Ceglar

[Piesinmyeyes]

With our current ruck issues as a support mechanism for Jolly, little surprising to see he hasn't been given at least one opportunity throughout the year.
Although not blessed with strength at the moment, however needs an experience at top level and Wood offers absolutely nothing so worth some try.
Dawes has been crucified being shifted around as i believe he doesnt have enough general pace and therefore once put back in the forward line is used up to a point where he can't maximise?
Thoughts.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

MM would've picked Wood, good to see Bucks trying something different.

 

[mattys123]

To be fair, Ceglar hasn't deserved a game up until the last few weeks. His VFL form was patchy a best, and it's only been the last 5-6 weeks where he's really put his name up for senior selection at all.

Bucks' has said all along that you will earn your senior selection (unless your name is Cam Wood), so it's no shock that neither Witts of Ceglar have got a game yet.

Also, their development has been delayed a little thanks to Wood and Shae Mac taking some of the ruck duties throughout the year at VFL level, if we really want to develop Witts and Ceglar, it's time to delist Wood.

 

[MegaBob]

I don't get the opportunity to watch VFL so I'm a bit out of the loop with this, but out of Ceglar and Witts, who is more ahead at the moment? Are they both dedicated rucks or can they be forwards as well?

 

[Busse]

I don't get the opportunity to watch VFL so I'm a bit out of the loop with this, but out of Ceglar and Witts, who is more ahead at the moment? Are they both dedicated rucks or can they be forwards as well?

In the ruck contest id say Witts, due to his ability to follow up and put his head over the ball and Ceglar more forward has he has strong hands, id pick Ceglar IMO he is more ready.

 

[Jelly Bean]

In the ruck contest id say Witts, due to his ability to follow up and put his head over the ball and Ceglar more forward has he has strong hands, id pick Ceglar IMO he is more ready.

Ceglar is a far better hit out ruckman than Witts, and I think a better forward as well. He is a bit lighter though, at this stage. Ceglar will get games next year as a second ruck / tall forward, and for this role he is in front of Witts comfortably...

 

[Scodog10]

I don't get the opportunity to watch VFL so I'm a bit out of the loop with this, but out of Ceglar and Witts, who is more ahead at the moment? Are they both dedicated rucks or can they be forwards as well?

They're both at similar stages so it all comes down to personal preference. For mine I'd have Witts marginally in front at this stage because he has more of the traits I look for in a ruckman such as the ability to butter up at the contest, size, ball winning and most importantly mongrel. However his weaknesses seem to be Ceglar's strengths (hit out efficiency and marking) and vice versa which again makes it understandable if others prefer Ceglar.

 

[soreplums]

If they look further into the tactics that the hawks used against west coast, we will need a ruckman who can jump at the centre bounces. Can ceglar jump? I haven't seen any of him

 

[Busse]

Ceglar is a far better hit out ruckman than Witts, and I think a better forward as well. He is a bit lighter though, at this stage. Ceglar will get games next year as a second ruck / tall forward, and for this role he is in front of Witts comfortably...

i just rather Witts in the ruck due to his second efforts he goes, very hard at it and that is something you see in good ruckman.

 

[Frankie23]

We learnt our lesson the hard way with Fraser, ruining his career by throwing him into the ruck at a young age.

Let Ceglar and Witts take as long as they need...

 

[The 10th Letter]

At this point, of the two I would lean towards Ceglar due to currently being the more rounded footballer. Witts has the advantage in natural size where as Ceglar is still light on, but in terms of nous and ability to play forward/ruck, Ceglar is just ahead at the moment -- which is understandable given their backgrounds.

Ceglar's tap work is superior, he reads the ball well in the air at ruck contests and is probably the only ruck currently on our list who is capable of getting above-average elevation. He gets off the ground where Witts is almost always rooted to the Earth, which too often nullifies his height advantage both in the ruck and marking contests.

As a forward, Ceglar has a bit more knowledge when it comes to timing leads and his ability to get off the ground also means that he can make more of said leads. Despite lacking size, he's not shy of flying and crashing a pack. For reasons likely related to endurance and general knowledge of our setups, he would get stuck in between play a lot last year. In the second half of this VFL season though his work rate lifted noticeably and he often provided repeat searching leads up the ground.

Where Witts certainly has the upper hand is his level of aggression at ground level, he actually uses his size and is able to influence the scrum that often forms at stoppages. Witts will play senior football, but he does need to work on the finer points of the craft both forward and in the ruck. In marking contests he likes to engage his opponent and try to take it on the chest, but is often outpointed or gives much smaller opponents a chance to spoil. In the ruck, particularly at centre bounces, he gets jumped over a lot and also struggles when reading the flight of the incoming ball. If he can improve in this area and start extending to mark overhead, he'll start justifying our excitement as to his size.

For mine, the development of both players suffered this year due to us having to carry so many ruck sized players at VFL level. We barely worked on Ceglar's ruck game and the substandard and haphazard ball movement at VFL level made it tough for both players when starting forward. I personally don't feel either were quite ready for senior time this year, but given the form of Dawes and some soft kills against GWS and Gold Coast, I would have thrown Ceglar into the mix for a game regardless. He was given time during the NAB Cup and I felt he showed some good signs, was surprised he never got a look in at any stage during the year.

 

[Jelly Bean]

At this point, of the two I would lean towards Ceglar due to currently being the more rounded footballer. Witts has the advantage in natural size where as Ceglar is still light on, but in terms of nous and ability to play forward/ruck, Ceglar is just ahead at the moment -- which is understandable given their backgrounds.

Ceglar's tap work is superior, he reads the ball well in the air at ruck contests and is probably the only ruck currently on our list who is capable of getting above-average elevation. He gets off the ground where Witts is almost always rooted to the Earth, which too often nullifies his height advantage both in the ruck and marking contests.

As a forward, Ceglar has a bit more knowledge when it comes to timing leads and his ability to get off the ground also means that he can make more of said leads. Despite lacking size, he's not shy of flying and crashing a pack. For reasons likely related to endurance and general knowledge of our setups, he would get stuck in between play a lot last year. In the second half of this VFL season though his work rate lifted noticeably and he often provided repeat searching leads up the ground.

Where Witts certainly has the upper hand is his level of aggression at ground level, he actually uses his size and is able to influence the scrum that often forms at stoppages. Witts will play senior football, but he does need to work on the finer points of the craft both forward and in the ruck. In marking contests he likes to engage his opponent and try to take it on the chest, but is often outpointed or gives much smaller opponents a chance to spoil. In the ruck, particularly at centre bounces, he gets jumped over a lot and also struggles when reading the flight of the incoming ball. If he can improve in this area and start extending to mark overhead, he'll start justifying our excitement as to his size.

For mine, the development of both players suffered this year due to us having to carry so many ruck sized players at VFL level. We barely worked on Ceglar's ruck game and the substandard and haphazard ball movement at VFL level made it tough for both players when starting forward. I personally don't feel either were quite ready for senior time this year, but given the form of Dawes and some soft kills against GWS and Gold Coast, I would have thrown Ceglar into the mix for a game regardless. He was given time during the NAB Cup and I felt he showed some good signs, was surprised he never got a look in at any stage during the year.

This is a very good post, and I agree with pretty much all of it.

Witts is still not good body on body (despite having height and weight advantage) and often gets beaten in boundary ruck contests and marking contests. This is a big area of his game that he needs to work on. I think it is about agility as much as anything else, as his opposition tends to get the first few steps to the fall of the ball, whereas Witts is a metre behind, and therefore outpositioned.

I feel we need more dedicated coaching on ruckwork and body work for these two players from a big strong ruckman-type... Anyone got Ottens' number?

 

[Number 10]

At this point, of the two I would lean towards Ceglar due to currently being the more rounded footballer. Witts has the advantage in natural size where as Ceglar is still light on, but in terms of nous and ability to play forward/ruck, Ceglar is just ahead at the moment -- which is understandable given their backgrounds.

Ceglar's tap work is superior, he reads the ball well in the air at ruck contests and is probably the only ruck currently on our list who is capable of getting above-average elevation. He gets off the ground where Witts is almost always rooted to the Earth, which too often nullifies his height advantage both in the ruck and marking contests.

As a forward, Ceglar has a bit more knowledge when it comes to timing leads and his ability to get off the ground also means that he can make more of said leads. Despite lacking size, he's not shy of flying and crashing a pack. For reasons likely related to endurance and general knowledge of our setups, he would get stuck in between play a lot last year. In the second half of this VFL season though his work rate lifted noticeably and he often provided repeat searching leads up the ground.

Where Witts certainly has the upper hand is his level of aggression at ground level, he actually uses his size and is able to influence the scrum that often forms at stoppages. Witts will play senior football, but he does need to work on the finer points of the craft both forward and in the ruck. In marking contests he likes to engage his opponent and try to take it on the chest, but is often outpointed or gives much smaller opponents a chance to spoil. In the ruck, particularly at centre bounces, he gets jumped over a lot and also struggles when reading the flight of the incoming ball. If he can improve in this area and start extending to mark overhead, he'll start justifying our excitement as to his size.

For mine, the development of both players suffered this year due to us having to carry so many ruck sized players at VFL level. We barely worked on Ceglar's ruck game and the substandard and haphazard ball movement at VFL level made it tough for both players when starting forward. I personally don't feel either were quite ready for senior time this year, but given the form of Dawes and some soft kills against GWS and Gold Coast, I would have thrown Ceglar into the mix for a game regardless. He was given time during the NAB Cup and I felt he showed some good signs, was surprised he never got a look in at any stage during the year.

Hey mate where have ur vfl reviews gone to?

 

[soreplums]

This is a very good post, and I agree with pretty much all of it.

Witts is still not good body on body (despite having height and weight advantage) and often gets beaten in boundary ruck contests and marking contests. This is a big area of his game that he needs to work on. I think it is about agility as much as anything else, as his opposition tends to get the first few steps to the fall of the ball, whereas Witts is a metre behind, and therefore outpositioned.

I feel we need more dedicated coaching on ruckwork and body work for these two players from a big strong ruckman-type... Anyone got Ottens' number?

I'm sure we have monkey's number

 

[The 10th Letter]

Hey mate where have ur vfl reviews gone to?

Hey Number 10, I missed a couple of games at the tail end of the season due to other commitments, but there may have been a couple of reviews also amongst the run home that I wrote but didn't link to on this forum.

I'll be doing something of a wrap of the year at some stage in coming weeks, likely not to be pleasant reading for the most part, unsurprisingly.

 

[Number 10]

Hey Number 10, I missed a couple of games at the tail end of the season due to other commitments, but there may have been a couple of reviews also amongst the run home that I wrote but didn't link to on this forum.

I'll be doing something of a wrap of the year at some stage in coming weeks, likely not to be pleasant reading for the most part, unsurprisingly.

Great, looking forward to it. Always such a good read. Next season you aren't allowed any other commitments...
I had a look on ur blog a few weeks ago but might need to have another look tomorrow.
Cheers