Aussie Rules World Nines

[clarkey]

As promised, a Discussion Paper on the proposed Aussie Rules World Nines is now available:

www.iafc.com.au/worldnines.doc

There is no doubt this has the potential to become a massive event on the international footy calendar.

Comments, suggestions, criticism, praise etc. most welcome.

 

[GoalFlags]

Clarkey

Qualification of players for footy nines. A team like Britain could send a whole team of Australian Players. There are plenty of players who have been here for 3 years and have a British parent. Essentially there would be no "British" players in a British team? I imagine some of the other teams could be the same? I don't know whether the intention of the competion is for expat Australians or non-Australians like the International Cup.

Is this competition to run in addition to the International Cup?

 

[FootyontheBrain]

What rules would the games be governed by? My suggestion would be to keep everything the same except maybe making the goals narrower, 5.5m instead of 6.4m, and of course the obvious field and team sizes.

Other items:
- Qualifications - In my mind it ought to be purely based on your citizenship or country of origin.
- Field Size - Should be 120 yards in length at a minimum.

When in 2005 do you see doing this event, and would you expect the Int. Cup to effect the attendance?

 

[blueswade]

It sounds like a good idea, but I do agree with the others about the qualifications to play, I also think you should have to be of that nationality or at least a citizean.
I am a bit concerned about the fact that it is to be held in 2005 the same year as the international cup, I would hate to see it affect the participation of the event.

Those are my only concerns but other then that it sounds good.

On another note it if the International Cup is to always be played in Australia I would like to see this tournament held overseas and then rotated amongst nations, I think it would lift the profile of the game a lot in the host nation.

 

[Goat]

I agree with most of the points above.

Player Qualification:

I wouldn't think we'd want teams that are mainly expats. Certainly I'd get rid of the grandfather rule part. I know it's desirable to keep things simple, but maybe the rules need to vary by country. The main Australian Rules nations should send players that were born and raised there, or at least not in Australia. So say NZ, PNG, USA, UK*, Ireland, Denmark, Canada and a few others. For countries with no established league or leagues with less than X registered players (e.g. X=150) then allow a certain number of "expats". Maybe have some sort of sliding scale (from 0 to 9), and then set the numbers early so it is clear to each country. Just an idea. Shouldn't be that hard to rule on... presumably we're only talking 20 or so countries, and I think there is a fair bit of knowledge about the state of the game in each when it comes to ruling.

* Maybe the UK could separate into England and Scotland, with the latter benefiting from the sliding scale system. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like it (well, it is my idea!)... could even be extended to the bigger countries, allowing 1 or 2 expats.

International Cup ramifications:

I'd hate to see the International Cup wound up, but surely it would be tough (and draining on developmental funds) to have teams sent to two events in one year (especially since we hear that some countries are already struggling to reach IC2005)? Maybe the aim could be Aussie Rules World 9s every 4 years, and Australian Rules World Cup (18s) every 4 years, staggered 2 years apart. So 2005 becomes the 9s, 2007 the full version, 2009 the 9s, etc (perhaps with the exception of 2008 being the 150th celebrations so maybe slip the 2007 full version to 2008).

(snipped the rest)

 

[Peter P]

Top ideas Goat - especially the staggered comp. This idea arose mainly because of cost for a full IC in 2005 was looking beyond some nations especially to come back in 2008. 9's will always be more afordable and thus could be more often than 4 years eventually whilst the IC [one day called WC when bigger] may stay 4 years but get breathing space to wait till 2008 and hopefully be as best represented as possible given the time scale.

A very successful 2008 full 18-a-side comp should be held in Oz and seen as the major springboard to internationalising the game.

9's will help and keep things ticking.

 

[Goat]

How about something like:

Assuming squads of say 15 for a 9 a side competition, then "Expats" Eligible would be players eligible via the Parent and/or 3 Year Residency Rule. All other players should be born and bred.

(I hope the text formatting works!)
(Goat EDIT: Nope, it didn't. I've re-jigged it a bit using slashes instead of spaces.)

Registered Players / "Expats" Eligible / Example Countries

No league / 15 / Italy, Greece, Vietnam, France, etc

< 100 / 10 / Indonesia, Scotland, Germany, Sweden, Japan, Argentina

100 - 250 / 8 / Ireland, Denmark, South Africa, Nauru, Canada

250 - 500 / 6 / NZ, England, Samoa

500 - 1000 / 4 / PNG

1000 - 5000 / 3 / USA

5000 - 10000 / 2 / -

10000 - 50000 / 1 / -

> 50000 / 0 / Australia

These are only rough guesses at the number of adult players in each country. And I probably left some countries out. The only obvious anomaly that I see is that Ireland probably doesn't need expats to field a very strong side. Maybe they would choose not to include any anyway.

The system would give incentive for countries with small leagues to send a reasonable team (often including some of the Aussies who do a lot of the hard yards getting comps going) whilst encouraging/requiring them to field some of the developing locals. Hopefully over the following few World 9s we would see countries moving down through the list, having fewer and fewer expats (both by the rules and based on ability).

I hope this is still keeping within the spirit of what you intended Clarkey.

 

[FootyontheBrain]

Goat's proposal is good, but I had a sleepless night last night as this concept seemed to invade my sleep.

One of the things that bothers me about all of these representative competitions leave out our Aussie friends who introduced us to the game in the first place. Additionally if we are serious about having the inaugural next season then we need to open things up a bit so the IC isn't adversely affected by the Nines and vice versa.

So why not make it a League All-Star competition limiting the number of Aussies to 6 on the roster and 4 afield at any one time. I think it's a great opportunity to thank the ones who've taught us this great game as well as still giving it an international flair.

And as far as what Clarkey thinks, remember he exists because we allow it to be so.

 

[aussierulz_cl]

I totally agree with Footy on the Brain, because in our case if we want to compete we surely are going to need help of our Aussie friends who live here in Chile...otherwise it could be tougher for us.......we are just beginners!!

 

[Goat]

My proposal would allow Chile either 10 or 15 expats in their squad, based on them having no league, or less than 100 players.

In the US case, it would allow 3. These numbers could of course be varied. In the US case, I wouldn't have though it would be good to have too many expats playing, just the best few, remembering that there is a whole Revolution squad competing for less places.

But FootyontheBrain's suggestion is also good - I think a lot of people would like fixed numbers. Although wouldn't a country like Chile struggle to get a reasonable team together if they can only have 6 Aussies in the squad?

What do other people think... this thread has been reasonably quiet. I thorough discussion here followed by a poll would be good.

 

[FootyontheBrain]

Agree Goat, however, my thought is that some countries could field multiple squads to compete to represent their league as opposed to the countries colors. Granted there aren't that many multiple leagues, but a case in point would be Canada where Vancouver is developing quite well and this could be the impetus for them to form a Northwest league including Seattle, Portland, and Calgary.

This leads to another question. How many teams would the tournament be limited to? 8, 12, 16? With the lightening format Clarkey proposed I think a 16 team tourney could squeeze into one venue, but it would likely extend into both evenings.

Nonetheless, this is one of the most exciting things I've seen floated in some time.

 

[Brian]

Not really neccessary to squeeze it into one venue .The ultimate aim is this to be so popular that every city wants a piece of the action .

As for colours , it's a bit hard when just about every country is either red/white or red/white/blue .

 

[Richoagain]

Originally posted by Brian
Not really neccessary to squeeze it into one venue .The ultimate aim is this to be so popular that every city wants a piece of the action .

Ulitmately, maybe. Thinking about the current realities though, it's probably best as a lightning premiership all at the one venue, among other things it gives a chance for guys playing footy all over the world to come together at the one place and the one time and bounce ideas off each other.

When you're pushing the game at a primarily amateur level, you need to forge some face-to-face ties between groups.

 

[Goat]

I agree that you'd probably want to confine to one venue. I think a big thing will be getting a reasonable venue (assuming it is held outside Australia). A good venue makes a big difference to the atmosphere and professional appearance of an event, which in turn would have an impact on sponsorship and coverage.

In terms of multiple teams from a given country, that sounds okay, as long as it doesn't compromise the quality. I guess if there a is 16 team limit then that may also restrict multiple entries. Clarkey should have a fun time working all this out!

 

[clarkey]

Wow! Great response so far.

At the moment we have received expressions of interest in hosting the event from Los Angeles and London.

In terms of what I think....well it's not up to me. It's up to the countries to agree on a variety of issues, including venue, timing, player eligibility, rules etc.

Also, the World Nines is not meant to be run in competition with the International Cup. But if teams are going to struggle to get to Australia, we believe it is important to have an event off-shore.

Richo also makes a very good point. A key part of this event is the opportunity to come together and discuss some of the key issues regarding the development of the game internationally.

 

[Peter P]

It seems a decision on 2005 IC needs to be made soon. If it is too hard for many countries then it should be cancelled in favour of a concerted big attendance in 2008.

That would then free up all and sundry to look seriously at a World 9's in 2005.

From what I've read on these threads that seems best. A low attendance at 2005 would probably do more harm than good - in image and also financially to leagues and to the 2008 IC.

Why is 2008 so important? Well longer time scale allows for more planning and better teams, but big issue is the 150th Centenary of the Game itself. This milestone will throw a lot of emphasis on the "next 150 years" and a good IC will get the message out that the game must and can be global in a global village.

All that said - if there is the funds around the world for a full quorum at the IC in 2005 and 2008 then perhaps the World 9's should be a smaller event - as it may be held with laxer expat rules the players attending may be different to those selected for the IC. Could it even be a parallel event in Australia to the 2005 IC? Probably better to go for somewhere like LA where europe and the pacific and asian teams can all get to. But if there is a full on IC then.....maybe a world 9's in 2006? alongside the Commonwealth Games then???

starting to ramble here but it seems there is a need for a definite YES/NO for 2005 IC soon.

 

[Luc]

Why would the nines have to be in 2005?

If it was held as a cheaper comp, then couldn't they be held in 2006 as a bridging comp between the 2005 and 2008 18s competitions?

 

[Goat]

That's what I reckon would be best, although I'm not involved in the international leagues so probably doesn't matter much what I think.

But definitely if the hope is for the 9s to become a self funding venture with crowds and media coming along and being impressed, then you need to give it the best chance of the best international teams/players turning up. Same goes for the IC.

 

[Kokoda]

I voted for USA

PeterP said....
Could it even be a parallel event in Australia to the 2005 IC? Probably better to go for somewhere like LA where europe and the pacific and asian teams can all get to. But if there is a full on IC then.....maybe a world 9's in 2006? alongside the Commonwealth Games then???

Totally agree with those comments.

Why I voted for USA in 2005.
Footy 9`s is being mainly driven by the US due to ground size avail problems, and they have heaps of expertise.
Arizona League held their "World 9`S on the weekend with Canada, US Army and womens teams entered. They had 16 teams register and "may" expand it to 20 in 2005.

Clarkey said expression of interest received from USA- Was it the CAFL, who had teams at Phoenix.

In my scanning for news for the website- I have noticed certainly some countries are "preparing" to rock up for IC 2005.

Richo, A belated thanks for the original mention of the website on this forum.

 

[Richoagain]

Re: I voted for USA

Originally posted by Kokoda
PeterP said....
Could it even be a parallel event in Australia to the 2005 IC? Probably better to go for somewhere like LA where europe and the pacific and asian teams can all get to. But if there is a full on IC then.....maybe a world 9's in 2006? alongside the Commonwealth Games then???

Some sort of international footy competition alongside the commonwealth games could be really good, and you'd have a captive audience here for it, but then again it could also make it even harder to get media attention if there's already so much going on.

Also, is the IC 2005 actually going to happen? A few camps are finding it difficult to make it, is it likely to take place? Should the 2005 IC be replaced by the world 9s, with 2008 the next 'real' IC?

 

[Brian]

Does the Commonwealth games still have demonstration sports ?