Chris Woakes

[ROSEMVP]

loan system could work for say 10 game stints.

 

[The Passenger]

i reckon monthly is the go. if i was an 18 year old cricketer who was trying to crack it and i got offered to go live for a month or two in Perth with accommodation sorted.... man i'd be all over that.

 

[roodav]

tbh I'm yet to be that overblown by Woakes and Harris. They seem to be excellent cricketers but I'm not sure their bowling is going to quite reach the level required for test cricket in particular. Both could do with putting on a yard of pace. Neither will rely on pace for their wickets but at the moment they might just be too slow.

Two who have impressed me when i've seen them are Nathan Buck and Matt Dunn. Buck took nearly 50 wickets last year at 27 in his first full year and Dunn should play a lot more for Surrey this year, both are bowling in the high 80's

 

[eddiesmith]

Cue all the old arguments about bowling too much, playing same-old, same-old cricket day after day on the county scene.

While plenty of Aus batsmen have gone to county cricket for experience, not too many young bowlers have.

If playing lots of matches early is the key, why didn't it work for the poms in the last 20 years?

Good players will succeed in either format - Shield or County.

A few bowlers have gone over there but generally you dont know about it because they are at lower levels, with just 1 International player allowed now there is alot more demand for a quality batsman given the County Game is really based around making big scores and teams dont want to waste an international players spot on a bowler

 

[nineteen eighty]

By comparison, our young fast bowling prospects of a similar age in Hazlewood, Pattinson and Starc have played 6, 4 and 11 first class matches respectively. Yes, they've all had injuries, but it does show you the advantages of the English system in some respects.

Cue all the old arguments about bowling too much, playing same-old, same-old cricket day after day on the county scene.

While plenty of Aus batsmen have gone to county cricket for experience, not too many young bowlers have.

If playing lots of matches early is the key, why didn't it work for the poms in the last 20 years?

Good players will succeed in either format - Shield or County.

Agreed Wallaby. However the Poms have raised the bar as they are not just playing their kids but they are DEVELOPING them. Their bowlers are actually spending time away from their counties and with bowling coaches within their high performance unit.

Wow, they are very impressive stats for both Harris and Woakes. Seems the English are developing their kids far quicker and with a much higher regularity than we are in Australia. The amount of quality fast bowler they played in the ashes and seem to have in reserve is quite ridiculous. I suggest we find out what they're doing and improve our system accordingly. Unfortunately there's not going to be a quick fix but the sooner we review and improve our whole system the better.

I would argue that the Poms copied us in setting up their high performance unit. We have had CA's AIS Centre of Excellence for years with Troy Cooley taking on head coach role soon. Greg Chappell was previous coach (cue the knockers). Either way, it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe they need to restructure the way the CoE interacts with the various states and works with them rather than looking to pull kids out for extended periods. They go there as kids and leave by the time they are late teens / early 20's (as soon as they get selected for their state) and then it seems like there is little SPECIFIC coaching from there. This to me is where we are falling down in our coaching of the kids.

 

[Grimwood]

tbh I'm yet to be that overblown by Woakes and Harris. They seem to be excellent cricketers but I'm not sure their bowling is going to quite reach the level required for test cricket in particular. Both could do with putting on a yard of pace. Neither will rely on pace for their wickets but at the moment they might just be too slow.

Harris, to my eye, has nothing to worry about. He's got Jimmy Anderson's height and build, and a wonderfully smooth action that allows him to get close in to the stumps and bowl accurately.

I'm surprised that Woakes is ahead of him to be honest, but I guess England spotted the grit and attitude that got England home tonight.

 

[sydney_crow]

Harris' record is VERY impressive for a 20 year old, Div 2 or not. Has played plenty of cricket too, so it doesn't seem that his body is giving him troubles. Why can't the promising young Australian quicks stay on the park?

I notice from his bio that his nickname is Rolf...that's surely gotta be enough to qualify to get a game for Australia

 

[Grimwood]

I don't think Australia need to do much more than keep their young bowlers fit. Hazlewood and Pattinson in particular look to have some quality; it's just that little bit of craft that you only get through bowling plenty of overs in a match situation that will elude them if they keep getting injured.

I would say that there's nothing that CA can do, but as we saw with Hazlewood, they could start by diagnosing their injuries properly.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

They are going through a personnel slump, it happens. They'll be right. If something systematic needs to be fixed, then address it. In the mean time, players are wasting away in the 2nd XIs of NSW and Victoria, when they should be playing FC cricket. They are good enough.

The Warriors have been a basket case for years. That's some slump.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

The Warriors have been a basket case for years. That's some slump.

Redbacks haven't been much better, either.

 

[Tazwegian]

21 years old

46 FC matches

154 wickets @ 25

I know county is not as traditionally as strong as shield, but I think that really highlights the difference between current state of English and Australian cricket

That is almost three full seasons of country cricket at the age of 21. Not bad.

 

[Nugget1985]

Ok, and has playing regular county matches meant he has developed quicker? (I guess the answer would be yes). So is the solution in Australia to add another domestic team? Canberra, would be my suggestion, allowing them the pick of the 2nd XI players and any others looking for a regular game to start their team. Does their need to be a rule in the sheffield shield which means teams have to play a certain amount of young players? Or is the system that is currently in place that has been successful for so long the right one and i'm just overreacting to a poor period in Australian cricket?

Clearly I've got alot of questions in the above ramblings and not many answers.

Everyone knows thats what South Australia is used for at the moment

 

[nineteen eighty]

i reckon monthly is the go. if i was an 18 year old cricketer who was trying to crack it and i got offered to go live for a month or two in Perth with accommodation sorted.... man i'd be all over that.

As would I. Spent a month in Perth in my younger days just after I got married and suffice to say, I'm now single

Perth women / chicks rock!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jolldo87]

Absolutely. I'd love for FC cricket to be 5 day matches as well, to help in the development of spinners. Won't happen though. Damn logistics.

Although, now I think of it, and relating to my post above in response to ROSEMVP, perhaps 7 teams could work, given that the Shield season isn't structured in a strictly round-by-round fashion. Perhaps we could have 7 teams, and play 9 5-day matches (play three teams once, three teams twice). More would be ideal but it would never happen. That actually equates to more days of cricket, would encourage more "Test-like" batting throughout the match, and would give more encouragement to spinners, who I feel suffer greatly from not having a 5th day, especially in Australian conditions.

Yeah that could definitely work. I like the idea of 5-day cricket. It would also force the batsmen to bat for longer and not go the hit in the aim of conjuring up an outright result.

dont think an NT team would ever work, isnt it wet season during summer there?

Yep. The only way it could work is if they played every game away from home which wouldn't really make any sense.

 

[The_Reaper]

why not?

they do it well enough in england. you can start the season in september and play games in regional areas.

i would love to see teams use smaller grounds for example

Bulls @ Alan Border Field
Blues @ North Sydney Over
Bushrangers @ Junction Oval

Ideally we would have 8 australian teams.

An ACT or Newcastle team with access to country NSW.
and a Geelong/Ballarat/Bendigo for country VIC.

In the short term this will lower standards but in the long run it will lead to an easier pathway for young sportsmen to have a cricket career so hopefully more will pick cricket over other sports.

Since they want 8 teams in the Big Bash, these new shield teams can first be introduced through the Big Bash and by a reduced shield season.

 

[The_Reaper]

The Warriors have been a basket case for years. That's some slump.

It's a discipline problem as well as an AFL problem.
very similar to SA, except that we're marginally better due to a larger population.

Another issue is that our regional towns are too small to have decent cricket competitions, so very little players come from country WA.

Compare this to Victoria, NSW and QLD (especially NSW) which have several players from regional areas.

 

[JimDocker]

Chris Woakes was very impressive. Very calm in a difficult situation. The match highlight for me was Tait giving him a mouthfull then being hooked for 6 next ball.

As a Pom, I cannot believe that England seems to be producing so many quality youngsters while Australia is struggling. We have learnt from the best with Australia's academy system and have had in place a long term plan. Not sure what has happened with Australia's academy and also why so many young Australian players are so injury prone. That must be a huge problem.

I know why BF posters are wanting James Harris in the squad. So in 2 years time they can say " He is Welsh, not even a Pom - not fair - blah blah blah ....."

 

[Parquet Court]

dont want to sound like a dampener but playing county cricket and bowling in generally seam friendly conditions is quite easy to knock up numbers like that, playing an early season game in durham or glamorgan on a green top and low clouds should make it easier for the bowlers, esp. in divvy 2

 

[Santana]

Chris Woakes was very impressive. Very calm in a difficult situation. The match highlight for me was Tait giving him a mouthfull then being hooked for 6 next ball.

As a Pom, I cannot believe that England seems to be producing so many quality youngsters while Australia is struggling. We have learnt from the best with Australia's academy system and have had in place a long term plan. Not sure what has happened with Australia's academy and also why so many young Australian players are so injury prone. That must be a huge problem.

I know why BF posters are wanting James Harris in the squad. So in 2 years time they can say " He is Welsh, not even a Pom - not fair - blah blah blah ....."

Says who?

 

[Phone]

yeah we're not struggling youth wise. it's the 26-31 bracket that's empty.

(wait am i on the essendon board or the cricket board.........)

 

[Mego Red]

The Poms have been terrible For 25 years, right?

 

[Mr P@H]

dont want to sound like a dampener but playing county cricket and bowling in generally seam friendly conditions is quite easy to knock up numbers like that, playing an early season game in durham or glamorgan on a green top and low clouds should make it easier for the bowlers, esp. in divvy 2

10 years ago that was correct, now pitches are not as great for bowling, alot depends on overhead conditions. Pitches will get much harder and difficult to get wickets later in the season. Woakes numbers won't get him in the test side but it's a nice start.

I'm pleased that England have some decent bowlers coming through at last and i think Englands form in 04-05 has something to with it, seeing Flintoff, SiJones, GBH and Hoggard bowl the way they did in that period must inspire young bowlers to work that extra bit hard.

 

[The_Reaper]

10 years ago that was correct, now pitches are not as great for bowling, alot depends on overhead conditions. Pitches will get much harder and difficult to get wickets later in the season. Woakes numbers won't get him in the test side but it's a nice start.

I'm pleased that England have some decent bowlers coming through at last and i think Englands form in 04-05 has something to with it, seeing Flintoff, SiJones, GBH and Hoggard bowl the way they did in that period must inspire young bowlers to work that extra bit hard.

Australia also has very significant talent in the 17-22 range.
It's just that because of the shield system and the strength of the shield teams, or in South Australia's case-reliance on interstate players, that they haven't got any oportunities yet.

Victoria who are historically the second strongest state are particularly guilty of this.