List Mgmt. Back line 2015 and beyond

[tigerz18]

I have been having a look at our backline for the last 2 years, and the one thing that really stands out is how weak we are in this department. Many here may think that our backline is pretty strong, however, compared with the rest of the list, it is our weakest department.
This was exposed badly during our 2EF losses, and the start of the year when Rance was not fit.
I will break this down into 2 categories, KPD and Small defenders

KPD
Rance, Astbury, Chaplin, Grimes, Elton
Rance, hands down, is in the best 2-3 defenders in the comp, and Astbury cannot take a trick, but is a decent player. they are our two best kpds and are genuine starts next year
Then there is Chaplin, Grimes and Elton.

Where i see our backline heading, is that Chaplins role needs to be taken by Astbury, who i believe is better than Chaplin in the air, reading of the ball, and kicking.
Grimes, I just dont know with him. He is too in between for me. Too small for a kpd, but not quick enough as a small, and doesnt have the skills or playmaker abilities to play the loose man role.
Elton needed to have played at least 3-4 games last year when astbury was injured. he has size and skills to be KPD, and if they are going to continue to have him play in this role, he needs to play senior games next year or he will be on the chopping block.
we need to draft 1-2 kpd defenders this draft to shore up.

Smalls
Dea, Batchelor, Petterd, Houli, Morris, McIntosh, Lennon, Newman
With Vlastuin and Ellis becoming fulltime midfielders next year, our small defender stocks are looking quite thin as well.
Houli, Petterd and Morris are genuine starters next year, even though they all have their deficiencies. Houli is one of the better rebounding players in the competition but there are question marks on his defending. Petterd gives everything, is courageous, a great reader of the ball and is a great intercept marker, but his disposal is iffy. Morris is hard at it and quick, but is prone to going to ground and giving away free kicks or allowing his opponent to run off him.
Batchelor got better during the year and is starting to look like a good mid sized defender next year.
Dea and Newman are pretty much in their final year. Newman is closing down a good career at RFC, and Dea has shown very little to continue a career here.
McIntosh has been unlucky with injuries, but i think he has 1-2 years left to start to show something.
Lennon is going to be a good player, and will be a rebounding defender until he moves to the midfield
We need another small/mid defender this draft.

i feel our midfield and forward line have enough depth in it, and for us to take another step in a few years, our backline needs some serious investment.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Pretty sure we had the third best defence in 2013, and second best defence in the second half of 2014.
First half of the year was atrocious, but Rance was missing for a majority of it and Chaplin was underdone.
Only once this season were we able to play Astbury, Rance and Chaplin in the same backline.
We are weaker up forward in my opinion.
Need another genuine KPF who can kick 40-50 goals.
Really think our backline is coming along nicely.

 

[tigerz18]

i feel that the backline needs more reinforcing for the future and for depth than other lines. Forwards and midfield have more depth and talent for the next few years, but the backline are an injury away from have another poor start to the year.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Rance, Chaplin, Astbury, Grimes and Elton are our tall defenders.
I have question marks over Grimes and Elton, but are willing to give them both a chance as they are still extremely young for KPD.
One more key position defender may be one too many, keeping in mind that Griffiths also has the ability to play in the back half with his size, strength and aerial ability.
I really am more concerned with our attack to be honest.
Seemed to go backwards this year.
In desperate need of a nippy small forward who can apply forward pressure (Edwards?), and also another key forward as Griffiths doesn't impact the scoreboard enough and Vickery is no good in my opinion.

 

[JR82]

in our backline's defence (no pun intended) it's near impossible to do much when the ball is repeatedly flying into the the oppositions fwd line as it was in the 2 EF losses. esp flying into an open fwd line as our Mids have not transitioned to defence quick enough and the ball has just sailed through un-opposed.....

 

[theflea]

Astbury isn't Chappy's replacement as he is the FB on the gorilla types. Grimes is the player directly competing for the 3rd tall spot. Chappy at this stage can do the job until another player overtakes him, but not convinced Grimes is that player.

 

[big oval ballz]

I do think we have some liability's down back that gets exposed when it counts and teams no how to exploit us
like chaplin one on one is crap.. and they knew how to exploit him they no his only elite category is the third man quarterback role out of defence I think of him as a poor mans brain lake ..
like morris over commits most of the time like a dog when u pretend to throw the ball ( I like morris that attack on the ball should be the standard for every player) opposition wise if u no what the person is gonna do everytime you can destroy him which did a few times though him this year . i do realise he had a shit shoulder so that's why opposition were nailing him at times through games
I think houli is pretty good with his run and carry out of defence but to often has those brain fade moments where he fully shanks the ball or miss times a bounce like in ef like in those typical Richmond comical ways of old.
grimes doesn't look like the same player before his hamstring injury's still serviceable player just not the same i reckon .
I think our mid field is worse then our defence. to many one way runners etc.. crumble under pressure... hence why there gonna pick up some with our first few picks etc.. First half of the year crap get delideo maric and miles in plus rance we have the 2nd best defence for the second half like they say games are won in the midfield

 

[JR82]

i reckon having Astbury in the side allows Chappy to play the 'spare man in defence' role. so in effect losing Astbury hurt Chappy if that makes sense as it made him have to take a man & made him accountable.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

I do think we have some liability's down back that gets exposed when it counts and teams no how to exploit us
like chaplin one on one is crap.. and they knew how to exploit him they no his only elite category is the third man quarterback role out of defence I think of him as a poor mans brain lake ..
like morris over commits most of the time like a dog when u pretend to throw the ball ( I like morris that attack on the ball should be the standard for every player) opposition wise if u no what the person is gonna do everytime you can destroy him which did a few times though him this year . i do realise he had a shit shoulder so that's why opposition were nailing him at times through games
I think houli is pretty good with his run and carry out of defence but to often has those brain fade moments where he fully shanks the ball or miss times a bounce like in ef like in those typical Richmond comical ways of old.
grimes doesn't look like the same player before his hamstring injury's still serviceable player just not the same i reckon .
I think our mid field is worse then our defence. to many one way runners etc.. crumble under pressure... hence why there gonna pick up some with our first few picks etc.. First half of the year crap get delideo maric and miles in plus rance we have the 2nd best defence for the second half like they say games are won in the midfield

Strong first post.

 

[bananatigz]

Tall defenders Rance is a star, and Astbury is the big FB we have been wanting as long as he can stay fit. Chaplin I actually think plays that 3rd tall/intercept marking role very well, its when he has to play in Rance or Astbury's position that he struggles. Get all 3 playing together I think it's a very strong group. Grimes is someone who hopefully pushes on and challenges Chappy for his spot throughout the season. Definitely need another player who could replace Astbury or Rance if they go down because I don't think Chappy is that kind of player, definitely would rookie Hartley as a mature FB who could do this.

Small med defenders, houli for mine is a crucial part to our backline and under appreciated around here, we would really really struggle with our transition out of defence without him, ball would just keep flying back in. Morris obviously has question marks after this year but when you consider he played the year with one arm and how effective he was in 2013 i'm willing to back him in to bounce back and become a good reliable back pocket again, would tell him to scrap trying to concentrate on rebounding and just do what you're good at and be a lockdown small. To do this we need someone else to rebound alongside Houli, and it's a position very much up for grabs. Dea/Newman/Batchelor/Petterd/Lennon all in contention and for different reasons all have question marks. With an eye to the future i'd give it to Lennon who we know has the ability to do it, it's a matter of whether he is ready. If he is give him the spot and give him a proper go to establish himself, and have Petterd as the utility on the bench who can swing back there as well if needed. Ultimately in future years I think we need a genuine back flanker though as I see Lennon as a mid/fwd long term

B: Morris, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Lennon
INT: Petterd

Goes ok for me

 

[Juke]

The problem is not our defence or attack. Our problem for the first half of the year was poor ball movement, speedwise and in missing targets, and poor two way running on the turnover. This was predominantly the fault of the midfield.

 

[Tango67]

[QUOTE

B: Morris, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Lennon
INT: Petterd

Goes ok for me[/QUOTE]

As an opposition coach I would love to play against that backline as I see 4 players vulnerable one on one
First move would be to isolate Morris deep in defence if that didn't leak goals I would isolate Chaplain as he is in the same boat....
Lennon is a boy and needs support and I don't see him getting it from the above
Houli is great down hill skier if your team is on top he looks good running out of defence but under pressure he is a worry, isolate him deep and the coach has no chance but to protect him with loose men or move him.
Once you rely on the loose man you doomed against the good sides... We actually start games with a loose man as the weaknesses above are well known

What we need are players that are more rounded, guys that can hold their own one on one, don't panic and create from the back, that's why I would play Hunt, Vlastuin and conca in the back half.

 

[tunksy]

want to see elton taking games of chaplin soon.

grimes rance and elton with batch as another option to play loose

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

want to see elton taking games of chaplin soon.

grimes rance and elton with batch as another option to play loose

Elton is not going to take games off Chaplin even if he deserves them . Madonna and Lennon couldn't even take games off Newman.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Our backline is fine at the moment. In a few years we will need help. So to that extent I definitely agree with the OP. But right now I reckon that we need talent in the middle more than anything. If we can get the ball and hang onto it then our defence will look so much better.

To me the problem is that right now our midfield, defence and attack all have enough talent to look good on paper. But we have little depth anywhere beyond the starting team. So any analysis looking forward, or assuming some of the developing guys don't improve to AFL quality, will have problems. If our guys just improve through experience and development then we will have a very strong side very soon. But right now we are good at full strength playing our game. And weak in depth and when we are forced to play someone else's game. We need players right through the squad to step up and the drafting and development to build depth. We have a top 8 side - no worries. Top 4 if things go right. Real contender if everything goes right and others fall over. We can't rely on others falling over, so we have to improve all over the place.

Glass half full for future talent and potential. Glass half empty if we sit on what we have - we are not there yet.

 

[RunningBounce]

i feel that the backline needs more reinforcing for the future and for depth than other lines. Forwards and midfield have more depth and talent for the next few years, but the backline are an injury away from have another poor start to the year.

I reckon an injury to Riewoldt would be as devastating as an injury to Rance. We've just been lucky that Riewoldt has been so durable.

Equally, having Martin out would leave us exposed up forward. And I'd add that the selectors would pick Gordon / Lloyd well after Grimes.

I think we are probably one significant injury away from sliding down the ladder, no matter whether that comes for the forwards, mids or defender.

 

[sante]

want to see elton taking games of chaplin soon.

grimes rance and elton with batch as another option to play loose

Astbury before Elton surely

 

[Tiger71]

The problem is not our defence or attack. Our problem for the first half of the year was poor ball movement, speedwise and in missing targets, and poor two way running on the turnover. This was predominantly the fault of the midfield.

Our Achilles heel if you like has always been our transition from attack to defending. I brought that down to shit coaching as we always had talent in out side, even in the shit years IMO. We have gone a long way in improving that, its a fact we are one of the hardest teams, believe it or not to score against. We are also one of the most deadly sides to score from a stoppage. We just need to really improve our ability to defend and attack from a turnover during play. I have some hope we will do this.

 

[tunksy]

Astbury before Elton surely

for mine if astbury shows his form from this year he and rance and auto locks. id love to see elton take games from grimes/chaplin whoever. think he has the skill and was starting to put it together late last year in the vfl. his body is a good size now.

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

I get all the negativity regarding chapman but just have a look at Collingwoods last premiership & the role Maxwell played (his entire career in fact) same same

 

[Tango67]

Our Achilles heel if you like has always been our transition from attack to defending. I brought that down to shit coaching as we always had talent in out side, even in the shit years IMO. We have gone a long way in improving that, its a fact we are one of the hardest teams, believe it or not to score against. We are also one of the most deadly sides to score from a stoppage. We just need to really improve our ability to defend and attack from a turnover during play. I have some hope we will do this.

we have rarely had talent (ie) skills and creativity in the backline, thats why we had to use Deledio there... most attacks in the modern area start from turn overs at the HB line..

What you need is guys that can defend, spoil and run away with the ball and create run from the back half.
IMO you can only have 2 non runners in the back half and we have Morris, Chaplin, Grimes, Newman, Batchelor

 

[theflea]

we have rarely had talent (ie) skills and creativity in the backline, thats why we had to use Deledio there... most attacks in the modern area start from turn overs at the HB line..

What you need is guys that can defend, spoil and run away with the ball and create run from the back half.
IMO you can only have 2 non runners in the back half and we have Morris, Chaplin, Grimes, Newman, Batchelor

Agree and this was my point. Some of those players you have mentioned are runners but are either not good kicks, about to retire( Morris, Newman) so we have to get better skilled players in the area. This is why I like Duggan as a draftee.

 

[unfoley926]

Agree and this was my point. Some of those players you have mentioned are runners but are either not good kicks, about to retire( Morris, Newman) so we have to get better skilled players in the area. This is why I like Duggan as a draftee.

Yep loving it boys this exactly what we need crucially for success we, a serious rebounding HB wall, attack from defence. That's why I think Lids is more important to the team of HB especially if we got Knights back and have Dusty on the other HF flank

Also so important in this years draft we pick up a gun defender and having Hunt on board is going to be another special addition. Balance so important but HB line is key for me

 

[DustinsGuns]

We need another running half back

 

[unfoley926]

We need another running half back

We need a gun to dominate that position as we have great talent in all parts of the ground bar HB