A little help/Advice...

[saj_21]

Hoping to draw on all the expertise of the big footy faithful here;

Where to start. Basically i have worked very hard over the last 6 months to get back into shape and i am hoping to get some feedback on how to take my training and results to the next level;

A bit about myself;
After enjoying the "finer" things in life the last couple of years and realised i was overweight and out of shape. I have dropped from 86.5 kg in September last year to 76.5 kg by christmas and have since gone back to around 80-81kg but this was my aim to lift heavy and put on some weight before footy season. Im 26, 81 kg 5'10,

Training;
I train 3 x times a week -Mon/Wed/ Fri k 45-60 mins. Day 1 - split legs/shoulders Day 2 Chest/triceps Day 3 Back/biceps
Tuesday/Thursday footy training which is anywhere from 1 -2 hours.

Goals;
The holy grail really, I want to maintain a weight of 80kg, continue to get stronger, and drop body fat.

Questions i have;
Diet and Nutrition - As i am training 5 days a week, should eat more calories on lifting days or after footy training? Should i eat more carbs or protein on lifting days or after footy training?

I have read a fair few articles online and the consensus seems to be to eat more carbs on lifting days, but most of this is based on people of lift and have very minial cardio work outs.

Basically what should i eat and when? to optimise results.

 

[showdownhero]

You should be eating plenty of carbs on day that you're active, the body needs it to fuel your muscles energy expenditure.

If fat loss is your goal you need to start counting calories and macros. You want to be getting around 200g of protein everyday and around 200g of carbs on days that you're active (footy or weights).

Losing fat is going to be a little bit difficult if you're playing footy though. Due to the physical nature of the sport, you should really be hitting maintenance calories for your body to repair itself from the rigours of physical contact and muscle damage from the aerobic and anaerobic actions carried out during a game. Basically, trying to lose fat will seriously mess up your recovery and it may be best to wait until the off season before you attempt fat loss.

 

[saj_21]

You should be eating plenty of carbs on day that you're active, the body needs it to fuel your muscles energy expenditure.

If fat loss is your goal you need to start counting calories and macros. You want to be getting around 200g of protein everyday and around 200g of carbs on days that you're active (footy or weights).

Losing fat is going to be a little bit difficult if you're playing footy though. Due to the physical nature of the sport, you should really be hitting maintenance calories for your body to repair itself from the rigours of physical contact and muscle damage from the aerobic and anaerobic actions carried out during a game. Basically, trying to lose fat will seriously mess up your recovery and it may be best to wait until the off season before you attempt fat loss.

Thanks, i am on a mostly paleo diet. As i found gluten, diary, wheat etc was bloating my body i generally didn't fell well after eating those foods. Tried to minimise sugar, cut out soft drinks and junk food. So i rely on getting carbs from veggies. I do eat a gluten/wheat free pasta twice a week after footy training.

I see about losing body fat, i only play reserves at local level so nothing to full on but i take on your points mentioned. I guess if i can maintain during the season, maybe even lose a little if it doesn't affect recovery etc then really work hard during the off season.

 

[showdownhero]

Thanks, i am on a mostly paleo diet. As i found gluten, diary, wheat etc was bloating my body i generally didn't fell well after eating those foods. Tried to minimise sugar, cut out soft drinks and junk food. So i rely on getting carbs from veggies. I do eat a gluten/wheat free pasta twice a week after footy training.

I see about losing body fat, i only play reserves at local level so nothing to full on but i take on your points mentioned. I guess if i can maintain during the season, maybe even lose a little if it doesn't affect recovery etc then really work hard during the off season.

Sweet potato another good source of paleo friendly carbs

Are you calorie counting at the moment?

 

[saj_21]

Sweet potato another good source of paleo friendly carbs

Are you calorie counting at the moment?

Yea all over the sweet potato!

Yea i am, i was trying to work it all out over a week to give me an idea. It seems to fluctuate between high and low from day to day, but roughly I'm in calorie deficit by about 2500 calories for the week. Mainly thanks to the 22 hour fast I'm doing today. But this is relying on;

Calculators i found on line to calculate BMR and calories burnt during exercise
Calories in food and me guesstimating how many grams of food i eat (i buy my meat in bulk and have to carve it up myself and weigh it to get the right amount)

Total calories in 14,000 (2000 a day, but does vary from 3000 a day to 1000 a day)
Total calories out 16,500 ( BMR, 3 x 1 hr gym sessions, 2 x 90 mins of footy training and 1 game of footy)

 

[showdownhero]

Yea all over the sweet potato!

Yea i am, i was trying to work it all out over a week to give me an idea. It seems to fluctuate between high and low from day to day, but roughly I'm in calorie deficit by about 2500 calories for the week. Mainly thanks to the 22 hour fast I'm doing today. But this is relying on;

Calculators i found on line to calculate BMR and calories burnt during exercise
Calories in food and me guesstimating how many grams of food i eat (i buy my meat in bulk and have to carve it up myself and weigh it to get the right amount)

Total calories in 14,000 (2000 a day, but does vary from 3000 a day to 1000 a day)
Total calories out 16,500 ( BMR, 3 x 1 hr gym sessions, 2 x 90 mins of footy training and 1 game of footy)

With that amount of activity I would suggest you are underestimating your number of calories output per week. What's your age, weight and height?

EDIT-Also your non-exercise related activity level.

 

[saj_21]

With that amount of activity I would suggest you are underestimating your number of calories output per week. What's your age, weight and height?

EDIT-Also your non-exercise related activity level.

As i said i googled BMR calculator and calories burnt during exercise and came up with those numbers. I am happy to over estimate calories in and under estimate calories out.

im 26, about 81kg 178 cm

i work in an office but i do have to drive around pick up materials, meet clients etc which involves some walking, lifting and carrying so probably a little bit more than your average office worker. I do try and make an effort where i can, to get up walk around to stay "loose" and not stiffen up or walk up stairs in office buildings a bit extra here and there adds up.

 

[showdownhero]

I would say your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) is about 2400 per day not including exercise. I would suggest you burn 300-500 cals with every hour of weight training (obviously depends on your intensity and what muscles are being trained). I have no idea how much energy you would be burning during training and games but it would obviously depend on the intensity of the training and what positions you play.

You're a pretty similar age, height and weight to me (28, 181, 83ish) and I've been aiming for 2000 cals on rest days (high fat) and 2300 cals on workout days (high carb) and have been losing weight fairly easily.

 

[Syphoncom]

Go get a dexa scan if you want. Prices are 90/150/180 for 1/2/3 if you're in melbourne.

 

[showdownhero]

Go get a dexa scan if you want. Prices are 90/150/180 for 1/2/3 if you're in melbourne.

Link?

 

[saj_21]

I would say your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) is about 2400 per day not including exercise. I would suggest you burn 300-500 cals with every hour of weight training (obviously depends on your intensity and what muscles are being trained). I have no idea how much energy you would be burning during training and games but it would obviously depend on the intensity of the training and what positions you play.

You're a pretty similar age, height and weight to me (28, 181, 83ish) and I've been aiming for 2000 cals on rest days (high fat) and 2300 cals on workout days (high carb) and have been losing weight fairly easily.

Thanks, i've been trying to research how much and what type of food to eat on which days, so your advice definitely helps. I'm happy with weight, but am trying to burn some body fat but as you said that may have to wait until post season and just maintain 80-82kg in season.

A few of the guys i train with have the GPS stop watches which tracks how many km's your run, speed, time and calories burnt etc. I may ask what there watches say at the end of training to give me a rough idea. As for game day i play 90% game time in the midfield so i do rack up a few km's. Near on impossible to calculate calories burnt during game day unless you had GPS tracker like the AFL players.

 

[cptkirk]

split can be a lot better

try breaking up into full body ish workouts training the big muscles each session

so

day 1 - legs, back, chest
day 2 - legs, back, chest
day 3 - legs, back, chest

then pop the accessory stuff on the end of each workout much like you have anyway but cut the volume on them because for strength and fat loss, having a focus on smaller muscles will have minimal effect

 

[showdownhero]

split can be a lot better

try breaking up into full body ish workouts training the big muscles each session

so

day 1 - legs, back, chest
day 2 - legs, back, chest
day 3 - legs, back, chest

then pop the accessory stuff on the end of each workout much like you have anyway but cut the volume on them because for strength and fat loss, having a focus on smaller muscles will have minimal effect

Whilst I agree with this, anyone who's calorie deficient needs to be conscious of giving muscles adequate recovery time.

Would training the same muscle groups three times every week allow that?

 

[saj_21]

split can be a lot better

try breaking up into full body ish workouts training the big muscles each session

so

day 1 - legs, back, chest
day 2 - legs, back, chest
day 3 - legs, back, chest

then pop the accessory stuff on the end of each workout much like you have anyway but cut the volume on them because for strength and fat loss, having a focus on smaller muscles will have minimal effect

I have planned to break the footy season into 3 sections of weight training, at the moment 3 day split for 10 weeks. Then 2 sessions a week by 6-8 weeks of plyometrics/body strength training (will help deload and ease the body through the season). Then finish of the season with 2 sessions of full body stuff and gear up towards some serious post season training.

I am experimenting with training during the season as i have never done it before so i will see how i go and i am open to ideas/suggestions.

 

[The_Answer3]

Whilst I agree with this, anyone who's calorie deficient needs to be conscious of giving muscles adequate recovery time.

Would training the same muscle groups three times every week allow that?

I try not to overuse 1 group.

M- Chest
T- Legs
W- Back
T- Cadio only
F- Chest & arms
S- Legs & abs
S- Back & Shoulders

I find the arms and shoulders get some work on chest and a bit on back as well so I don't over do it.

I've found Isolating muscle goups on days and keeping the same 7 day routine helps.

I could do a 4 day rotation but with my schedule, it would become easy to slip out of.

 

[saj_21]

Whilst I agree with this, anyone who's calorie deficient needs to be conscious of giving muscles adequate recovery time.

Would training the same muscle groups three times every week allow that?

I wouldn't be keen on training legs the Friday before a game, that's why i'm trying training legs on monday it might be hard after playing on saturday but gives me a chance to maximise recovery time until the next game. Depending on how i feel after a few weeks of playing i may switch up leg training to wednesday which may allow recovery from the previous game and enough time to recover to the upcoming game.

 

[cptkirk]

Whilst I agree with this, anyone who's calorie deficient needs to be conscious of giving muscles adequate recovery time.

Would training the same muscle groups three times every week allow that?

programmed correctly you can train anything everday...you obviously wouldn't go to failure or aim to build much fatigue but with your goal of strength/fat loss that shouldn't be what's happen anyway

 

[cptkirk]

I have planned to break the footy season into 3 sections of weight training, at the moment 3 day split for 10 weeks. Then 2 sessions a week by 6-8 weeks of plyometrics/body strength training (will help deload and ease the body through the season). Then finish of the season with 2 sessions of full body stuff and gear up towards some serious post season training.

I am experimenting with training during the season as i have never done it before so i will see how i go and i am open to ideas/suggestions.

plyo's will have the complete opposite effect on a deload as they are very nervous system intensive and with training and playing your plyometric needs are more then taken of

i'm about to release a training manual of inseason training for footy over here: aussierulestraining.blogspot.com

 

[cptkirk]

I wouldn't be keen on training legs the Friday before a game, that's why i'm trying training legs on monday it might be hard after playing on saturday but gives me a chance to maximise recovery time until the next game. Depending on how i feel after a few weeks of playing i may switch up leg training to wednesday which may allow recovery from the previous game and enough time to recover to the upcoming game.

mon will be the best time for legs in season followed by wed but hip thrusts can easily be done on a friday before a game

 

[saj_21]

mon will be the best time for legs in season followed by wed but hip thrusts can easily be done on a friday before a game

Thanks for advice, but will just stick with training legs on Monday. If i find it too hard i can always change it.

 

[cptkirk]

for strength you need to train legs...

for speed you need to train legs...

to jump higher you need to train legs...

to burn maximal calories you need to train legs...

more then 1 per week

 

[ablett]

for strength you need to train legs...

for speed you need to train legs...

to jump higher you need to train legs...

to burn maximal calories you need to train legs...

more then 1 per week

Yes training legs is very important but most would rather train bi-ceps 3 days a week a k a Cris Tarrant!

How often does someone tear a pec or bi-cep during a game yet often we tear our hamstrings, groins & quads.
Strong legs less injuries.

I do full body workouts incorporating crossfit or super setting certain muscle groups 2-3 times a week which is better conditioning for football opposed the traditional bodybuilding split program.

 

[saj_21]

for strength you need to train legs...

for speed you need to train legs...

to jump higher you need to train legs...

to burn maximal calories you need to train legs...

more then 1 per week

I agree, but i prefer to have the legs feeling fresher heading into game day. We also do strength and conditioning work at training Tuesday/Thursday that incorporates legs as well, they are getting a good work out.

I would say your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) is about 2400 per day not including exercise. I would suggest you burn 300-500 cals with every hour of weight training (obviously depends on your intensity and what muscles are being trained). I have no idea how much energy you would be burning during training and games but it would obviously depend on the intensity of the training and what positions you play.

You're a pretty similar age, height and weight to me (28, 181, 83ish) and I've been aiming for 2000 cals on rest days (high fat) and 2300 cals on workout days (high carb) and have been losing weight fairly easily.

My mate told me last night we burnt 721 cals in a 75 minute session.

 

[showdownhero]

My mate told me last night we burnt 721 cals in a 75 minute session.

That's probably what I would have expected. Like I said dude I would shoot for maintenance during the season and wait until November before starting a calorie deficient diet.

 

[saj_21]

That's probably what I would have expected. Like I said dude I would shoot for maintenance during the season and wait until November before starting a calorie deficient diet.

Means i can eat as much (within in reason of course) protein, complex carbs, fruit and vegg.....no arguments from me!

Think i will aim for similar amount of protein each day, but on lifting days eat more fat and less carbs and vice versa on footy training days aim for more carbs and less fats.