Hot Topic CARLTON SUPPORTERS ONLY - Carlton fires Captain Carlton

[Gethelred]

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

This thread is for the discussion of the sacking of a club mascot after refusing to participate in a bar mitzvah which was allegedly sending money back to the IDF.

By taking this position and labelling the act racist, the club has taken a position on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

This thread concerns a discussion of the following:

• whether it is acceptable for the club to fire someone for taking a political stance.
• whether it is a good idea for the club to have taken a public position on this issue.

This thread is not a thread in which you should partake in expressing your political beliefs concerning the conflict, nor is it somewhere in which forum rules do not apply.

Should you seek to participate in conversation related to the war, you can do so here:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack IV - Probable Case of Genocide

Continued from Part III https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack-iii.1381570/ Original Post, October 7, 2023: Israel declares state of war In response to the attacks, which appear to have caught the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) by surprise, Israel has...

www.bigfooty.com

There's also a thread on the SRP for a more robust discussion than can be permitted here:

Moved Thread - Blues mascot 'Captain Carlton' sacked after walking out of Bar Mitzvah and comments about Zionists.

Blues off to a flyer for the off season :D But surely one can criticise the actions of the IDF without being 'anti semitic' ‘Not doing this for f---ing Zios’: Captain Carlton mascot storms out of Bar Mitzvah celebration A man working as a mascot for the Carlton Football Club has stunned...

www.bigfooty.com

If you wish to participate in this thread, do so knowing that this will not be allowed to escalate beyond a point.

Thanks all!

 

[Gethelred]

The only evil is religion of ALL persuasions all throughout the history of mankind, it completely messes with everyone’s moral compass

Being atheist myself, only thing I get angry at is the performance of the sporting teams I follow and incompetent people at work…it’s a much better place to be

ideology that dehumansiers the other, whether based in relogosity or political ideolgy etc, is evil

some of the most effective mass murderers were atheists

... this is, among other things, off topic for this thread.

 

[JustaBattler]

Oh well - I'm so glad Captain Carlton stood up and walked out for the good peoples and turned hiZ baK on the evil baD peopleZ - give him a medal and make him ElpReZiDANT of CaaaarltonFC!

 

[bradfisher14]

Why is the club putting him that position in the first place?

That's a great question. It would be alarming to say the least if the club knew about the IDF fundraising part of the event.

I would love to know more about this situation, but sadly I don't think we'll get anything more than what we've already been given.

 

[Stamos]

Agree, although Israel has conscription (I don't buy all German soldiers in WW2 being Nazis, either)

Sure, but Australians shouldn't be sending money to any of these.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Did he do a few burnouts in the hovercraft as he departed?

 

[katmanblue]

I'm sorry what? You deign to know my stance on the issue? Do you also pretend to know whether or not Carlton knew the situation? It's no crime to go to a bah mitzvah. And as I was fairly clear no issue in the mascot walking out. He swore in front of children and made a scene though.... In front of children....

He can't be kept on as y'know. A mascot that is often around children...


I wasn't making a point about politics and believe all the bleeding hearts, all the voices who want to be heard on every social or global issue can say what they like. But don't imply I support genocides because a guy can't contain himself in front of kids when it's his job to often be around kids is sacked. There's not often a right or wrong. He had to go regardless of the 'bigger picture'.

The club can get stuffed for putting him in a position like it but I'm not going to use that as an excuse for the guy.

Yeah, everyone in this situation is at fault to some degree.

It's not black and white.

As I understand it, the club books the mascot for private events as part of his employment duties. This raises important questions:

• What briefing and information does the club provide to employees before sending them to private events?
• Was the employee informed in advance about the political nature of this particular event, including that it involved fundraising for military operations in an active conflict zone?
• Does the club have policies regarding employees who may have ethical objections to participating in politically-charged events?

By booking mascot appearances at events with explicit political fundraising components, particularly related to active military conflicts, the club potentially places employees in impossible positions between their employment obligations and their personal conscience.

• Should the club be accepting bookings for private events that involve political fundraising for foreign military forces?
• If the club does accept such bookings, shouldn't employees be fully informed in advance and given the option to decline based on personal beliefs?
• What protections exist for employees who find themselves in situations that conflict with their deeply held ethical positions?

 

[bmaurizio]

We’ ll never know the complete facts pertaining to this event.
Certainly one must tread very carefully as the general population are not important in these type of discourses.
The very rich and major cooperations are the ones set national and domestic policies outright. The Americans are discovering this painful reality daily.

 

[BlueLocke]

Carlton fires Captain Carlton *and delists Elijah Hollands.

Great cover for the media team.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

If he agreed with his employer that he's ok to go to a bah mitzvah for his job (while he's clearly not leaning toward that side of the issue based on the alleged language), then he's an representative of his employer.
As such, he has an obligation to uphold the reputation of the club with the customer. If he wants to take it up with them about their evilness at another time as John Q Citizen, that's his right. But while he's on the job, he should act in an appropriate manner: do the job he'd agreed to do and be civil.

 

[ferrisb]

Which of these options is antisemitic?

The last one.

Why do most people think that Israel should not exist?

Israel’s been a sovereign country since 1948. In that time, more than 75 new nations have been created. Yet no one campaigns to “dismantle” Zimbabwe or questions the right of Brunei, Pakistan, South Sudan etc to exist. So why is it that only the world’s one jewish country gets singled out for erasure?

If (proverbial) you support the self-determination of Palestinians, Kurds, Pakistanis, or South Sudanese, but deny that same right to jews, you’ve got to ask yourself why.

I mean, we can debate history - the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, the British Mandate, the Arab-Israeli wars, the green line, 1967 borders, occupation, the settlements, and Israel’s indefensible actions in Gaza and the West Bank. Those are all legit discussions. Maybe even Israel's borders should look different under a two-state solution (if that's your thing).

This isn't about the war and genocide in Gaza. Questioning Israel’s very existence isn’t a policy or historical view for most people. It’s denying the jewish people the same right to nationhood that almost every other group is granted without question. You don’t need to be a historian to see the double standard.

Most people who say jews shouldn’t have a homeland in the Middle East (that's what zionism means) - even if they don’t mean it maliciously - are expressing a form of antisemitism. It might not come from hatred, but it still applies a moral rule to jews that no one else is held to. And that’s discrimination, plain and simple.

All IMHO.

 

[ferrisb]

Carlton fires Captain Carlton *and delists Elijah Hollands.

Great cover for the media team.

F*****g listos

 

[RAPPA]

So, is this where Walsh gets the captaincy gig?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Why is the club putting him that position in the first place?

Maybe he agreed and decided it was a chance to be a hero and have his 5 seconds of fame

 

[Pablito]

F*****g listos

Nick Austin was one of my students, and if this wasn't bigfooty I'd knock your teeth out you anti-listite bastard.

 

[Stamos]

Maybe he agreed and decided it was a chance to be a hero and have his 5 seconds of fame

That's not what was suggested in the article.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

That's a great question. It would be alarming to say the least if the club knew about the IDF fundraising part of the event.

I would love to know more about this situation, but sadly I don't think we'll get anything more than what we've already been given.

Oh boy. Wait till you see where the IDF gets its bulldozers and other heavy machinery (Hyundai). Maybe the club knows.... Although it hasn't been granstanded by someone yet so nobody has cared....

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

That's not what was suggested in the article.

It's an article. I doubt the author knows either. If it was planned then nobody knows except CC. Doesn't mean much. It's important to abstain from villifying quickly in society now. The group think reactivity is strong and swift and often does not care about the nuances of life and the complexities of really old and precarious issues

 

[Stamos]

Maybe he agreed and decided it was a chance to be a hero and have his 5 seconds of fame

It's an article. I doubt the author knows either. If it was planned then nobody knows except CC. Doesn't mean much. It's important to abstain from villifying quickly in society now. The group think reactivity is strong and swift and often does not care about the nuances of life and the complexities of really old and precarious issues

There is a disconnect between these two posts.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

There is a disconnect between these two posts.

An absurdist response to highlight basic lateral thinking and a more thoughtful response. They align fine. One promotes thinking to slow down the full speed ahead lash out. One talks directly about that issue.

 

[Stamos]

An absurdist response to highlight basic lateral thinking and a more thoughtful response. They align fine. One promotes thinking to slow down the full speed ahead lash out. One talks directly about that issue.

No, your first post speculated about something that hasn't even been alleged, and your second one stated "It's important to abstain from villifying quickly in society now. The group think reactivity is strong and swift and often does not care about the nuances of life and the complexities of really old and precarious issues".

 

[Magruder]

Did he do a few burnouts in the hovercraft as he departed?

you can do burnouts on the Yarra?

 

[katmanblue]

Maybe he agreed and decided it was a chance to be a hero and have his 5 seconds of fame

Possible but more likely the club (or whoever was doing the booking) didn't consider these sorts of implications.

Was probably just booked as a date, time and nature of booking.

I doubt any further information was sought or disclosed. My thinking is that it was seen as a straight forward kids party.

Any find raising activities were probably disclosed on the day as an appeal to those in the crowd to donate. Which is when he would have been aware of this aspect.

Then CC goes off in a very emotional outbursts when being confronted with this. Can't blame him for reacting of he's got strong beliefs about it. Can blame him for going off like a pork chop.

Should the club be asking more probing questions when taking bookings? Probably.

Again, this is all supposition.

 

[Magruder]

Possible but more likely the club (or whoever was doing the booking) didn't consider these sorts of implications.

Was probably just booked as a date, time and nature of booking.

I doubt any further information was sought or disclosed. My thinking is that it was seen as a straight forward kids party.

Any find raising activities were probably disclosed on the day as an appeal to those in the crowd to donate. Which is when he would have been aware of this aspect.

Then CC goes off in a very emotional outbursts when being confronted with this. Can't blame him for reacting of he's got strong beliefs about it. Can blame him for going off like a pork chop.

Should the club be asking more probing questions when taking bookings? Probably.

Again, this is all supposition.

raw prawn would have just as kosher...

 

[Aphrodite]

FROM THE STICKIED OP :- This thread is ONLY for the discussion of the sacking of a club mascot after refusing to participate in a bar mitzvah which was allegedly sending money back to the IDF.


This thread concerns a discussion of the following:

• whether it is acceptable for the club to fire someone for taking a political stance.
• whether it is a good idea for the club to have taken a public position on this issue.

This thread is not a thread in which you should partake in expressing your political beliefs concerning the conflict, nor is it somewhere in which forum rules do not apply.

Should you wish to participate in conversation related to religious beliefs, the war and any other society, religious and political topics, TAKE IT TO THE SRP BOARD WHERE IT BELONGS:-

Society, Religion and Politics

A board for grown-ups.

www.bigfooty.com

ZERO. TOLERANCE.

 

[Magruder]

So why is it a thread on the carlton board?

seems impossible to have anything but the most anaemic discussion without touching on the validity of views on the broader subject.

It is unacceptable for the club to take a position (if you consider they have - disputable that this constitutes tacit endorsement of activities in Gaza), but it's also acceptable to dismiss an employee on the basis of offensive conduct.

Surely that's the entirety of the thread if conducted on the terms specified?