Bomber Thompson

[Tarzans grip]

Overreaction. There is no disgrace in losing to GC at Metricon.

 

[TJTIGER]

Overreaction. There is no disgrace in losing to GC at Metricon.

Reckon they'll get a few teams up there... & welcome Tarzans grip the the BF Tigers

 

[ReaperX]

To be honest I don't think its even close.

The year before Harvey started at Fremantle in 2006 they finished 3rd at the end of the home and away season with 15 wins. In his first year they notched 10 wins and finished 11th. He took over an ok side, not brilliant but ok.

Compare that to Dimma. The year before he started at the Tigers we came second last with 5 wins and the worst percentage in the league. In his first year we again finished second last. We were a basket case and a long long way back.

Fremantle now have 13 players 26 or older while Richmond has 5 so no doubt player maturity has also played a part in the success they now enjoy.

Dimma has achieved far more with Richmond than Harvey did with Fremantle.

While I do support Dimma at this stage, and I do agree partly with what you're saying, the bolded part of this post is incorrect.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-richmond-tigers?year=2014&sby=15

Chris Newman - 31 yrs, 10 mths
Orren Stephensen - 31 yrs, 8 mths
Aaron Edwards - 30 yrs
Jake King - 29 yrs, 11 mths
Nathan Foley - 28 yrs, 8 mths
Ivan Maric - 28 yrs, 2 mths
Troy Chaplin - 28 yrs
Daniel Jackson - 27 yrs, 10 mths
Chris Knights - 27 yrs, 5 mths
Matt Thomas - 27 yrs
Brett Deledio - 26 yrs, 11 mths

Plus we have a few guys who are about to turn 26 this year as well:

Shaun Hampson - 25 yrs, 11 mths
Shaun Grigg - 25 yrs, 11 mths
Bachar Houli - 25 yrs, 10 mths
Ricky Petterd - 25 yrs, 7 mths

So by the end of this year, we'll have 15 players who are 26 or over. Now, if as expected, The Big O and Chris Newman hang them up, it'll still be 13 players (same as Freo). And next season we'll have the likes of Shane Edwards, Jack Riewoldt, and Steven Morris entering that 26 years and older bracket as well.

The point is, our time really is now, while we're by no means the oldest list, or most experienced in games played, we're ALSO not a team of kids anymore. Our development phase is over, and what we require now is 3-4 seasons of consistent, finals-like performances, week in and week out.

I'm generally pretty positive, but I do worry when I see results like that on the weekend, where we look outclassed by a team like the Suns. Ablett might be 30 now, but the rest of them are like 21-24. We aren't that young anymore, so our scope for improvement is less than theirs, yet they seem to have passed us.

For the first time in all of our encounters with GCS, they actually looked better for the whole match. In the other losses, we've lost through either sheer stupidity from a select few individual players, or just not put the foot down when we had the chance (like in that very first encounter, when we led 36 to 1 at quarter time and then cruised through the next 3 quarters).

This time, GCS looked fitter, stronger, faster, and just better skilled than us, and while it can be said that we did just have a bad game and they had a good one, the fact that they have closed the gap so quickly, means that having a skilled team (which we do have) isn't enough anymore, we need the absolute best coaching staff available to back it up.

The first 4 years, it has been about improving our list. This year it's about our coaches getting 100% better than they currently are. To put it another way, we are the reverse Western Bulldogs of 2008-2010 at the moment. They had a great coach, but not the complete list to win a flag.

We actually have a list that I believe is capable of winning a premiership, but I'm not sold on Hardwick being good enough yet to deliver a premiership. He'll still deliver us finals in the coming years, but think about this: If on the last day in September, it was Hardwick Vs. Clarkson, or Hardwick Vs. Lyon, and you had to put your house on it, would you truly pick Hardwick as the winning premiership coach?

I know I wouldn't, and that's just being honest.

 

[Turka]

You make some good points Reaper.
But Hardwick vs Clarkson, and even Hardwick vs Lyon, has done okay so far.
Our season will be easier to pick at about 10.00p.m. Next Thursday night.

 

[ReaperX]

You make some good points Reaper.
But Hardwick vs Clarkson, and even Hardwick vs Lyon, has done okay so far.
Our season will be easier to pick at about 10.00p.m. Next Thursday night.

In a Grand Final though? Or hell even just a regular final? I just don't see it.

Speaking of the Carlton game, that Elimination Final last year showed me two things.

1) Richmond have a better team/list than Carlton, as shown when the players completely outclassed the Blues in the first half.
2) Carlton have a better coach than Richmond, as shown when Mick changed up some of his tactics, and Hardwick had absolutely no answers.

If Carlton was 67 to 41 up at half time in that EF, they wouldn't have lost. Not because they are anything special, but because Hardwick wouldn't be creative enough to find a way for our guys to get back into the game.

With all that said, the one mistake I think alot of people make when assessing a coach's performance, is not giving them room for improvement. Hardwick may well become our next premiership coach, but at this stage he's basically the coaching version of Tyrone Vickery; heaps of potential, has shown he has the talent, but needs to get better for the team to get better.

If Hardwick improves, we'll be a contender. If he doesn't, we need somebody else. The time is now.

 

[AstroboyUK]

As the OP mentions. Mark Harvey = dimma.
Mark Harvey did a great job, as Dimma has....but at the end of the day it's not just round 1. It's a combination of a few things from the last few years. Dimma has this year, 100%. He deserves it too, but theres no question that in certain games, certain moments his tactical game day decisions have been flawed.
Therefore if we arent in talks with Bomber we are negligent as a club. Need to cover all bases and ensure if this years a failure we have plans ready to go.

quite possibly the dumbest post I've read in the last 3 years on this forum. 'Sometime makes mistakes on game day' WOW. He is the only coach in the league that makes the odd mistake!

'negligent not to be in talks with Bomber"? really? REALLY? when you fart do squirrels come out of your arse singing the monkees theme, and posing provocatively for each other? because that would be just about the only less credible thing than your post. Tigers supporters, we get he club we deserve I guess. I hope some of you pricks start dying off because I'd rather be a small club with sanity than big 4 with idiots like this doing their utmost to sabotage any credible steps to u
ndoing the last 30 years.

 

[Nostradumbass]

 

[Yelle]

Have you not seen bomber in media interviews of late ?
It is not normal for people to dribble and shake .

What interview was this lol

 

[Cotcho]

quite possibly the dumbest post I've read in the last 3 years on this forum. 'Sometime makes mistakes on game day' WOW. He is the only coach in the league that makes the odd mistake!

'negligent not to be in talks with Bomber"? really? REALLY? when you fart do squirrels come out of your arse singing the monkees theme, and posing provocatively for each other? because that would be just about the only less credible thing than your post. Tigers supporters, we get he club we deserve I guess. I hope some of you pricks start dying off because I'd rather be a small club with sanity than big 4 with idiots like this doing their utmost to sabotage any credible steps to u
ndoing the last 30 years.

Lol @ posters who begin a post with an insult. Dont worry child, ill humour your ramblings. "Quite possibly the dumbest post I've read in the last three years". Lol how many times have i heard this bigfooty from...well...ignorant posters really. As i said, ill humour you.

I agree with the OPs sentiment that Dimma may only be an adequate coach, and although he has built a decent list he may not tactically have it. A bit like Mark Harvey, who was also a decent coach. The structures, discipline and the team he has taught and built is great, like Fremantles. We are however, talking about moving forward, and now that we have a list, tactically beating others to win finals etc You disagree? Fine. As i said, Dimma deserves this year and we will probably be closer to knowing by years end. So whats so bad about that? You able to keep up so far? Ill continue.

When I say he has made mistakes....of course this doesn't mean other coaches haven't, dont try and put words into my mouth, I am talking about huge mistakes where Dimma has been completely destroyed in the coaching box ala against Essendon last year where our slow predictable movement and kicking the ball around the backline killed us....im talking about the elimination final, im talking about round 1...there are other examples including certain questionable team selections, which stem as far back as his first year with Shane Tuck. Well done on pointing out here that coaches make mistakes...well done....but sadly for you nobody here said they didnt. A few have asserted that Dimma makes more than the likes of Lyon, Roos, Malthouse, Scott and Thompson and i would tend to agree. Again if you disagree fine. Are you comprehending all this mind melting stuff?

You foolishly jumped to the conclusion that me saying that if we are in talks with another coaches that I was meaning we should sack Dimma here and now...well now you just look like a turkey dont you? Please inform all of us, please point out where I said we should sack Dimma? Was I overreacting like many on here, or did I say Dimmas deserved at least til the end of the year? Now heres the biggy, the great anti-Dimma, anti-Richmond propaganda i was apparently sprouting! I still maintain that IF we arent in talks with the potentially out of contract duel premiership coach Bomber Thompson, and given that football is a ruthless business, then the club is absolutely being negligent. Not contacting the managers of out of contracted players such as Bryce Gibbs would be equally so. This doesnt mean the coach is going anywhere, it means that if things regress and its obvious that a coach/player needs replacing our club is ready and all the boxes are ticked. This is called due diligence

I am actually not sure how anyone might still not understand the above but i wouldnt put it past a poster who starts with the cliche "worst post on bigfooty" posters so take the above how you will...

 

[TigermanM2]

While I do support Dimma at this stage, and I do agree partly with what you're saying, the bolded part of this post is incorrect.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-richmond-tigers?year=2014&sby=15

Chris Newman - 31 yrs, 10 mths
Orren Stephensen - 31 yrs, 8 mths
Aaron Edwards - 30 yrs
Jake King - 29 yrs, 11 mths
Nathan Foley - 28 yrs, 8 mths
Ivan Maric - 28 yrs, 2 mths
Troy Chaplin - 28 yrs
Daniel Jackson - 27 yrs, 10 mths
Chris Knights - 27 yrs, 5 mths
Matt Thomas - 27 yrs
Brett Deledio - 26 yrs, 11 mths .

Yeah misread the list I was looking at.

I guess the point I was making when comparing to Fremantle is that they have more mature key players than us so are probably a couple of years ahead with their list management. I agree with you though that our list should now be mature enough (and good enough) to expect to make finals now. No excuses.

 

[TigermanM2]

1) Richmond have a better team/list than Carlton, as shown when the players completely outclassed the Blues in the first half.
2) Carlton have a better coach than Richmond, as shown when Mick changed up some of his tactics, and Hardwick had absolutely no answers.

30 years of coaching experience vs 5 really told on the day.

 

[AstroboyUK]

Lol @ posters who begin a post with an insult. Dont worry child, ill humour your ramblings. "Quite possibly the dumbest post I've read in the last three years". Lol how many times have i heard this bigfooty from...well...ignorant posters really. As i said, ill humour you.

I am actually not sure how anyone might still not understand the above but i wouldnt put it past a poster who starts with the cliche "worst post on bigfooty" posters so take the above how you will...

blah blah blah. Let me summarise both your posts in a different way.

Coach inherits terrible list. Coach progressively improves lists, culture, discipline, skills over 3 years. Coach leads club to first finals in 12 years with percentage of 120 and statistically just about the best defence in the league. Coach loses Rnd 1 away game by 12points..... and Supporters say: "he's not the coach to take us forward, the club is negligent if its not looking at alternatives".

Cotch I did lay on the sarcasm for fun - and realised later it read far too personally aimed at you, so sorry about that: I was really responding in frustration at the collective mindset of all the posters with jellybacks who at the first issue want to revert to the culture of the past 30years and think they somehow sound heroic by doing so (ie sack him, get him, its a cutthroat industry bullshit). Its this aspect that I find totally pathetic and immature, and (to be frank) unmanly. FFS, stay the course. In 30 years its the only thing we haven't done.

 

[Cotcho]

blah blah blah. Let me summarise both your posts in a different way.

Coach inherits terrible list. Coach progressively improves lists, culture, discipline, skills over 3 years. Coach leads club to first finals in 12 years with percentage of 120 and statistically just about the best defence in the league. Coach loses Rnd 1 away game by 12points..... and Supporters say: "he's not the coach to take us forward, the club is negligent if its not looking at alternatives".

Cotch I did lay on the sarcasm for fun - and realised later it read far too personally aimed at you, so sorry about that: I was really responding in frustration at the collective mindset of all the posters with jellybacks who at the first issue want to revert to the culture of the past 30years and think they somehow sound heroic by doing so (ie sack him, get him, its a cutthroat industry bullshit). Its this aspect that I find totally pathetic and immature, and (to be frank) unmanly. FFS, stay the course. In 30 years its the only thing we haven't done.

Fair enough, thanks for the apology. I thought i was careful enough to make sure i didn't sound too reactional like many on here but obviously I wasn't so apologies for that. It has been my thoughts of Dimma for a while but perhaps an ill timed discussion following round 1 etc.

The jury is still out on Dimma though, and Like I said he's been good and should see out the year regardless of what happens next. I just think it's always wise to have plans in place if things dont go as well as we all hope. Just so we dont end up like the lions and sack our coach for a guy whos coaching another club already. It seems Bomber might be the main man at Bomberland for longer than expected so imo talks are good. Having said that, sticking to the coarse is preferable but it takes something special to win the flag and who knows if we started from too far back. Fremantle also have a recent history of crazy trades/decisions just like us, but it seems Lyon has been amazing for them and gave their stable improving list a real jolt. That's all.

 

[caroma]

Yes coz what we need right now is yet another coaching change ......

No thanks.


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["The Roar Is Back"]

In a Grand Final though? Or hell even just a regular final? I just don't see it.

Speaking of the Carlton game, that Elimination Final last year showed me two things.

1) Richmond have a better team/list than Carlton, as shown when the players completely outclassed the Blues in the first half.
2) Carlton have a better coach than Richmond, as shown when Mick changed up some of his tactics, and Hardwick had absolutely no answers.

If Carlton was 67 to 41 up at half time in that EF, they wouldn't have lost. Not because they are anything special, but because Hardwick wouldn't be creative enough to find a way for our guys to get back into the game.

With all that said, the one mistake I think alot of people make when assessing a coach's performance, is not giving them room for improvement. Hardwick may well become our next premiership coach, but at this stage he's basically the coaching version of Tyrone Vickery; heaps of potential, has shown he has the talent, but needs to get better for the team to get better.

If Hardwick improves, we'll be a contender. If he doesn't, we need somebody else. The time is now.

It's funny I have always felt out drafting hasn't been as great as many others have thought .
I have and still do think that our improvement has predominately come from one dimensional mature aged players.
You could very easily argue our best 22 has more players recruited to the club as matured aged rather than developed by the club from the draft .
Likewise you could mount a argument that the only players we have drafted in the last 5 + seasons , that are in our best 22 are first rounders .
No doubt it has been a wonderful rise however, it does not provide great flexibility from the coach during a game .
It also means we are going to have a large amount of players exist the club at one time .
The test comes in the form of players like Arnott , Helbig , O'hanlon , Griffiths , Dea and Astbury making the transition from the potential in 2014.