David's reign or that of his son Solomon so are very reputable. Later sources in the bible tried to rewrite this history but never succeeded in covering it up. This is the guy who is revered by Jews and Chistians alike.

In fact David's predecessor as king had been instructed by God's prophet to carry out genocide against a neighbouring tribe and lost god's favour because he had not fully carried out this order. All very edifying. Not.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Your point on whether the Vatican had in fact released a modern list of deadly sins being ... ?

 

[Toots Hibbert]

I don't have one. The caravan's moved on.

 

[portentous]

They should add-wearing long shorts, socks and sandals together
and driving 20kms under the speed limit while in the right hand lane!

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I can't believe supporting the crows didn't get a mention.

 

[portentous]

I can't believe supporting the crows didn't get a mention.

Thought about it, but I'd love to continue abusing them when I get upstairs!

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Thought about it, but I'd love to continue abusing them when I get upstairs!

time and space is a mortal concept, I'm sure you can moon them through the two way mirror.

 

[spookism]

That makes me a solid 8/14... wonder where that puts me in the sceme of things...

 

[dreamkillers]

That makes me a solid 8/14... wonder where that puts me in the sceme of things...

Probably just under the average mark that has moved up a little over the last few decades...........

 

[blackdiamond]

1. ``Bioethical' violations such as birth control

So they are saying here that guys shouldn't wear condoms, girls shouldn't take the pill. Lets just populate the world, its okay. That should save the world from pollution and poverty! That works well in 3rd world countries, not! Or are they trying to tell us not to have sex unless we are trying to populate? Sex is good so bugger that!

2. ``Morally dubious'' experiments such as stem cell research

Since all research is controlled by ethics committees the definition of dubious requires further clarification. Public education on this would also be a good thing as some groups like the Vatican portray stem cell research through the media incorrectly. Its a bad case of chinese whispers, by the time the average person reads about it in the paper it ends up sounding like the most evil thing but in all honesty its completely the opposite.

3. Drug abuse

I agree with this one but what are they doing about it?

4. Polluting the environment

Im with sabby on this one, must be some better clarification on this. If anyone passes this test they must be full of it, hell don't break wind! I wonder what the Pope-mobile runs on?

5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor

I wonder if the Vatican pays taxes on anything, really this should be a government sin not a public one.

6. Excessive wealth

Can't go past what Toots had to say.

7. Creating poverty

Government sin mostly but there is a lot that contributes to poverty, it can even be self inflicted. All in all the Vatican have a lot to say but little answers.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I know I'm going to come across as an apologist for the Church which I find kind of laughable, but really, I can't stand this kind of sensational, sloppy British tabloid/National Enquirer reporting that stirs up controversy where none should exist. I'd equate it to Mark Williams saying "I think there are aspects of Matthew Lobbe's game that need improving" being reported as "Williams announces his entire squad of young players is crap". It's just hyperbole.

It would probably be instructive to read the Archbishop's translated interview. That can be found here.

As far as I can tell, the so-called new seven social sins are drawn from this response:

In your opinion, what are the “new sins”?

There are various areas today in which we adopt sinful behavior, as with individual and social rights. This is especially so in the field of bioethics where we cannot deny the existence of violations of fundamental rights of human nature – this occurs by way of experiments and genetic modifications, whose results we cannot easily predict or control.

Another area, which indeed pertains to the social spectrum, is that of drug use, which weakens our minds and reduces our intelligence. As a result, many young people are left out of Church circles. Here’s another one: social and economic inequality, in the sense that the rich always seem to get richer, and the poor, poorer. This [phenomenon] feeds off an unsustainable form of social injustice and is related to environmental issues –which
currently have much relevant interest.

The only reference to birth control I can see in the entire interview is the Church's stand against abortion. And the pollution component seems to be a long bow drawn on the reference to environmental issues relating to social inequality. That can be broadly interpreted.

But among that range of 'sinful' areas, there are concepts that should be of concern, be it forms of experimental genetic modification (not the entire field, but certainly aspects), drug use/abuse, social and economic inequality.

It's easy to say what is the Church doing, and it's certainly easy to fire off broadsides at the sinful behaviour of the monolithic organisation and an element of its followers/clergy, but it's also worth looking at the work done by good people in all of the broadly Christian (which includes the specific Catholic) not for profit organisations worldwide that work to address social inequalities. St Vincent de Paul Society would be a good starting point.

 

[sabby]

6. Excessive wealth

This isn’t that bad, a lot of people with excessive wealth use that money and donate to charity and help fund cancer/AIDS research. Bill Gates created his own AIDS research foundation. His foundation has donated 500,000,000 to curing AIDS. If that is a sin then we are all going to hell

 

[Black 18]

Fords on the right track here IMO.

The most sinful of sinners in our current world are most media agencies. What they are prepared to do, how much they are prepared to bend the truth in search of a story is amazing. And it's allowed to go on and on and on without anyone ever being held truly accountable for their actions.

You only have to look at the Fox led media reporting on the Iraq war to see what people are prepared to do just to get ratings. Shameful.

Even in our own backyard, Today Tonight, incredible what they will do to get a headline.

I think in this day and age it really does pay to do a little research yourself, and stay away from mainstream media to get any sort of "fair" reporting on anything at all basically.

The scariest thing about the impact the media have on people in general is that many, many people take everything they say as the TOTAL truth. That to me is the scariest thing going about.

 

[morell]

WTF on #6!

The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment.

The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence.

http://www.cephasministry.com/catholic_vaticans_billions_1.html

 

[tribey]

Haha yep.

Was discussing this with a mate the other day.

I believe my call was, "if the Church donated just 10% of its accumulated wealth it could turn Africa into Paralowie at least".

I'm a card.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

How do we deal with you?

 

[Sandola]

Play it as it lays. Yup.