Club History Carlton at the Draft 1981 - 2014

We got nothing directly back for Betts. End of story. We lost an elite small forward. Either best or second best in league at that role.
Dale Thomas was an incoming player.
Yes, because we got Dale Thomas via free agency meant we were disallowed to get anything for Betts. Thomas is no compensation if he cost a lot more and maybe in future causes us to lose another player via salary cap squeeze.
In essence it meant we gave up Betts in order to pay Thomas a lot more. Have a look at their seasons we just had. Hard to argue Thomas is worth more than Betts. Certainly not a couple of hundred thousand more. Don't get me wrong, which you jumped down my throat by tone of your post, but I hope like hell Thomas gets over his injuries and plays like a genuine mid for next 5 or 6 seasons but the jury is still out for long term on that.
My whole point is so far we don't seem to adjust to new systems of list management well. Our results speak for themselves.
I hope it changes.

I wish Betts well and Waite. Both great club servants through a tough time over many seasons. I just wish when we do have good players we value them properly so when we do decide to part with players we do so in a way that gets us something back for future to either replace that player resource in present or gives us some source of having access to early picks or youngsters on the up. None of that has happened in both those instances. I only hope Thomas works out and encouraged by his worth ethic he showed.
So the club is to blame for the way that the AFL free agency compensation works? We had already accounted for the money we were offering to Daisy and if you want to listen to the media about how much he is getting (which as far as I know, no one has actually disclosed how much he is getting) then you are always going to be wrong in your figures.

We tried to keep Eddie, he wanted more money than we thought he was worth at the time... so we didnt bother to match it. END OF. How is the club at fault in this? Do we pay massive overs for a guy who doesnt really want to be there or do we bite the bullet like we did and let him go. We had already lined up Daisy so we knew that we were not going to get any compensation for losing Eddie... once again, whose fault is that? We said, at the time, that we had the salary cap for another FA player at the salary level that we were paying Daisy. So please please tell me how did we have to give up Eddie just to get Daisy?

It's no ones fault we lost Eddie for nothing... because thats how the system works.

As for us getting nothing for Waite... read the line above. The AFL decides on the compensation based on age and length of contract at the new club. We thought we were going to get a band 3 or band 4 pick for him and then the AFL decided that we didnt deserve anything.

You are being a revisionist trying to make the story fit your version of events.
 
Aug 27, 2014
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So the club is to blame for the way that the AFL free agency compensation works?

You sir, are off with the fairies.
I never said the club is to blame for a system.
I simply pointed out Eddie Betts was a free agent when someone asked and also pointed out my opinion of price involved plus an opinion of also I do not believe to this point we shown we know how to work with this system to our benefit as a club. We need to learn and get better as first few attempts I've not been impressed as a long time member at what is going on.
My issue with as a club is our overall lack of thought of many aspects of list management. I'm not going to get caught into debating the pros and cons of one individual free agency aspect when there is so much more involved with how all aspects of list management effect the other. Seems not a lot of thought into it. I do not look at Eddie Betts in isolation. The overall picture does not impress me. Let players go that a lot better than average footballer for nothing but pay a lot more for getting someone in that has questionable value long term for such a price. If you do not understand my concern. Fine that is your opinion.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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You sir, are off with the fairies.
I never said the club is to blame for a system.
I simply pointed out Eddie Betts was a free agent when someone asked and also pointed out my opinion of price involved plus an opinion of also I do not believe to this point we shown we know how to work with this system to our benefit as a club. We need to learn and get better as first few attempts I've not been impressed as a long time member at what is going on.
My issue with as a club is our overall lack of thought of many aspects of list management. I'm not going to get caught into debating the pros and cons of one individual free agency aspect when there is so much more involved with how all aspects of list management effect the other. Seems not a lot of thought into it. I do not look at Eddie Betts in isolation. The overall picture does not impress me. Let players go that a lot better than average footballer for nothing but pay a lot more for getting someone in that has questionable value long term for such a price. If you do not understand my concern. Fine that is your opinion.
I think we understand your concerns and where they come from, but we see it differently.

Thomas wasn't expected to play much on 2014, yet got through heaps. Yes, we paid overs for him. That's FA, but we need mid-20s midfielders. Look at who is retiring in the next couple of years! There is long term planning done for these things. You would be crazy to think not. Whether Daisy lives up to the price tag, we will soon find out, but dismissing it as a poor move before it has even played out is just... dumb.

Betts wanted to go. There's nothing more to discuss there. Unless you know something we all don't, the club can't be held responsible.

Waite wanted more than the club was willing to give. I suspect because they know a flag isnt happening in his time, so why pay overs to hold on to him? I can hardly find fault in the club there either.

Jones is KPF (which we desperately need) who is the right age and cost us very little. What's the problem there?

You need to look at each trade and FA transfer individually. There is a story or a reason behind them all which you can't separate from the overall picture.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Fine. That is your point of view. I beg to differ. Sorry for having a different view.
I'm not trying to have a go at you. If we all agreed on everything, we would only discuss cheese puns and dumplings.

You brought up your concerns and I am trying to explain why I think that you're pulling the trigger a little early on this current team of recruiters and list managers, that's all.
 
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