Cam Bruce

[AFL is Number One]

Watched the replay of yesterdays game on Foxtel, and in the cool light of day, our performance was far worse than I frst thought.

Especially that of Cam Bruce.

What I didn't really notice yesterday was his dismal second efforts or complete lack of...something that was picked up straight away by a former coach in Robert Walls.

For someone as talented as Bruce, a senior player around the club, last years B & F winner etc etc...yesterday's performance was woeful.

Walls didn't comment much..he didn't have to, as pictures of Bruce making no effort just about said it all.

Very,very dissapointing.

 

[Dez!]

He was better than everyone bar Sylvia, Grimes and Jamar.

Cops too much crap on these boards most of which is unwarranted.

 

[Den11]

I think in this case though Dez it is warranted. Was beaten early in defence and showed some soft acts. He is only showing a shadow of his former ability's

 

[Dez!]

Took that off the main board and that tells us that he's our most damaging midfielder, criticize him for yesterday that's fine but overall he cops far too much unwarranted crap on here.

*Also good too see Morton on the list as well, his tackle count will pick up once he develops anything that remotely resembles a muscle on his frame.

 

[Ausyid]

Took that off the main board and that tells us that he's our most damaging midfielder, criticize him for yesterday that's fine but overall he cops far too much unwarranted crap on here.

*Also good too see Morton on the list as well, his tackle count will pick up once he develops anything that remotely resembles a muscle on his frame.

What does the % mean?

 

[Dez!]

Bruce contributes a goal from every 18.73 disposals and has 8 goal assists, very decent attacking effort this season considering he's been playing "so badly".

Not saying he's been awesome or anything but no where near as bad as it has been perceived on this board.

 

[Den11]

I think the stats would show Davey with 186 kicks compared to Bruce's 122 with his overall Eff higher at 81% would get the nod Melbournes most dangerous mid. Going by stats Morton is a line ball with Bruce as well.

I think the things that dissapoints us with Bruce is when he lets him self down off of the ball.

No one has been arguing that he isn't a champion of our club, though you expect more from these players. I loved watching Morton backing back into play to take a mark on their forward 50, and Jones laying the body on Pendlebury and collecting the ball and dishing off. Then to watch our club champion lay some weak takles and weak second efforts i think hurt a lot of supporters.

Stats don't show ones overall effort.

 

[maggers]

I agree with both but I think the lack of effort he shows in that those little situations really shines through. It kinda sends the message to fans that he's not willing to be desperate and put his body on the line for the club. Those few soft acts is what makes him cop the critisism because alot more is expected from the vice-captain.

I'm not saying we should make him retire because the stats are there as proof, hes our most damaging midfielder, but he needs to start showing desperation and committment in the one or two contests that shadow what hasn't been a bad season

 

[proka123]

I think he has been very good, he had one bad game though. So what?
He was awsome in our win almost every week days. But he's not going to produce that sort of form in a team that's struggling to win games. The form that he is in now is good enough.

 

[Colin Grigson]

I've said it before and i'll say it again, Bruce is a one-way street, a downhill skier, etc..

Gives us nothing defensively, hasn't for a long time...

File under Travis Johnstone.


A senior player who doesn't lead, go figure...

 

[Jeebs]

Bruce has played better than he's generally credited with this year.
That said, he's also turning the ball over a hellofa lot more than he used to.
Don't quote me disposal efficiency, hospital handpasses and kicks are, unfortunately, still 'effective'.

Pray tell. How many disposals does Bruce take to gift the opposition a goal?
Given he averages 18.3 disposals a game (career. 25.5 this year), he's given us a goal and a third per game this year. Again, how many has he cost us? Sure, he most certainly is left holding the shitty end of the stick because of his no-more-gaps role, yet someone in a very similar position, Green (although 2 years younger), doesn't hurt us anywhere near as badly as Bruce does.

 

[proka123]

Bruce has played better than he's generally credited with this year.
That said, he's also turning the ball over a hellofa lot more than he used to.
Don't quote me disposal efficiency, hospital handpasses and kicks are, unfortunately, still 'effective'.

Pray tell. How many disposals does Bruce take to gift the opposition a goal?
Given he averages 18.3 disposals a game (career. 25.5 this year), he's given us a goal and a third per game this year. Again, how many has he cost us? Sure, he most certainly is left holding the shitty end of the stick because of his no-more-gaps role, yet someone in a very similar position, Green (although 2 years younger), doesn't hurt us anywhere near as badly as Bruce does.

He's not the only one, remember, we've only one won game. He has plenty of mates.

 

[Demon 86]

I think in this case though Dez it is warranted. Was beaten early in defence and showed some soft acts. He is only showing a shadow of his former ability's

His former abilities never included tough acts though.

People expect just coz u chuck a VC next to his name that he all of the sudden changes into a player who is tough and tackles and shepherds etc..

He's NEVER done that. He's ALWAYS been soft. He's never needed to be the guy who contributes defensively and leads by example, and isnt cut out to be. He's a great attacking player (not in great form) but not a leader- he's there by default. Who else do you put into the leadership group? In next year or two there'll be candidates but last yr and this yr theres no one to push him out.

His acts of softness have been going on for 10 years but because we've by and large been a reasonable team in those times its gone unnoticed.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

His former abilities never included tough acts though.

People expect just coz u chuck a VC next to his name that he all of the sudden changes into a player who is tough and tackles and shepherds etc..

He's NEVER done that. He's ALWAYS been soft. He's never needed to be the guy who contributes defensively and leads by example, and isnt cut out to be. He's a great attacking player (not in great form) but not a leader- he's there by default. Who else do you put into the leadership group? In next year or two there'll be candidates but last yr and this yr theres no one to push him out.

His acts of softness have been going on for 10 years but because we've by and large been a reasonable team in those times its gone unnoticed.

Agreed... if he was in a team like Geelong, he'd probably look like a star, but in our team as things stand right now, he is called upon to take more responsibility, and that's, at least sometimes, a bridge too far for Bruce. But we don't have a plethora of other options at the moment.

 

[00Stinger]

I've said it before and i'll say it again, Bruce is a one-way street, a downhill skier, etc..

Gives us nothing defensively, hasn't for a long time...

File under Travis Johnstone.


A senior player who doesn't lead, go figure...

Is that why the club strongly considered him for captain???
He must have some sort of leadership qualities.

Seriously this season I have never heard so much bitching about our players. One week everyone wants Sylvia gone, four weeks later hes a god. Its a similar story with Bruce. Whats next Watts and Davey have a couple of bad games and then we want them gone aswell????

 

[00Stinger]

His former abilities never included tough acts though.

People expect just coz u chuck a VC next to his name that he all of the sudden changes into a player who is tough and tackles and shepherds etc..

He's NEVER done that. He's ALWAYS been soft. He's never needed to be the guy who contributes defensively and leads by example, and isnt cut out to be. He's a great attacking player (not in great form) but not a leader- he's there by default. Who else do you put into the leadership group? In next year or two there'll be candidates but last yr and this yr theres no one to push him out.

His acts of softness have been going on for 10 years but because we've by and large been a reasonable team in those times its gone unnoticed.

You dont need a team of 22 hard nuts every week. You need outside and running players as well

 

[Jeebs]

He's not the only one, remember, we've only one won game. He has plenty of mates.

Yep. Didn't say he was alone. Yet what I did say, Green (as a close to 'like' senior) giving far fewer scores to the opposition, reflects very poorly on Bruce.

Either he's trying too hard, ie beyond his ability, or taking on too much, ie beyond his capcity and it is hurting us. This, at least, is addressable. Asking Bruce to harden up, post Guerra, is whizzing into the wind and telling yourself it's a raining.

Edit: Thinking on it, I'd MUCH rather Bruce dropped back to his career disposal average and played smarter and cleaner. Raising your disposal count 40% has to take its toll. Let the kids pick up the slack.

 

[Colin Grigson]

Is that why the club strongly considered him for captain???
He must have some sort of leadership qualities.

Seriously this season I have never heard so much bitching about our players. One week everyone wants Sylvia gone, four weeks later hes a god. Its a similar story with Bruce. Whats next Watts and Davey have a couple of bad games and then we want them gone aswell????

They considered him for Captain because our senior group is weak as a whole..

Sylvia's been at the club for 6 years, so people are sort of well within their right to have a go at him, because up until recently, he hasn't done anything for us..

We're '1' and '10' for chrissakes!! We won how many games last year??? and the year before that???

Sorry, for appearing to be negative, but we suck...and senior players like Bruce should be showing the way, but by and large they aren't. Its a major reason why we are bottoming out..

I could count on my left hand the amount of times Bruce has shown courage in a match. He's a senior player, and he doesn't lead by example. So make of that what you will...

 

[Dez!]

We're '1' and '10' for chrissakes!! We won how many games last year??? and the year before that???

Sorry, for appearing to be negative, but we suck...and senior players like Bruce should be showing the way, but by and large they aren't. Its a major reason why we are bottoming out..

I could count on my left hand the amount of times Bruce has shown courage in a match. He's a senior player, and he doesn't lead by example. So make of that what you will...

FFS Not every player does courageous things like going back with the flight or anything like that, why do people insist that's what leading is? I'd say Bruce has been leading by example, by playing the way he knows how to play. He isn't an inside midfielder and he doesn't play like he is, prime examples of this are Jones and PJ. Jones for all his effort and endeavor believes he has the speed and evasiveness to bust through packs into space and has proved numerous times he can't. PJ believes he is a rucking midfielder but he's proved that he's a rucking moron by constantly making idiotic decisions because he believes he's better than he really is.

Bruce and Green are the two players over the last few years that we have been able to count on to play consistent football and all of a sudden people are bitching and moaning.

How come people aren't berating the stupidity of our backline on Monday?

The sheer stupidity of Paul Johnson?

The entire midfield for ignoring just about every Watts lead?

 

[Colin Grigson]

FFS Not every player does courageous things like going back with the flight or anything like that, why do people insist that's what leading is? I'd say Bruce has been leading by example, by playing the way he knows how to play. He isn't an inside midfielder and he doesn't play like he is, prime examples of this are Jones and PJ. Jones for all his effort and endeavor believes he has the speed and evasiveness to bust through packs into space and has proved numerous times he can't. PJ believes he is a rucking midfielder but he's proved that he's a rucking moron by constantly making idiotic decisions because he believes he's better than he really is.

Bruce and Green are the two players over the last few years that we have been able to count on to play consistent football and all of a sudden people are bitching and moaning.

How come people aren't berating the stupidity of our backline on Monday?

The sheer stupidity of Paul Johnson?

The entire midfield for ignoring just about every Watts lead?

Yeah but you look at the 'good' teams' and they have a host of midfielders that play 'inside' and 'out' depending on what's needed.

The problem with Bruce is that he gives us nothing defensively, but he's also not damaging when he's got the ball in his hands.

I don't care what the stats show. Because if you sit there and watch him for long periods, he doesn't do enough for a senior AFL player. His disposal is average at best. He doesn't tackle all that frequently and when he does they're usually weak. He doesn't spoil, he doesn't shepherd, he doesn't bring his less experienced team mates into the game.

I don't think Bruce is the only player letting us down. But the fact is, as a senior player, he doesn't do enough. I didn't say anything negative about Green, because he's been just about our best 'experienced' player over the last 2 or 3 seasons (he had an ordinary game on Monday, but he'd also missed a few games through injury, so his touch wasn't quite there..)

He is being exposed because we are struggling overall. He is a reasonable player, but he doesn't deserve to have his name read out on selection night week-in week-out like he does..

 

[Demon 86]

You dont need a team of 22 hard nuts every week. You need outside and running players as well

Yeah of course, i'm actually standing up for Bruce here (albeit in an extremely roundabout way!).

People expect just coz u chuck a VC next to his name that he all of the sudden changes into a player who is tough and tackles and shepherds etc..

Sorry- trying to quote myself think that works- but what I'm saying is that Bruce has never done any of these acts and isnt expected to. Im saying that Bruce shouldnt be expected to become a tough nut or completely change just because he's suddenly the oldest player in a very young and unsuccessful team.

He was born soft and he'll die soft- but softness doesnt stop you from being a good attacking footballer.

 

[Jeebs]

How come people aren't berating the stupidity of our backline on Monday?
The sheer stupidity of Paul Johnson?
The entire midfield for ignoring just about every Watts lead?

Our backline is predominately youth. They have also had to deal with pathetic 'efforts' from the midfield ...
PJ .. would you waste your breath?
The midfield and Robertson.

But, you know, the thread title is Cam Bruce. Our vice captain.

 

[MelbourneFC_32]

It is so disappointing that Bruce cops so much and even worse that is from his own supporters. Unfortunately some people don't understand the game and just fall for perception, and then these people tell their rubbish to other people who don't understand the game and that's how players can get a bad reputation.

Cameron Bruce is not soft. Is he Jonathon Brown or Joel Selwood? No, but not many players are. Not every single player in the competition is a pack busting machine.

30% of Bruce's possessions are contested. Just FYI that is higher than Scott Thompson, Lenny Hayes, Kane Cornes, Jimmy Bartel and Sam Mitchell. He also has more one percenters that all those players besides Bartel. His tackles are down this year, but he has been a one of the leaders of this in the past.

Now the negative Nancy's will say that you can use stats to prove anything. But that is a cop out. Contested posessions are when you WIN the ball. That is the ball is there to be won, someone else tried to win it, and you beat them.

All your doing by saying Bruce is soft, and an outsider who doesn't do the hard things is saying 'I don't understand football' and you are embarrassing yourselves.

He is not as good as he was, his kicking is has gone downhill and he has lost some of his confident flair. But please stop with the outsider, soft crap because it is nothing short of absolute tripe.

 

[Colin Grigson]

Cameron Bruce is not soft. Is he Jonathon Brown or Joel Selwood? No, but not many players are. Not every single player in the competition is a pack busting machine.

30% of Bruce's possessions are contested. Just FYI that is higher than Scott Thompson, Lenny Hayes, Kane Cornes, Jimmy Bartel and Sam Mitchell. He also has more one percenters that all those players besides Bartel. His tackles are down this year, but he has been a one of the leaders of this in the past.

Its a joke you're even comparing him to the likes of K.Cornes, Bartel, Hayes and Mitchell. Bruce isn't even a shadow of those players. That is 'exactly' why your statistical observation is useless...

If you're happy looking through rose-tinted glasses then that's your business. But a lot of Melbourne supporters are tired of watching his half hearted efforts go unpunished. So there ya go...

 

[Dez!]

Our backline is predominately youth. They have also had to deal with pathetic 'efforts' from the midfield ...
PJ .. would you waste your breath?
The midfield and Robertson.
But, you know, the thread title is Cam Bruce. Our vice captain.

I initially had the entire team but changed it to the midfield, I did see Robbo ignore Watts but I also saw him realize that he missed the chance and he was filthy with himself so I gave him some leniency.