AFL 2005: Adelaide

[The Hitman]

I'd perhaps agree with your viewpoint a little more if you hadn't got so many things just plain wrong.

If you had even only as much as 50% of your facts straight, then perhaps you would have been able to generate a reasonable discussion here.

I got a few things wrong. I didn't get half of my facts right? You're kidding aren't you?

The brothers were wrong. Apart from that, I don't seen any incorrect statistical analysis or anything that could be construed as "fact" wrong.

You may disagree with my thoughts and opinions (including my best 22 - I would have thought that was a debatable thing, but I gather okc is thinking he has got that sewn up as fact), but I put you as the second worst side in the competition - I expect that.

But don't question the facts. Only one fact has been proven incorrect. If you're going to make a sweeping claim okc, then back it up and so some seerious analysis of your own. It is something that in four years of seeing you post, I have never seen you do. All you do is sit back, criticise and think you're always right.

Well, I was right last year. And if you think Adelaide can improve on last season with the current squad, you're kidding yourself.

Remember, not much in football is fact; most is subjective.

The Hitman

 

[Truck Rutten]

I got a few things wrong. I didn't get half of my facts right? You're kidding aren't you?

The brothers were wrong. Apart from that, I don't seen any incorrect statistical analysis or anything that could be construed as "fact" wrong.

You may disagree with my thoughts and opinions (including my best 22 - I would have thought that was a debatable thing, but I gather okc is thinking he has got that sewn up as fact), but I put you as the second worst side in the competition - I expect that.

But don't question the facts. Only one fact has been proven incorrect. If you're going to make a sweeping claim okc, then back it up and so some seerious analysis of your own. It is something that in four years of seeing you post, I have never seen you do. All you do is sit back, criticise and think you're always right.

Well, I was right last year. And if you think Adelaide can improve on last season with the current squad, you're kidding yourself.

Remember, not much in football is fact; most is subjective.

The Hitman

I reckon there are no shortage of people here that would be happy to have a wager with you on that. Care to put your hard earned where your sizeable mouth is?

 

[The Hitman]

I'd be more than happy to wager $50 on the Crows not finishing eleventh or higher. I'd prefer to make the bet with Kane McGoodwin, to see how a sensible Crow thinks they'll really go, but failing that, I'd bet with anyone I deem as reasonable.

And if I lose, maybe you can dock it from Pred, who still owes me $100 when Port Adelaide failed to win the premiership in 2002. Port Power scumbag.

The Hitman

 

[drakeyv2]

Congratulations on a pretty good review. You have displayed good knowledge of the squad for a non-supporter. I would hate to have to write a review of Hawthorn & post it on the Hawks site.

15th is as fair a guess as any. After all, there will probably only be 1 or 2 games between 15 & 11th or 12th.

 

[Truck Rutten]

Congratulations on a pretty good review. You have displayed good knowledge of the squad for a non-supporter. I would hate to have to write a review of Hawthorn & post it on the Hawks site.

15th is as fair a guess as any. After all, there will probably only be 1 or 2 games between 15 & 11th or 12th.

Last season the difference between 11th & 12th vs 15th was 6 more wins, and in 2003 there was a 7 win difference between those ladder positions. Obviously some of the cellar dwellars from last year will show some improvement, but realistically they aren't going to be knocking off the top sides on a regular basis. Just curious why you think this season will be different?

 

[Jars458]

I'd be more than happy to wager $50 on the Crows not finishing eleventh or higher. I'd prefer to make the bet with Kane McGoodwin, to see how a sensible Crow thinks they'll really go, but failing that, I'd bet with anyone I deem as reasonable.

And if I lose, maybe you can dock it from Pred, who still owes me $100 when Port Adelaide failed to win the premiership in 2002. Port Power scumbag.

The Hitman

He owes me $40 as well.

 

[Truck Rutten]

I'd be more than happy to wager $50 on the Crows not finishing eleventh or higher. I'd prefer to make the bet with Kane McGoodwin, to see how a sensible Crow thinks they'll really go, but failing that, I'd bet with anyone I deem as reasonable.

And if I lose, maybe you can dock it from Pred, who still owes me $100 when Port Adelaide failed to win the premiership in 2002. Port Power scumbag.

The Hitman

I'm pretty confident we will improve on last years finish of 12th (maybe only just, depending on injuries) so if you want to make it interesting just let me know. No I don't think we're going to win the flag, or finish top 4 or anything like that, but despite the opinion of many people outside the club, it's not all doom and gloom and a finish of 7th or 8th is not unrealistic if we have some luck with injuries.

 

[drakeyv2]

Last season the difference between 11th & 12th vs 15th was 6 more wins, and in 2003 there was a 7 win difference between those ladder positions. Obviously some of the cellar dwellars from last year will show some improvement, but realistically they aren't going to be knocking off the top sides on a regular basis. Just curious why you think this season will be different?

I think the Tigers & Bullies will get better.

 

[johnnypanther]

thanks for the summary Hitman:

despite some errors (excusable from a non AFC supporter) and differences of opinion - which have all been mentioned in the other posts - the summary at least sparked some worthwhile debate

i think we can finish anywhere from 5th (with no injuries and some luck) down to 13th (with an injury run similar to the last few years)
i think our problem will occur in about 3 years unless we can discover a couple of top stars to replace Ricciuto & McLeod plus others to replace Edwards,Goodwin)

To me your most salient & insightful points were:

"2004 was merely the warning of things to come. 2005 will be the season that Adelaide has to have to clear out the stocks of underachievers and dead wood that won’t take the club forward down the track.

The likes of Robert Shirley, Mattner, Chris Ladhams, Matthew Smith, Scott Stevens and Hayden Skipworth are simply not AFL standard, but most – if not all – of them will play senior football this season." (i would take Mattner of that list and add Doughty, Massie with Bode & Ladhams being questionable but i agree with the general thrust of your statement

"In Mark Riccuito, Andrew McLeod and Simon Goodwin – as well as Scott Thompson, Tyson Edwards and an up and coming Brent Reilly in the mix - the Crows have one of the best midfield groups going around. But there is little reliable support to that group that isn’t on the wane, constantly injured or at the crossroads.

Neil Craig is the one who needs to choose which road to take: rely on the experienced stars and hope that the band of also-rans can provide enough steel to snatch a very low finals berth, or take the young kids that have been drafted in the past four seasons and give them game time with the stars that have enough in the tank to be around when it is Adelaide’s turn to again be a power.

It would be in the Crows’ best interests for Craig to choose the latter - recent history suggests the former option doesn’t work anyway – but whatever route he embarks on, I can’t see Adelaide improving on last season.

The kids who need to come through aren’t yet ready to carry the side to the finals. Those that are can’t be expected to shoulder the burden alone, especially up forward or down back if Ben Hart’s body fails to hold up.

It will be hard for Adelaide to swallow, but the club needs to take its medicine. Playing the kids instead of third-rate players who won’t feature down the line is the quickest way the club will return to the finals, and with a squad to challenge for the flag."

- as you say my big concern is that our big group of 3rd tiers - of underachievers and never will be good enoughs for a premiership team - are going to get a lot of valuable game time his year in preference to some raw youngsters to our long term detriment. We may get a finals spot as a result but long term i'm not so sure of the benefits - how Craig juggles these 2 groups (delisting candidates and youngsters) will be interesting to see particularly if we do not have a large injury list.
i ask for example would the likes of Hentschell, Reilly, Mattner,Bock,Cassissi, Surjan, K Cornes(Port) and so on be where they are now if they had not had the opportunity to play given to them thru a large injury list?
IMO Cassissi is a prime example - without the injuries Port suffered when they did he probably would have been delisted

i recognize that our underachievers and 3rd tiers have been given another year to fight each other against delisting but i suspect that none of them will help us to the goal of a premiership
eg Shirley - a good honest trier - gets a game as a tagger by default yet IMO he does not rate in the top 20-30 taggers in the AFL and we would be better served finding and developing a younger player in that role

 

[ok.crows]

Hitman: "All you do is sit back, criticise and think you're always right.".

Not al all mate. What I do is sit back and criticise because people are so often wrong.



I take your main point, on a technicality, but nevertheless I'd still count it as damn close to having a "wrong fact" if (for example) you think of Bassett as being the Crows best option for full back in 2005.