Blackjack or Pontoon?

[CranktheAnchors]

Was wondering what the rakes are on these 2 games at Crown?

Also what is everyones favourite?

Do you bother with betting on Perfect Pairs/Pontoon Pandemonia?

Thoughts

PS What is the rake on Roulette?

 

[standingroomonly]

There isn't actually any "rake" out of a blackjack hand since you are playing against the house already. If your talking about the odds of winning the house has an edge on average of about 8%.

This edge comes from players busting when the dealer also busts it also depends of the skill of the player, i.e knowing when to hit/stay/spilt/double etc. you can reduce the house edge by playing basic strategy or card counting.

I'll play perfect pairs sometimes but i'm not really into it, on some of the lower limit tables upstairs there is sometimes more money on pairs then the blackjack.

Roulette has a 2.7% edge on a single zero table, and a 5.26% on a 00 table which is why you should avoid them if possible but if you want to play $2.50 tables i think thats all crown has now.

 

[CranktheAnchors]

There isn't actually any "rake" out of a blackjack hand since you are playing against the house already. If your talking about the odds of winning the house has an edge on average of about 8%.

This edge comes from players busting when the dealer also busts it also depends of the skill of the player, i.e knowing when to hit/stay/spilt/double etc. you can reduce the house edge by playing basic strategy or card counting.

I'll play perfect pairs sometimes but i'm not really into it, on some of the lower limit tables upstairs there is sometimes more money on pairs then the blackjack.

Roulette has a 2.7% edge on a single zero table, and a 5.26% on a 00 table which is why you should avoid them if possible but if you want to play $2.50 tables i think thats all crown has now.

So if I bet the same amount every hand for 2000 hands and played basic strategy I would win 920 times and the Dealer would win 1080 times on average???

I noticed that with the roulette last time that the rake would be a bit different they have only brought that in over the past 12 months???

I don't really play perfect pairs either just think the odds are terrible.

 

[RU486]

There isn't actually any "rake" out of a blackjack hand since you are playing against the house already. If your talking about the odds of winning the house has an edge on average of about 8%.

This edge comes from players busting when the dealer also busts it also depends of the skill of the player, i.e knowing when to hit/stay/spilt/double etc. you can reduce the house edge by playing basic strategy or card counting.

I'll play perfect pairs sometimes but i'm not really into it, on some of the lower limit tables upstairs there is sometimes more money on pairs then the blackjack.

Roulette has a 2.7% edge on a single zero table, and a 5.26% on a 00 table which is why you should avoid them if possible but if you want to play $2.50 tables i think thats all crown has now.

Far from it, playing blackjack ploppies usually give the house about a 2-3% edge, having playing basic strategy for BJ will only give the house a tiny 0.2-0.8% house edge. If indeed your local casino has pontoon dealt from a shoe, you have a very profitable game if you have the time and effort to master card counting. Card counting in blackjack will give you an edge of about 1-2% in the long run, however casino personnal will often back you off and refuse to let you play this game.

 

[standingroomonly]

yeah that was pretty high. that edge all depends on the game situation. the amount of decks, what cards you can double on, surrender rules, dealer standing on soft 17 etc.

Most of those things are going against you at crown

Blackjack Rules

8 Decks, dealt from shoe
Double on 9, 10 or 11.
Dealer stands on soft 17 (S17)
Split to 3 hands
Aces split to 2 hands
One card only on split aces
Double after split (DAS)
Double for less allowed
Blackjack pays 3:2
Insurance pays 2:1
Dealer blackjack takes Original and Busted Bets Only (OBBO)
First card from shoe burnt

http://www.blackjack.iinet.net.au/Crown.html

even though it is a little basic it gives you a good rundown of how to play, gives you a BS chart

 

[Embers]

yeah that was pretty high. that edge all depends on the game situation. the amount of decks, what cards you can double on, surrender rules, dealer standing on soft 17 etc.

Most of those things are going against you at crown



http://www.blackjack.iinet.net.au/Crown.html

even though it is a little basic it gives you a good rundown of how to play, gives you a BS chart

Aces are split to 3 hands and 4 decks are used not 8. 8 in a manual shoe, 4 in a automatic shuffler

 

[standingroomonly]

Split again to form a third hand where
the second card dealt is of the same
value as the first except when splitting
aces. Aces may be split only once to
form two hands and only one additional
card will be dealt to each ace. The
player may not elect to receive
additional cards or split again.

Rule 7.5.5 c) iii)

http://www.crowncasino.com.au/assets/contentFiles/378/BlackjackRulesVersion11.0.pdf

 

[Embers]

Rule 7.5.5 c) iii)

http://www.crowncasino.com.au/assets/contentFiles/378/BlackjackRulesVersion11.0.pdf

Was changed in March of this year. That hasnt been updated by the looks of it

 

[standingroomonly]

Dunno mate,although you sound pretty confident it has VCGR Approved 28/10/2008 on the bottom of every page.

Although sadly i haven't had the opportunity to test the rule lately. Only had to split aces once only in the last couple of months

 

[Embers]

Dunno mate,although you sound pretty confident it has VCGR Approved 28/10/2008 on the bottom of every page.

Although sadly i haven't had the opportunity to test the rule lately. Only had to split aces once only in the last couple of months

I know at Burswood they changed the rule then Crown took over and then they changed it back this year. Crown would be the only casino in the southern hemisphere not to do it if true. They tried to keep it at 2 but im fairly sure they ended up changing it back. They did at Burswood anyway

 

[standingroomonly]

fair enough. It's not the worst rule they have anyway really. the dealer hitting on soft 17 is killer

 

[Embers]

fair enough. It's not the worst rule they have anyway really. the dealer hitting on soft 17 is killer

They dont do that at Burswood or Crown. You sit on soft 17. What kills you in Blackjack is playing more than 2 boxes and playing with noobs who cant play strategy. Keep it to 1-2 boxes and play by yourself at a 25 table. Dont play pairs, dont split anything except 2s or 8s and dont play insurance

 

[standingroomonly]

They 100% do hit on S17 at Crown. But i agree with the not playing with noobs who refuse to hit on 15/16 Vs. a 10 or will hit on a 13-16 Vs a 6

 

[Embers]

They 100% do hit on S17 at Crown. But i agree with the not playing with noobs who refuse to hit on 15/16 Vs. a 10 or will hit on a 13-16 Vs a 6

Dont play with anyone period. Noobs or not.

Page 17, 7.5.6 (a) on your link to Crown site says otherwise. I think however that pdf is a crock of crap and maybe they recently changed the rule...

 

[standingroomonly]

would be nice, but one the public gaming floor (i.e not teak, oak, mahogany etc.) you play "Crown Blackjack" which the sneaky buggers don't advertise . the differing rules, including the hitting on soft 17 are hidden away on page 44, rule 14.2.2 a)

 

[Ron]

Dont play with anyone period. Noobs or not.

Page 17, 7.5.6 (a) on your link to Crown site says otherwise. I think however that pdf is a crock of crap and maybe they recently changed the rule...

They do hit on soft 17 at Crown, and they only let you split aces to make two hands.

 

[RU486]

yeah that was pretty high. that edge all depends on the game situation. the amount of decks, what cards you can double on, surrender rules, dealer standing on soft 17 etc.

Most of those things are going against you at crown



http://www.blackjack.iinet.net.au/Crown.html

even though it is a little basic it gives you a good rundown of how to play, gives you a BS chart

Dont trust that site, I've been to it afew times, looks like it hasent been updated in about 4 years. Most casinos tend to change their rules reguarly and it is often hard to access the rules at present.

For example at Burswood I believe you have to ask the dealer to know the rules. Does anyone know the rules at Burswood? I'm quite sure they use four decks, S17, NS, D 9,10,11, DAS and no peek giving them a house edge of 0.59%. Only problem is they use CSM's
everywhere besides on $100 + minimum tables, with the exception of maybe on some busy public holidays.

I might be going to Crown some time next year, can anyone confirm if they still have 8 deck shoe games. Cheers

 

[Embers]

Dont trust that site, I've been to it afew times, looks like it hasent been updated in about 4 years. Most casinos tend to change their rules reguarly and it is often hard to access the rules at present.

For example at Burswood I believe you have to ask the dealer to know the rules. Does anyone know the rules at Burswood? I'm quite sure they use four decks, S17, NS, D 9,10,11, DAS and no peek giving them a house edge of 0.59%. Only problem is they use CSM's
everywhere besides on $100 + minimum tables, with the exception of maybe on some busy public holidays.

I might be going to Crown some time next year, can anyone confirm if they still have 8 deck shoe games. Cheers

I just gave the rules at Burswood. Same as Crown except sit on soft 17 and you can split Aces 3 times. 4 decks are used and there are no shoe games within the casino unless your willing to play 10k a pop and even then you are watched like a hawk.

I just realised that when I was in Crown with a mate we werent on the main floor hence why the rules are different.

 

[RU486]

K, thanks for the quick response. I believe Pontoon is a much better game to play in terms of monetary value. Pontoon games are usally always dealt from a shoe and there is usually high deck penetration ~80-90% making card counting highly effective, regarless of the rules offered. Also pontoon does not get much hear, if any heat from the pit and high bet spreads are tolerated.
However, blackjack is a much more sociable game and does not require nearly as much skill. Pontoon's basic strategy chart will require ~2-5 hours to remember and because 10's are removed from the deck a different counting system must be used if card counting is to be succesful.
Not that anyone would be interested, but Katarina Walker published a book, a Perth native who investigated the potential for Pontoon to be beaten. http://www.lulu.com/content/1239961 for a review of the book.