Albert Lin - Draft Analysis

[Fall Out Boy]

Just been having a look back at some of this guys comments on past drafts for CNN. A few comments stood out to me:

"Gasol didn't deserve to go in the first round. He is tall, but doesn't have the skills to make it in the NBA"

"First Don Nelson trades for the worst first round pick ever in Dirk Nowitzki, now Chris Anstey. Don't Americans play ball anymore?"

Winners: The Bucks

The Bucks get it right in '98 by stealing the marketable and talented Robert Traylor from the Mavs for an overhyped foreign prospect in Nowitzki."

Ron Artest, Chicago: Does a little bit of everything, but nothing exceptionally. Plays below the rim. Can he guard NBA 2s and 3s?

Under the heading 'The most overrated player ever':

Baron Davis , 6-3, PG UCLA
He's explosive and can push the ball in the open court, but with a suspect jumpshot and the fact that he's out of shape makes one wonder. You would think that once he decided to enter the draft, he would have done all he could to trim down and show the scouts that he's ready to lead a team.

 

[jerry springer]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky

quote:

Ron Artest, Chicago: Can he guard NBA 2s and 3s?

that is gold

 

[no1bankteller]

This is a great NBA profile site...if you do not know it already...having said that this year they f**ed up as they are trying to cash in on foreign player profiles...it is quiet good at describing the college talent...

http://nbadraft.net/index.asp

 

[Kenny_01]

Where can we read more of his comedy?

 

[lamby29]

Winners: The Bucks

The Bucks get it right in '98 by stealing the marketable and talented Robert Traylor from the Mavs for an overhyped foreign prospect in Nowitzki."

hahaha

 

[jerry springer]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Where can we read more of his comedy?

yes link please

 

[Fall Out Boy]

No links boys, sorry. Just seen his stuff on various sites that have old draft pages.

 

[Portmanteau]

A few chestnuts from NBAdraft.net:

Michael Jordan took his time evaluating players and contemplating trades, and in the end he stayed true to his word and drafted as if he wasn't coming back and grabbed the top talent with the most upside potential in the draft. With Kwame, it's not just his game that grabs you. It's the way in which he speaks and carries himself. He seems wise beyond his years and is unafraid to speak his mind. The Wizards have landed the drafts true superstar and under the tuteledge of the greatest, expect big things. Maybe this GM thing will work out for MJ.

New Jersey made a bad decision trading it's mid lottery pick away for 3 mid first rounders. Sure the team has many holes to fill but with players such as Joe Johnson and Rodney White available, three role players do not makeup for the type of pick that you need to build a nucleus around. Not only is the philosphy wrong but the picks were not great ones.

They sure did get one potential star (Jefferson), a starter (Collins) and a decent benchy (Armstrong) for someone no longer in the league. Hindsight is a mother****er. I daresay Johnson and White wouldn't have done as much for the Nets either.

The Bulls got their hearts broken when Darius Miles went a spot ahead of them... But letting Miles slip through his fingers was Krause's big mistake.

...or was it?

The Cavs got their wet dream of a pick. They get a player they know will not make the organization look bad, off the court at least. For the Cavs, trying to find a senior (or something close to it) with talent in this draft was like looking for a needle in a haystack. Mulling over a bunch of underclassmen was the furthest thing from their plans, and getting Mihm for their 8th pick and change was their dream come true. Looks like no one really offered anything to move up for Mihmsy. Even if Mihm turns into a poor mans Rony Seikaly, he's bound to stay healthier then Ilgauskas.

That one's for my man Squeak.

Donnell Harvey is going to be a STUD in a couple years

 

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by Bresh
A few chestnuts from NBAdraft.net:

They sure did get one potential star (Jefferson), a starter (Collins) and a decent benchy (Armstrong) for someone no longer in the league. Hindsight is a mother****er. I daresay Johnson and White wouldn't have done as much for the Nets either.

I still chuckle about that one... Its the one that has stuck in the back of my mind.

Having said that its easy to look back with benefit of hindsight and make fun, for my money its one of the better sites as far as keeping an eye on talent...

Last year it was even better as it gave you access to up an coming junior players moving up through the ranks in Europe now you have to pay :-((

 

[Portmanteau]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
I still chuckle about that one... Its the one that has stuck in the back of my mind.

Having said that its easy to look back with benefit of hindsight and make fun, for my money its one of the better sites as far as keeping an eye on talent...

Last year it was even better as it gave you access to up an coming junior players moving up through the ranks in Europe now you have to pay :-((

Yeah NBAdraft.net is good if you want an upcoming flimpse of up-and-comers, but they seem to get entirely too enamored with HSers and Euros at times. I mean, looking through the 2001 Draft Evaluations, they pretty much guaranteed that the Bulls landed future top 5 players in Chandler and Curry... and they were literally jizzing their pants in anticipation of this Ivan Chiriaev bloke, who got like 10 points in the Canadian HS GF.

You only have to look at this year's draft crop (very potentially best ever, IMO) to see the value of a good college junior/senior...

 

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by Bresh
Yeah NBAdraft.net is good if you want an upcoming flimpse of up-and-comers, but they seem to get entirely too enamored with HSers and Euros at times. I mean, looking through the 2001 Draft Evaluations, they pretty much guaranteed that the Bulls landed future top 5 players in Chandler and Curry...

You only have to look at this year's draft crop (very potentially best ever, IMO) to see the value of a good college junior/senior...

All of the sites that do the forecasting get enamored with Freshman, sophmores and Euro players. Mainly because good to great players seldom play 4 years of college. If you look at this draft the one you think may be the best ever, big call by the way, most of the top players are high school kids, freshmen sophmores or Europeans. Hence why forcasting sites do get carried away with them

By the way I am yet to see a class that has come close to the 1984 Draft class, ie Jordan, Olajuwan, Barkley, Stockton.

Here are the main players from that draft.

First Round
1 Hous Akeem Olajuwon Houston
2 Port Sam Bowie Kentucky
3 Chi Michael Jordan North Carolina
4 Dall Sam Perkins North Carolina
5 Phil Charles Barkley Auburn
6 Wash Mel Turpin Kentucky
7 SA Alvin Robertson Arkansas
9 KC Otis Thorpe Providence
11 Atl Kevin Willis Michigan State
14 LAC Michael Cage San Diego State
16 Utah John Stockton Gonzaga
17 NJ Jeff Turner Vanderbilt
18 Ind Vern Fleming Georgia
20 Det Tony Campbell Ohio State
23 LAL Earl Jones District of Columbia

Second Round
12 Phoe Charles Jones Louisville
22 Port Jerome Kersey Longwood (VA)


Here is another reason why 1984 draft was one of the best ones for NBL too.... PHAT knowing your interest in Supercats, there is a name there that you may appreciate.
Third Round
2 Chi Tim Dillon Northern Illinois

Sixth Round
15 NJ Oscar Schmidt None (Brazil)
23 Bos Steve Carfino Iowa

Seventh Round
2 Chi Butch Hays California

Ninth Round
10 Den Cecil Exum North Carolina

 

[Portmanteau]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
All of the sites that do the forecasting get enamored with Freshman, sophmores and Euro players. Mainly because good to great players seldom play 4 years of college. If you look at this draft the one you think may be the best ever, big call by the way, most of the top players are high school kids, freshmen sophmores or Europeans. Hence why forcasting sites do get carried away with them

Sure, the top 4 comprised of a HS senior, a European and two freshmen... but following that were Wade (junior), Kaman (junior), Hinrich (senior), Ford (sophomore), Sweetney (junior), Hayes (junior), Pietrus (Euro), Collison (senior), Banks (senior), Ridnour (junior), Gaines (senior), Bell (senior)... I think you get the idea.

I don't think there's any question that the top 5 of these drafts will become stars at the very least (one is already on the verge of superstardom). I'd go as far to say, that along with Yao Ming, Zach Randolph and Pau Gasol, you've got 5 of the top 8 players from the last 4 drafts here alone.

All of the other guys, who have been given game-time, have shown something, and in some cases, a lot. Hinrich is probably the 2nd best player on the Bulls squad as it stands, Ford is clearly one of the great floor generals of the next generation and Jarivs Hayes and Chris Kaman have pretty much established themselves as starters on their respective line-ups already, how many rookies can you say that about over the last handful of years?

Originally posted by no1bankteller
By the way I am yet to see a class that has come close to the 1984 Draft class, ie Jordan, Olajuwan, Barkley, Stockton.

Here are the main players from that draft.

First Round
1 Hous Akeem Olajuwon Houston
2 Port Sam Bowie Kentucky
3 Chi Michael Jordan North Carolina
4 Dall Sam Perkins North Carolina
5 Phil Charles Barkley Auburn
6 Wash Mel Turpin Kentucky
7 SA Alvin Robertson Arkansas
9 KC Otis Thorpe Providence
11 Atl Kevin Willis Michigan State
14 LAC Michael Cage San Diego State
16 Utah John Stockton Gonzaga
17 NJ Jeff Turner Vanderbilt
18 Ind Vern Fleming Georgia
20 Det Tony Campbell Ohio State
23 LAL Earl Jones District of Columbia

Yep, it will certainly be difficult to trump the '84 draft. But, aside from the 4 evident Hall-of-Famers in that line-up, no one really amounted to anything huge. I base my call on the fact that you've got 5 players who I feel will be, along with one or two others, the cream of the competition in the coming years, but also, and probably more importantly, a greater part of the draftees are contributing to their teams and certainly look to have long-term futures with their clubs.

Look no further than the final selection of the first-round, Josh Howard (a SR out of Wake Forest), who is this far away from taking Michael Finley's starting spot. There are guys who were taken in the lottery 2, 3, 4 years ago, who are no longer in the L. You can't see that happening with this class.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by no1bankteller

Here is another reason why 1984 draft was one of the best ones for NBL too.... PHAT knowing your interest in Supercats, there is a name there that you may appreciate.

Cecil baby, one of my all-time favourite supercats, along with Ray Owes and Rupert Sapwell.

 

[Portmanteau]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Rupert Sapwell.

Now there's a throwback I'd give my left eyebrow for.

 

[Portmanteau]

Eddie Griffin today announced his intentions to sign with the Nets. Ya gotta laugh...

 

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by Bresh

Yep, it will certainly be difficult to trump the '84 draft. But, aside from the 4 evident Hall-of-Famers in that line-up, no one really amounted to anything huge. I base my call on the fact that you've got 5 players who I feel will be, along with one or two others, the cream of the competition in the coming years, but also, and probably more importantly, a greater part of the draftees are contributing to their teams and certainly look to have long-term futures with their clubs.

Very harsh but let me just go thhrough the players based on memory. and lets take our the hall of famers.

First Round
2 Port Sam Bowie Kentucky

10 year solid player.

4 Dall Sam Perkins North Carolina

Ok was a sixth man on the Lakers team that one three championships. Won a Sixth man award (I think). Played for some 15+ years.

6 Wash Mel Turpin Kentucky

Did ok to start with and then found drugs...waste

7 SA Alvin Robertson Arkansas

Good solid back up. Played for quiet a few years (I think 10)

9 KC Otis Thorpe Providence

Was in top 10 in rebounding for a few years, I think he made the All Star team once. Career 15+ years.

11 Atl Kevin Willis Michigan State

All Star, Averaged 20/10 at least once .... Played next to Hakeem in Huston when they won championships. Has a career spanning almost 20 years.
14 LAC Michael Cage San Diego State

Very good role player...played 15 plus years too.

17 NJ Jeff Turner Vanderbilt

Solid pro...nothing special.

18 Ind Vern Fleming Georgia

Can not remember much about him...


20 Det Tony Campbell Ohio State

PRole player journey man...found a home in Minnisotta...solid player career 10+ years...


23 LAL Earl Jones District of Columbia

Actually I do not remember much about him

The point I was trying to make is that you were being very unfair by saying that the others did not amount to much.

There are at least couple of All Stars and some very good players...ie Sam Perkins...

Then there is one player who got messed up on drugs....whats the bet that one of the more high profile players in this draft will screw it up on drugs too...

 

[Portmanteau]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
First Round
2 Port Sam Bowie Kentucky

10 year solid player.

Solid, yes. I'd argue that it wasn't for ten years. You cannot argue that he fulfilled any of the 2nd pick billing. Former 2nd pick Marcus Camby has arguably had a better career, and we don't label him a good 2nd selection.

Originally posted by no1bankteller
4 Dall Sam Perkins North Carolina

Ok was a sixth man on the Lakers team that one three championships. Won a Sixth man award (I think). Played for some 15+ years.

Chris Bosh, Sam Perkins. Sam Perkins, Chris Bosh. I wonder if Chris Bosh has "6th man of the year" on his current list of aspirations.

Originally posted by no1bankteller
7 SA Alvin Robertson Arkansas

Good solid back up. Played for quiet a few years (I think 10)

OK, this is a non-expanded NBA, and we're getting "good solid back-ups" with the #7 pick, something Kirk Hinrich is currently far-from in his rookie season.

Originally posted by no1bankteller
9 KC Otis Thorpe Providence

Was in top 10 in rebounding for a few years, I think he made the All Star team once. Career 15+ years.

Solid pick here, P&P's favourite player. I won't argue with this one, I just think there's about 15 players from this draft you could give a veritable chance at making the all-star roster at some point during their careers.

Originally posted by no1bankteller
11 Atl Kevin Willis Michigan State

All Star, Averaged 20/10 at least once .... Played next to Hakeem in Huston when they won championships. Has a career spanning almost 20 years.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Kevin Willis has only played in one championship, that being last year with San Antonio. Willis was with Atlanta at the time, IIRC. Not denying his stellar career, but a number of 2003 draftees will have careers of similar quality, they will be the norm as opposed to Willis being one of the exceptions here.

Originally posted by no1bankteller
14 LAC Michael Cage San Diego State

Very good role player...played 15 plus years too.

Yeah, I remember this guy. Once again, I didn't know it was a good thing to get "good role players" at such a position. Luke Ridnour is already a starting-quality PG, and he'll in all likelihood have a 15 year + career.

Originally posted by no1bankteller
17 NJ Jeff Turner Vanderbilt

Solid pro...nothing special.

I think most of us here would see Zarko Cabarkapa turn into slightly more than a solid pro. Should be starting for Phoenix as soon as next season, if not earlier.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by no1bankteller


18 Ind Vern Fleming Georgia

Can not remember much about him...

Oh, not sure how you can't remember Vern, but can other, more obscure types.

Vern was an excellent 10 year vet for the Pacers. In his peak was putting up good numbers, roughly 14ppg, 5rpg, 7apg, 1.5spg.

Vern was as solid as you'll find, and unlike many, was very team orientated.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Bresh
Luke Ridnour is already a starting-quality PG

I don't know about that. He has shown signs, but as yet he hasn't cemented a position in Seattle, despite the team having very poor PG stocks.

The second coming of Dan Dickau?

 

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Oh, not sure how you can't remember Vern, but can other, more obscure types.

Vern was an excellent 10 year vet for the Pacers. In his peak was putting up good numbers, roughly 14ppg, 5rpg, 7apg, 1.5spg.

Vern was as solid as you'll find, and unlike many, was very team orientated.

To be fair I have not really focused on Indiana until say Reggie Miller and Chuck Person days. The other players I noticed a fair bit more of I guess. However I did know he played for a while though just not his stats and was too lazy to look them up.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
To be fair I have not really focused on Indiana until say Reggie Miller and Chuck Person days.

Vern played all through that era. Played from 84-95 i think, so he played 6 years with Chuck and 9 with Reggie.

 

[Portmanteau]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
I don't know about that. He has shown signs, but as yet he hasn't cemented a position in Seattle, despite the team having very poor PG stocks.

I said "starting-quality". You could interchange him with Barry and have little impact on the quality of the starting line-up.

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
The second coming of Dan Dickau?

Comparing their rookie seasons...

Dickau: 50 games, 10.3mpg, 3.7ppg, 1.7apg, 0.3spg
Ridnour (to date): 27 games, 18.8mpg, 7.3ppg, 2.7apg, 1.1spg

Dickau couldn't get minutes on a stinking Atlanta roster, Ridnour is playing a solid role on the play-off contending Sonics.

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

Luke Ridnour will definately be a starter in Seattle.

Hes an excellent player and shouldve gone top 10 in the draft.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Bresh

Comparing their rookie seasons...

Dickau: 50 games, 10.3mpg, 3.7ppg, 1.7apg, 0.3spg
Ridnour (to date): 27 games, 18.8mpg, 7.3ppg, 2.7apg, 1.1spg

Dickau couldn't get minutes on a stinking Atlanta roster, Ridnour is playing a solid role on the play-off contending Sonics.

I didn't say their figures were similar, i said he might be the second coming of Dickau.

Ridnour can do some sweet stuff with the ball, but i feel he'll get treated like a punk on the other end, for a number of reasons.

I know he's from one of your clubs, so i know i won't convince you, but each to their own.