Cartledge

[_RT_]

I believe the question up the top asked whether he was a worthwhile pick up?
I can confirm the answer is no. He is back up ruckman at very best. Soft as butter and hardly touches pill except for a few hit outs.

My reply was in response to the reply below.

Absolute dud, waste of a pick......

If you and other Essendon fans think that taking a 5th choice back up ruckman with a 3rd round pick in the rookie draft, is a waste of a pick then I feel sorry for you. Cartledge will only play for Richmond in the event that 2 of the 4 ruckmen we have on the senior list are unavailable through long term injury.

 

[astro_toby]

Which is why he was a worthwhile pick up. We need a ruckmen to take the hurt if Simmonds goes down again so Putt, Graham and to a lesser extent Pattison arnt thrown into the deep end in the hardest position for young players.

i will honestly poo in Wallace's cup of soup if he selected Tristan over any of those four blokes, simmo goes down injured.

pattison is a 4th year ruckman now,

 

[Rayzorwire]

i will honestly poo in Wallace's cup of soup if he selected Tristan over any of those four blokes, simmo goes down injured.

pattison is a 4th year ruckman now,

Graham is still very raw and Putt is not even close to ready. It's pretty simple really...for most.

 

[telsor]

i will honestly poo in Wallace's cup of soup if he selected Tristan over any of those four blokes, simmo goes down injured.

pattison is a 4th year ruckman now,

Last year, Patto battled on manfully, but was stuffed after about 10 weeks.

Gus was too young/raw to even consider promoting from the rookie list until the end of the season when he got a token game.

Putt will be younger than Gus was....


OK. Worst case, Simmo goes down in the pre-season (again) and is out for the year.

Patto wont be able to play 22 games straight...He'd probably try, but it'd be better planning to give him 7-8, then a week off, back for a few more, another week off, then see out the season.

Gus *might* be up to playing off the bench, 5-10 mins a qtr, no way will he handle a full game.

So, you promote Cartledge, and he gets maybe 2-3 games as 'lead' ruckman, half a dozen more as 2nd ruck.


Not to mention, having *some* competition for the spot would be a good thing...Can't guarantee Patto's form will hold up all year, etc.


Ideally, he wont get a game and this pick will just mean that Coburg gets one of last years best VFL ruckmen playing for them all year...Which wont be a bad thing for the development of our kids anyway.


It's win/win.

 

[astro_toby]

Graham is still very raw and Putt is not even close to ready. It's pretty simple really...for most.

and Tristan is 22, proven rubbish - but had an okay season at VFL level, so he OBVIOUSLY must have improved since Essendon delisted him

Simple.... to most - if Pattison & Graham are not selected for ruck before this bloke - then Gus should never have been promoted - and pattison must have turned into a naive hack over the preseason break.

a bloody month ago people here were claiming Putt was a big bodied gun, and being compared to Kruezer

 

[astro_toby]

Ideally, he wont get a game and this pick will just mean that Coburg gets one of last years best VFL ruckmen playing for them all year...Which wont be a bad thing for the development of our kids anyway.


It's win/win.

would prefer a simmonds and patto ruck combo going in the seniors, and a Graham and Putt combo doing it for Coburg - actually using Coburg to developing our players in the positions we need them to. If Tristan plays the majority of the season at Coburg, and leaves Graham and Putt having to play out of position or off the bench - waste of a bloody reserves team.

 

[trouser snake]

would prefer a simmonds and patto ruck combo going in the seniors, and a Graham and Putt combo doing it for Coburg - actually using Coburg to developing our players in the positions we need them to. If Tristan plays the majority of the season at Coburg, and leaves Graham and Putt having to play out of position or off the bench - waste of a bloody reserves team.

Richmond have nothing to lose by getting another ruckman. At the moment we basically have Simmo and thats about it, the others are not up to it yet. Hopefully out of the other 4 hacks we can come up with something reasonable. Sick of reading the word 'develop' on this site. The game is now, so lets play!!!

 

[Rayzorwire]

and Tristan is 22, proven rubbish - but had an okay season at VFL level, so he OBVIOUSLY must have improved since Essendon delisted him

It's got nothing to do with whether he's improved or not (though you wouldn't know either way), and everything to do with not throwing players who are not ready into 1st ruck to be mauled.

Simple.... to most - if Pattison & Graham are not selected for ruck before this bloke - then Gus should never have been promoted - and pattison must have turned into a naive hack over the preseason break.

Graham's been rewarded for effort and given a senior list spot because we see him as a potential long term player. That doesn't mean next year we'll expect him to play 1st ruck if Simmonds and Pattison are injured. We'll expect him to play the supporting role he's actually capable of.

a bloody month ago people here were claiming Putt was a big bodied gun, and being compared to Kruezer

People claim all kinds of crap, that doesn't make it factual and based on reality. Neither Putt or Kreuzer will play in the ruck in their first year - just like all the ruckmen before them. It takes time before young boys are ready to be hammered by the biggest men in the league.

 

[astro_toby]

tell me any other club that uses its rookie draft as a "clever" way of recruiting mature age, below par back up players?

from what i can see, the better clubs use the rookie draft to draft, exactly that - Rookies! Priddis, Cox, Martin Clarke, eddie betts, Davey - all these guys are came from the rookie draft - because these clubs regulary use its rookie draft to take one dimensional FOOTBALLERS - who they believe can be developed.

Outside Clayton collard - i don't think any of these fella's will "shock" anyone.

rookie draft = rookies - not so so back up players

the more you trust the new youth coming in, the sooner you will realise that is the way you develop an "Exciting young list"

 

[astro_toby]

Graham's been rewarded for effort and given a senior list spot because we see him as a potential long term player. That doesn't mean next year we'll expect him to play 1st ruck if Simmonds and Pattison are injured. We'll expect him to play the supporting role he's actually capable of.

by round 1 graham will be 21, and currently weighs in at 200cm and 93kilos (and from the photos ive seen, he will weigh in well over that by round 1.

Tristan will be 23, played 7 senior games off the bench, 199cm and 93kg.

bugger all difference - age has nothing to do with it. height, weight and muscle has everything to do with your physical condition.

 

[emperor]

hey astro....at least we didn't take Guy Richards

 

[astro_toby]

hey astro....at least we didn't take Guy Richards

completely agree mate - thank god, jesus and Richo himself

i just think its a bit poor in this day and age of footy - to recruit 4 rookies aged 19, 23,23,23. so many young guns have come from the rookie draft - and we recruit guys who are anything but rookies.

 

[Crumden]

tell me any other club that uses its rookie draft as a "clever" way of recruiting mature age, below par back up players?

from what i can see, the better clubs use the rookie draft to draft, exactly that - Rookies! Priddis, Cox, Martin Clarke, eddie betts, Davey - all these guys are came from the rookie draft - because these clubs regulary use its rookie draft to take one dimensional FOOTBALLERS - who they believe can be developed.

Outside Clayton collard - i don't think any of these fella's will "shock" anyone.

rookie draft = rookies - not so so back up players

the more you trust the new youth coming in, the sooner you will realise that is the way you develop an "Exciting young list"

Don't think Davey really suits your argument Astroboy, because he isn't really in your defintion of rookie. Neither was King, or for that matter Howat the first, second or third time he was rookied. Most people still consider Davey and King to be good pick-ups through the rookie system though.

I do have some sympathy for your argument that the rookie draft isn't for picking up so so back up players. Traditionally the PSD has been for that. The Tigers could have taken Richards or Fanning in the PSD, but thankfully they didn't. So it came down to between Cartlidge and Sullivan for a rookie ruck spot. They went for Cartlidge, maybe because he was better or maybe just because he was more ready to play now. The funny thing is, if we had taken Sullivan people would have been over the moon about adding another young ruckman, even if the club had assessed him as a worse player than Cartlidge. Cartlidge was the 110th player taken in what was said to be a weak draft and Howat the 126th, so you are getting into needle in a haystack territory with those picks.

And look at it this way. Essendon drafted Cartlidge with the pick we gave them for Blumfeld. Now that we have Cartlidge, we can pretend Blumfeld was never a part of our club. Or to look at it another way, we got Blumdfeld for nothing and he repaid us tenfold.

 

[Rayzorwire]

tell me any other club that uses its rookie draft as a "clever" way of recruiting mature age, below par back up players?

How many clubs have as many youngsters on their senior list? The rookie selections balance out the senior list - except we pay less for the security of having them. You can't complain for weeks about the prospect of getting Richards, then complain about us paying less for a similar insurance policy at lesser cost and adding a very good junior prospect instead.

from what i can see, the better clubs use the rookie draft to draft, exactly that - Rookies!

The better clubs have a lot of senior experience and depth on their senior list. We're not at that point - yet.

Outside Clayton collard - i don't think any of these fella's will "shock" anyone.

I tend to agree, but don't forget we only had similar expectations of Jake King. Given how he has worked out, I think we can cut the recruiting staff some slack until we've actually seen how these blokes can improve.

by round 1 graham will be 21, and currently weighs in at 200cm and 93kilos (and from the photos ive seen, he will weigh in well over that by round 1.

Tristan will be 23, played 7 senior games off the bench, 199cm and 93kg.

bugger all difference - age has nothing to do with it.

Age and experience mean a lot when it comes to the differences between a 21 and a 23yo ruckman. Cartledge is well worth the price paid when it means Graham can have another year to build himself up further and gain more confidence - rather than being smashed (physically and literally) by the opposition 1st ruckman...and that's before we get into him not having the fitness base to keep up around the ground on a topline ruckman.

The bottom line is that neither Graham or Putt are ready to step into the breach as a 1st ruckman if Simmo and Pattison go down. To have another option for the price of a rookie spot is smart list management.

 

[tiger trooper]

ACL for the bronlow mate... would be getting huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge odds XD

 

[Punt Road Feral]

Thats because midfielders only win in most recent times.

 

[Weaver]

The bottom line is that neither Graham or Putt are ready to step into the breach as a 1st ruckman if Simmo and Pattison go down. To have another option for the price of a rookie spot is smart list management.

The bottom line is that Graham has never played a decent game of footy for Coburg. Even without ruckmen for most of last season the club refused to promote him going with Tuck instead.

He got some encouragement games at the end of the season and promoted because of his workrate.

In contrast while Graham could not find the footy in the VFL - Cartledge was the dominant ruckman for most of the first half of the season.

People can umm and ahh and speculate, but Cartledge is ahead of Graham and by a fair margin.

If Pattison or Simmonds get an 8 week injury. Cartledge will be promoted and play ahead of Graham.

If Ronaldson re-signs with Coburg - he and Cartledge will be an awesome ruck duo and Graham might get shunted back to the reserves.

 

[MrMalteser]

well said weaver well said

 

[Punt Road Feral]

Weaver i know how you said Gus hasn't dominated a game at VFL but in the Herald Sun on mondays it wasn't unusual to see Graham as 5th best player.

 

[RoscoeTheDawg]

As much as I respect the majority of your posts and enjoy them Weaver, stating Angus Graham hasn't even had a decent game at VFL level is not correct, I have watched at least 4 matches with Angus being above decent but also others have rated him (with Graham featuring in the best in the Herald Sun and Coburg Tigers website in match write ups etc)...

 

[Rayzorwire]

If Ronaldson re-signs with Coburg - he and Cartledge will be an awesome ruck duo and Graham might get shunted back to the reserves.

Or we can play Ronaldson as a human wrecking ball ruck rover.

 

[polakthetiger]

If Pattison or Simmonds get an 8 week injury. Cartledge will be promoted and play ahead of Graham.

If Ronaldson re-signs with Coburg - he and Cartledge will be an awesome ruck duo and Graham might get shunted back to the reserves.

Isn't Graham already on the list? Were we that worried that someone was going to steal him?

 

[Saturday@2]

tell me any other club that uses its rookie draft as a "clever" way of recruiting mature age, below par back up players?

from what i can see, the better clubs use the rookie draft to draft, exactly that - Rookies! Priddis, Cox, Martin Clarke, eddie betts, Davey - all these guys are came from the rookie draft - because these clubs regulary use its rookie draft to take one dimensional FOOTBALLERS - who they believe can be developed.

Priddis was 21 when rookied. Davey was 20 when he was rookied, so yes other clubs do use the rookie draft to pick up mature age "back-up" players. And before you jump up and down saying Priddis and Davey weren't back-up, they certainly weren't look at as guns when they were drafted. I'm sure this time last year you were decrying the drafting of Jake King, you know that guy that last year you thought was a mature aged back-up player.

 

[Wally Matera]

Ok, here's my take on this selection...

Simmonds and Pattison are first choice....

We then have Putt, Graham and Cartledge putting pressure on each other to make the grade. I dont want Putt and Graham in the firsts without competition in the ressies... having Cartlege in the 2nds forces them both to deserve a spot. If one of the other 2 go down, it doesnt give them a free ride to a game.

Good move and much better than Richards who would only have been picked purely on experience, where Cartledge has only age to beat Putt/Graham.

I know, l know... you can turn anything into a positive.

 

[Croat tiger]

hey astro....at least we didn't take Guy Richards

Amen to that brother.