Good point...I know a few Italians who migrated there as fruit pickers...
BARASSI LiNE
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Union has a far stronger club presence that is complimented with a strong school comp.
In terms of people playing the game League is a far way behind Union in Victoria.
Saying that the Storm is in a far stronger position with the Rebels that comes because the Storm have been successful and because league is easier to follow and understand as an outsider so it has more of a following among footy fans in Melbourne while most Rebel fans and members are rugby people
I live in the north east Melbourne and not too far from me there are 4 Union clubs and 2 gridiron clubs. There is no league clubs for kilometres.
Rugby in general has a foothold in Perth. You had a Super Rugby franchise 5 or so years before Melbourne
Couple of interesting additions to Turner's bio in the linked article. The reason why he was made to work as a cleaner in the railways ("gaining proletarian experience") was because, while attending a youth festival in East Berlin he'd had a fling with a young African-American woman who was a delegate from the American party. His wife found evidence in one of his jackets and confided in her father, a wealthy Jewish businessman who was won of the few major financial benefactors to the party. Turner, who'd been a rising star was suddenly forced to clean carriages rather than pursue his promising academic career. In 1956, he led a courageous fight within the party to try and get it to break with Stalinism and condemn the invasion of Hungary, which is why he was expelled. Out of the party he was able to return to do his PhD which became "Industrial Labour and Politics", a classic account of the Australian labour movement around the time of WW1. My own research has been in exactly the same area and I've had some criticisms of aspects of his work which, had I known he was a Tiger man, I may have muted. 
As it happens, another area of my research has been the social history of Canberra where I am also originally from. The Aussie Rules flavour in the town came from the fact that the original public servants sent there came from Melbourne where they had been based - they were still transferring departments as late as the '70s. My uncle, who played the game there in the late '50s and early '60s, tells me that the police commissioner at the time was a footy nut who liked to recruit cops who were good at the game. The blue collar workers who built the town, however, were mostly from NSW (apart from the odd exception like Tom Hafey's dad) and the initial cadre was recruited from the struggling mining towns in the area like Captains Flat. So the town was always divided in its loyalties between codes. I remember it as being pretty much 50/50 when I was a kid.
Nowadays the public service is recruited from everywhere, so its hard to fight the predominance of NSW blow-ins among the non-public service population. But I agree that the AFL may have made a blue by not expanding earlier into Canberra.
As it happens, another area of my research has been the social history of Canberra where I am also originally from. The Aussie Rules flavour in the town came from the fact that the original public servants sent there came from Melbourne where they had been based - they were still transferring departments as late as the '70s. My uncle, who played the game there in the late '50s and early '60s, tells me that the police commissioner at the time was a footy nut who liked to recruit cops who were good at the game. The blue collar workers who built the town, however, were mostly from NSW (apart from the odd exception like Tom Hafey's dad) and the initial cadre was recruited from the struggling mining towns in the area like Captains Flat. So the town was always divided in its loyalties between codes. I remember it as being pretty much 50/50 when I was a kid.
Nowadays the public service is recruited from everywhere, so its hard to fight the predominance of NSW blow-ins among the non-public service population. But I agree that the AFL may have made a blue by not expanding earlier into Canberra.
Garlic muncher
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Couple of interesting additions to Turner's bio in the linked article. The reason why he was made to work as a cleaner in the railways ("gaining proletarian experience") was because, while attending a youth festival in East Berlin he'd had a fling with a young African-American woman who was a delegate from the American party. His wife found evidence in one of his jackets and confided in her father, a wealthy Jewish businessman who was won of the few major financial benefactors to the party. Turner, who'd been a rising star was suddenly forced to clean carriages rather than pursue his promising academic career. In 1956, he led a courageous fight within the party to try and get it to break with Stalinism and condemn the invasion of Hungary, which is why he was expelled. Out of the party he was able to return to do his PhD which became "Industrial Labour and Politics", a classic account of the Australian labour movement around the time of WW1. My own research has been in exactly the same area and I've had some criticisms of aspects of his work which, had I known he was a Tiger man, I may have muted.
As it happens, another area of my research has been the social history of Canberra where I am also originally from. The Aussie Rules flavour in the town came from the fact that the original public servants sent there came from Melbourne where they had been based - they were still transferring departments as late as the '70s. My uncle, who played the game there in the late '50s and early '60s, tells me that the police commissioner at the time was a footy nut who liked to recruit cops who were good at the game. The blue collar workers who built the town, however, were mostly from NSW (apart from the odd exception like Tom Hafey's dad) and the initial cadre was recruited from the struggling mining towns in the area like Captains Flat. So the town was always divided in its loyalties between codes. I remember it as being pretty much 50/50 when I was a kid.
Nowadays the public service is recruited from everywhere, so its hard to fight the predominance of NSW blow-ins among the non-public service population. But I agree that the AFL may have made a blue by not expanding earlier into Canberra.
Not a lot has changed, i know a bit about it, RL is dominant in the surrounding districts, AF is strongest in the actual town of Canberra, point proven by the amount of junior RL teams from QByan, Yass, Bungendore, Crookwell, Cooma etc and a lack of AF teams from the same areas, in some age groups there is nearly as many teams from these towns combined as there is from Canberra which has in comparison a massive population advantage.
AF as the advantage of a couple of quite big AF clubs from schools such as St Eddies and Marist, RL has no such clubs.
Some good points made about Canberra footy here
http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/08/01/the-nation’s-capital-celebrates-100-years/
According to nrlwa.com.au there were a grand total of 22 senior mens teams in Perth and surrounds in 2015. If that's good enough to win a national comp then it says more about how little the game is played in the 'affiliate states' than how strong it is in WA.
As a comparison, there are 27 senior mens teams in the Black Diamond AFL comp, based in a city widely reknown as supposedly hostile to AFL with a quarter of Perth's population. And a footy team has a lot more players than a rugby league team.
Garlic muncher
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Couple of interesting additions to Turner's bio in the linked article. The reason why he was made to work as a cleaner in the railways ("gaining proletarian experience") was because, while attending a youth festival in East Berlin he'd had a fling with a young African-American woman who was a delegate from the American party. His wife found evidence in one of his jackets and confided in her father, a wealthy Jewish businessman who was won of the few major financial benefactors to the party. Turner, who'd been a rising star was suddenly forced to clean carriages rather than pursue his promising academic career. In 1956, he led a courageous fight within the party to try and get it to break with Stalinism and condemn the invasion of Hungary, which is why he was expelled. Out of the party he was able to return to do his PhD which became "Industrial Labour and Politics", a classic account of the Australian labour movement around the time of WW1. My own research has been in exactly the same area and I've had some criticisms of aspects of his work which, had I known he was a Tiger man, I may have muted.
As it happens, another area of my research has been the social history of Canberra where I am also originally from. The Aussie Rules flavour in the town came from the fact that the original public servants sent there came from Melbourne where they had been based - they were still transferring departments as late as the '70s. My uncle, who played the game there in the late '50s and early '60s, tells me that the police commissioner at the time was a footy nut who liked to recruit cops who were good at the game. The blue collar workers who built the town, however, were mostly from NSW (apart from the odd exception like Tom Hafey's dad) and the initial cadre was recruited from the struggling mining towns in the area like Captains Flat. So the town was always divided in its loyalties between codes. I remember it as being pretty much 50/50 when I was a kid.
Nowadays the public service is recruited from everywhere, so its hard to fight the predominance of NSW blow-ins among the non-public service population. But I agree that the AFL may have made a blue by not expanding earlier into Canberra.
Apparently according to the article he lived in Richmond and had huge parties before and after Richmond games, win, lose or draw, as i said, he would have been a fun guy to be around, a imposing figure and probably life of the party.
Fond of the ladies as well it seems.
Must admit the end of the OP's article bought a tear to my eye, it was indeed a enviable way to go
At 2.30pm, Turner, 56, made a stylish stroke from the crease, ran 10 paces to the bowler's end, paused, and fell. When he collapsed it seemed like a prank. It was worth a few laughs in the moment, but he was dead before he hit the sand.
They attempted resuscitation for 45 minutes, then carried his body to a grassy shelf by the beach. They rigged a tarpaulin above and hitched a flag to half mast.
Murray-Smith said it was an enviable way to go.
"Death came amid the splash of waves at his feet, the cries of gulls, sunshine and wind, the laughter of children and the clapping of hands. As he fell he was cradled in the arms of those who loved him and whom he loved. His flame was extinguished instantaneously, as by a mighty wind.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/where-d...-of-course-20160225-gn3lbe.html#ixzz41kEVdy5Z
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56 colts teams at WAAFL metro level ( 2015) , plus the WAFL colts teams, i know our club this year has a year 10 team and a year 12 team but no year 11 team, last year our year 9 team had 38 players sign up, more than enough for one team not enough for 2, 12 players got cut, you probably won't see them back.
I would have thought that under 17 was year 12, maybe year 11, not sure what age group Sheedy is talking about.
I always laugh when I read these threads.
Rugby League is a ******* brutal game, it is dangerous for an adult who is not in fine physical shape to go out and have a run.
If you want to have a comparison, compare both codes and touch footy and oztag. Then all of a sudden you come to a different conclusion.
Any punter in sydney (and I am sure in melbourne) can go down and have a run for a park AFL team. Go and play park league and you are likely to get injured, maybe park union if you know the rules, depends on position. Hence people who just want to have a run around will play touch or oztag.
Honestly, the difference between the brutality between rugby league and AFL is massive, for the same reason you will have a lot more kids playing soccer then American Football in America.
That said there is an element of truth to one of the posters who mentioned the investment the AFL makes in its participation and kids, that is true, it is commendable, great for the kids , community and well being of their sport. It is also a different culture, AFL is borderline religous for people who live in an AFL place whether physically or in their mind. RL is considered sporting entertainment, not a religion.
Rugby League is a ******* brutal game, it is dangerous for an adult who is not in fine physical shape to go out and have a run.
If you want to have a comparison, compare both codes and touch footy and oztag. Then all of a sudden you come to a different conclusion.
Any punter in sydney (and I am sure in melbourne) can go down and have a run for a park AFL team. Go and play park league and you are likely to get injured, maybe park union if you know the rules, depends on position. Hence people who just want to have a run around will play touch or oztag.
Honestly, the difference between the brutality between rugby league and AFL is massive, for the same reason you will have a lot more kids playing soccer then American Football in America.
That said there is an element of truth to one of the posters who mentioned the investment the AFL makes in its participation and kids, that is true, it is commendable, great for the kids , community and well being of their sport. It is also a different culture, AFL is borderline religous for people who live in an AFL place whether physically or in their mind. RL is considered sporting entertainment, not a religion.
Garlic muncher
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Canberra was never a bonafide Aussie Rules town, Canberra is a bit of this and a bit of that, RL strong at working class level and state school, RU strong at private school level, Aussie rules has a bit of both, but probably stronger at Catholic school level.
The Barassi line is quite grey really, i note this year Moruya which is a little bit inland in Southern NSW along the coast has got a club up and running and has teams from juniors to Sapphire (SCAFL) reserves, traditionally the game has moved up the coast on the back of southern migration or in the South Coast's case migration from Canberra and the Riverina, the inland NSW centers are usually missed because tree and sea changers like the coast ( obviously) so teams in Bega and now Moruya is a slight change in the grey area of the Barassi line.
Having had some involvement in junior and senior footy in Sydney for awhile now, I can confidently say Aussie rules is played by a lot of kids but it's their second or even third sport. #1 sport could be union, league, water polo, athletics - you name it as long as it's not afl.
They play aussie rules to have fun with their mates but their real passion is union or league and once they graduate from junior footy, that's the end of their playing days and they play their chosen sport as an adult.
The drop off rate from juniors to senior footy is staggering and a real concern. The #1 sports do shuffle a bit at this age with girls, drugs and drink moving into the top 5.
The auskick and junior participation numbers for sydney may look good, but they're b.s because these kids aren't the lifers like we are. There's no buy in or commitment once they're out of the junior system.
The AFL need to do more than just have participants to have real presence in NSW, and it will come, but they still do some stupid things that result in 2 steps forward, 3 steps back at times.
This incursion into the Barassi line is strong and will hold but could do with better leadership.
They play aussie rules to have fun with their mates but their real passion is union or league and once they graduate from junior footy, that's the end of their playing days and they play their chosen sport as an adult.
The drop off rate from juniors to senior footy is staggering and a real concern. The #1 sports do shuffle a bit at this age with girls, drugs and drink moving into the top 5.
The auskick and junior participation numbers for sydney may look good, but they're b.s because these kids aren't the lifers like we are. There's no buy in or commitment once they're out of the junior system.
The AFL need to do more than just have participants to have real presence in NSW, and it will come, but they still do some stupid things that result in 2 steps forward, 3 steps back at times.
This incursion into the Barassi line is strong and will hold but could do with better leadership.
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Tbh the drop off rate is big in any state and for any sport: as you've mentioned, as we get older, the majority of us have less time and less effort. We get to one sport in each season, and one of those is usually purely for fun. By the time we're 16, we all know plenty of promising sportsmen who fall to the inevitable human vices of the opposite sex, partying, and laziness. I don't think it's any more of a concern in Sydney than anywhere else. Who cares if these kids who drop Aussie Rules at 13 are the ones who drop rugby at 17? They're going to drop sport regardless. The AFL is more interested and hoping for the investment of the Giants and Suns to pay off in terms of top-end talent, not in terms of 28-year old fat blokes playing twos all over New South Wales.
So long as there's an allure for the cream, and dedicated pathways that have tangible examples of success, then the game should be okay. Realistically New South Wales and Queensland only need to contribute like 40% of the draft combined to be a total success – that's taking into account their larger populations. With stuff like the academies, that should continue on.
If any sport has serious issues over junior drop offs its soccer. If the FFA could hang onto 20% more of the kids who play it at age 10, the Socceroos would be a perennial top 20 side. The issues with soccer come mostly from the appalling, nepotistic, exclusive youth programs and the appallingly overpricing of participating even at fun, throwaway level.
Garlic muncher
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Not sure how much QLD & NSW contribute as a % of the draft and when you take Southern NSW out of the equation, but the academies seem to have made a fair difference ATM, what Sydney seems to miss is a strong grassroots football culture, plenty of kids may play but unless the parents etc are strong at club level then the kids don't follow through, the northern and eastern suburbs are a bit of a exception whom seen to have a decent footy presence.
Fill Blenley
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Afl is getting bigger no questions
thegreig
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Depends how you look at it, you could probably argue tassie as well
Tassie probably even more so.
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NT beats them all.
AliceCat
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Garlic muncher
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Bit further North of the Barassi line, but gives some sort of an idea of the numbers playing footy in the Western Suburbs of Sydney, which is the real 'battlefield', kids sport.
Baulkham Hills has always played in the North West comp which is part of the North Shore and Northern beaches league, but because it is zoned to the Giants, they are having to transfer to the GWS juniors.
They will go from being a decent sized club in the current league to a Giant in the GWS league.
http://www.baulko.org.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=ZNFEPW+Ex94=&tabid=183
Baulkham Hills has always played in the North West comp which is part of the North Shore and Northern beaches league, but because it is zoned to the Giants, they are having to transfer to the GWS juniors.
They will go from being a decent sized club in the current league to a Giant in the GWS league.
http://www.baulko.org.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=ZNFEPW+Ex94=&tabid=183
Are Eden and Bega more League or Aussie Rules centres?
League, though AF is probably stronger in Merimbula/Pambula.
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I think that's right, at one point, Merimbula had two teams in the Sapphire Coast league, and Pambula had a team, despite being a small town only 6 clicks down the road or something. Traditionally, Bega and Eden were relatively weak, but still fielded teams.
